Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

JoanofArgh

(14,971 posts)
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 06:35 PM Aug 2021

Lake Mead -the nation's largest water reservoir - is only at 40% capacity



?s=20


Lake Mead - the nation’s largest reservoir - is at only 40% capacity, triggering a declaration of water shortage for the first time ever.

Arizona will lose 18% of its annual water apportionment and Nevada will lose 7%.
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Lake Mead -the nation's largest water reservoir - is only at 40% capacity (Original Post) JoanofArgh Aug 2021 OP
Fortunately our country is at the forefront of fighting this crisis by Carlitos Brigante Aug 2021 #1
On state and municipal scales, all who depend on this particular Hortensis Aug 2021 #22
That is all well and good. But these systems don't function in a Carlitos Brigante Aug 2021 #23
:) As we hurt more, we object more? Hortensis Aug 2021 #42
Thanks, Hortensis Hekate Aug 2021 #33
+1 dalton99a Aug 2021 #24
Lake Mead VGNonly Aug 2021 #2
It's not even that - it's 34.84% as of yesterday . . . hatrack Aug 2021 #3
Lake Powell has lost VGNonly Aug 2021 #18
Add to that the 10% of its design capacity it's permanently lost to silt . . . hatrack Aug 2021 #21
Time to STOP growing Almonds and Rice in the desert. WarGamer Aug 2021 #4
And showering in NV, AZ & CA. maxsolomon Aug 2021 #5
If you look at the data on Almonds and Rice... WarGamer Aug 2021 #6
I've been boycotting almonds and... Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2021 #8
95% of Californias rice VGNonly Aug 2021 #19
Shouldn't "water abundant" areas of California share water for HUMANS in SoCal? WarGamer Aug 2021 #26
Then pull all meat/dairy VGNonly Aug 2021 #30
Like I said... WarGamer Aug 2021 #37
I think more humans need to leave California Hekate Aug 2021 #34
Fine with me. WarGamer Aug 2021 #35
Ya gotta eat something to survive. What do you thing we should grow to eat? Algae? Yummm. Hekate Aug 2021 #36
No, just grow crops where the conditions permit. WarGamer Aug 2021 #39
Doing that requires a strict reduction in human population, I think. But I'm sure you can Hekate Aug 2021 #40
Actually reducing Californias water allocation to agriculture... WarGamer Aug 2021 #41
No its not. former9thward Aug 2021 #13
Agriculture contributes $23 billion and 130,000 jobs to AZ NickB79 Aug 2021 #27
AZ only gets 18% of the Hoover dam output. former9thward Aug 2021 #28
But wait! There's more! wackadoo wabbit Aug 2021 #7
Hoover Dam serves 1.3 million people according to the federal government. former9thward Aug 2021 #29
That's actually not what your link says; and, anyway, this is ultimately just different ways wackadoo wabbit Aug 2021 #31
We have so much water in Ohio that my kids couldn't swim in Erie as the water is too high. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #9
Every 8 inches of extra water level in the Great Lakes... Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2021 #10
I know. People here feel that our water would be drained without the compact. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #14
Wait a few decades, with Climate Change the upper Midwest will gain a new growing season. WarGamer Aug 2021 #38
Same in NC. Aug- Sept is usually dry here but we've been getting lots of rain. JoanofArgh Aug 2021 #11
I hear the tropical storm is coming your way...more rain in Ohio today too. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #15
You too! JoanofArgh Aug 2021 #17
There is a good article in this week's New Yorker about Lake Powell Buckeyeblue Aug 2021 #12
Last time Lake Mead was at full capacity Bill Clinton was president (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Aug 2021 #16
Maybe we shouldn't populate cities in the desert. Probably shouldn't farm there either. marie999 Aug 2021 #20
Many fruits and vegetables sold in the U.S.A. come from land irrigated by the Colorado River... hunter Aug 2021 #25
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2021 #32

Carlitos Brigante

(26,500 posts)
1. Fortunately our country is at the forefront of fighting this crisis by
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 06:37 PM
Aug 2021

still arguing whether it's real or not. Instead of actually doing Jack shit about it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. On state and municipal scales, all who depend on this particular
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 08:21 AM
Aug 2021

water supply have been aware for a very long time that it would eventually be gone. It's not what you're talking about, but those responsible for keeping the water flowing so their regions don't die have been doing some of the jack shit they had the power and authority to do.

They've taken a whole range of steps over the decades to maximize the water they could get while it was there, from constructing giant tunnels drawing from the bottom of Lake Mead, to much more sophisticated plans for what comes next.

Those who have the authority to do a partial job have been dealing with a very imperfect situation, in of course imperfect ways, to meet their responsibilities to very imperfect "the people" who've been ignoring and refusing their responsibility all their lives.

Carlitos Brigante

(26,500 posts)
23. That is all well and good. But these systems don't function in a
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 09:37 AM
Aug 2021

vacuum. These are interconnected. And the reality is our institutions have failed to address climate change in the macro. The 2000s were pretty much time wasted, which we won't get back. The last 4 years were also a complete waste at the highest levels. Local institutions have to do what they have to do. But if this isn't treated holistically, we're pretty much fucked. We're way behind on this and the fact that large swaths of our population need this explained to them again and again, like they're infants. Keeps us from moving forward. If one can't even agree on obvious reality. How exactly is this going to be addressed?

So, right back at 'cha.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
42. :) As we hurt more, we object more?
Wed Aug 18, 2021, 12:15 PM
Aug 2021

What you say is all so true, of course. We can't get around the reality that THE BIG WE, the electorate, are by far the biggest, controlling institution, the one that creates and empowers, or disempowers and destroys, all other institutions.

Baked into the problem of us is that democracies almost always let problems go until enough of us feel enough pain to start objecting. But we've fucked ourselves huge, not just pretty much, by this perfect storm of massive social dysfunction and climate crisis.

I have a lot more faith at this point in the judgement and willingness of people overall in our subordinate institutions to do what needs to be done than in the electorate overall. The right's been voting for decades to keep our institutions from doing their job properly and electing increasingly extremist anti-government politicians. Opposition has crippled much government action, a vacuum of leadership causing private industry to take some actions and also research solutions.

But among our resources, we've always had better people than we bothered to look for running our institutions because those fields tend to draw people who care about them. Real needs have also set much firmer, though low, limits on the take of corruption than citizens typically bother to; when the lights or water go off and stay off, the electorate starts caring BIG time. Many people have big plans and are eager to leap to them, once we let them. Also we do have much of the planet's most advanced private institutional resources.

And above all unfocused and unused electoral resources on the left. Look at the people we've known over the past 30 years who won't leave a faucet running wastefully and we probably have a fair estimation of how many have been conscientiously voting water and climate responsibility. We could always have been a far more powerful force. We still can and will need to be.

At this point the right seems to have decided that surrender to climate devastation, insisting that nothing can or should be done, is their best way to still "win" their insane factional war. But that's at least movement, and when it's their own asses on fire, there's going to be more movement. And when it's our own asses on fire, more of us are finally going to develop the conviction to vote for what needs to be done.

Anyway, that's my best prediction for how we're going to address this. We're in a godawful mess, fucked for life, but not without resources. "Optimism" 2021 style.

VGNonly

(7,486 posts)
2. Lake Mead
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 07:14 PM
Aug 2021

The situation will likely get far worse when Lake Powell becomes a "dead pool". That is when available precipitation does not compensate for evaporative losses.

hatrack

(59,583 posts)
3. It's not even that - it's 34.84% as of yesterday . . .
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 07:51 PM
Aug 2021
http://lakemead.water-data.com/

Powell's at 31.55%:

http://lakepowell.water-data.com/

Powell's currently at 3551 feet (it's full at 3700 feet); minimum power pool is 3490 and dead pool is 3370. Dead pool is when the reservoir falls so low that even the lowest release system (the river outlets) are above the water level.

With no increase in reservoir level likely before April or May of 2022, the odds are decent that there's another 30' or so for Powell to fall, though USBR runs a range of water-year minimum projections.

https://qcnr.usu.edu/coloradoriver/files/FillMeadFirst_Exec_Summary.pdf

VGNonly

(7,486 posts)
18. Lake Powell has lost
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 11:35 PM
Aug 2021

more than 50 feet of water in the last year. It may need to be shutdown to spillway level to keep Lake Mead viable. Lake "Foul" should never have been built.

hatrack

(59,583 posts)
21. Add to that the 10% of its design capacity it's permanently lost to silt . . .
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 07:29 AM
Aug 2021

Powell had 27 million acre-feet at construction; it has 24.3 million acre-feet now.

Mead had 32 million care-feet capacity at construction; it has 25.9 million acre-feet now.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
6. If you look at the data on Almonds and Rice...
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:22 PM
Aug 2021

Those TWO crops use more than 10% of all agricultural water in California.

So... 80% of ALL WATER used in California is Agricultural Water.

So EVERYTHING ELSE including sewer, sanitation, landscaping and human use is 20%.

Thus Almonds and Rice combined probably use MORE water than humans in the State use to drink and shower combined.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
8. I've been boycotting almonds and...
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:02 PM
Aug 2021

... other nuts for awhile because they need so much water, yet they're often grown in dry California!

Seeds require much less water than nuts, as agricultural products, and they're nutritionally similar.

If I buy rice, it's "Asian Best" which is grown in Thailand... a place that actually gets plenty of rain!

It's great that places like California and Arizona get lots of sunshine to efficiently grow some of the "thirsty" agricultural products like alfalfa, but it's past time for the people in those places to realize there's just not enough water for such things.

VGNonly

(7,486 posts)
19. 95% of Californias rice
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 12:09 AM
Aug 2021

comes from the Sacramento Valley and adjacent water abundant areas, which is not desert. California only produces less than 20% of US rice production, most of it in Arkansas.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
26. Shouldn't "water abundant" areas of California share water for HUMANS in SoCal?
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 03:32 PM
Aug 2021

Rather than draining aquifers and the Colorado River/Lake Mead?

Obviously Big Ag pulls the strings in gov't

VGNonly

(7,486 posts)
30. Then pull all meat/dairy
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 05:20 PM
Aug 2021

production in California, they'll have plenty of water. The average US person uses 1500 gallons of water daily in a meat/dairy situation, only about 450 gallons for vegans.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
37. Like I said...
Wed Aug 18, 2021, 02:10 AM
Aug 2021

80% of ALL water used in California is used by Agriculture.

Think about it... why grow Rice in California when Arkansas is the #1 rice growing State?

Look at a map. Tell me the difference between Arkansas and California. Use Google Maps, you'll see that Arkansas is basically covered in water. California is not.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
39. No, just grow crops where the conditions permit.
Wed Aug 18, 2021, 02:15 AM
Aug 2021

Like I said... rice is #1 in Arkansas because they have fertile soil and lots of water.

Maybe the South can be reinvigorated by increased agriculture? The Mississippi Delta is perfect, has been for centuries. PLUS it's an impoverished area, might be good for it.

Hekate

(90,643 posts)
40. Doing that requires a strict reduction in human population, I think. But I'm sure you can
Wed Aug 18, 2021, 02:16 AM
Aug 2021

…game that out.


WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
41. Actually reducing Californias water allocation to agriculture...
Wed Aug 18, 2021, 02:18 AM
Aug 2021

Would give more water to humans and landscaping, etc...

former9thward

(31,980 posts)
13. No its not.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:59 PM
Aug 2021

The cities have no water issues in AZ. Farmers will face issues but that is it. They send food to the east coast. That will probably have to be curtailed.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
27. Agriculture contributes $23 billion and 130,000 jobs to AZ
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 04:50 PM
Aug 2021

That's almost 10% of the state's GDP, and a big chunk of the tax base.

Beyond that, AZ cities get a substantial portion of electricity from Hoover Dam, which is currently producing far less than it used to. And with temps climbing, demand for AC will rise as well.

Just because the taps are still flowing doesn't mean the cities won't be harmed substantially. And that's assuming they're sane enough to rein in new suburban development that's currently booming.

former9thward

(31,980 posts)
28. AZ only gets 18% of the Hoover dam output.
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 04:57 PM
Aug 2021

CA gets most of it.

https://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/faqs/powerfaq.html

This is not an on and off situation. I said it will affect agriculture. It will not end it. If there are limits it will affect food prices on the east coast mainly.

wackadoo wabbit

(1,166 posts)
7. But wait! There's more!
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 08:46 PM
Aug 2021

Lake Mead is the Colorado River reservoir for the Hoover Dam. In July, the water level at the Hoover Dam fell to the lowest level since the dam was constructed in the 1930s. (I don't know about since then, but I doubt that it's become significantly higher.)

What many people don't realize, however, is that the electrical output from the dam is partially based on the water level. And if the water level drops low enough, the dam's electrical output will need to be completely shut down.

So not only less water, but no electricity, too!

Twenty-nine million people get at least some of their electricity from the Hoover Dam.

Climate change is fun.

wackadoo wabbit

(1,166 posts)
31. That's actually not what your link says; and, anyway, this is ultimately just different ways
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 10:44 PM
Aug 2021

of looking at the same thing.

The link says, "Hoover Dam generates, on average, about 4 billion kilowatt-hours of hydroelectric power each year for use in Nevada, Arizona, and California - enough to serve 1.3 million people."

While the Hoover Dam generates electricity that is "enough to serve 1.3 million people," that number is if the only power these people receive is that generated by the dam.

However, power can come from different sources. And 29 million people get at least some of their electricity from the dam, and the rest of their power from elsewhere.

Edit: left off a period

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
9. We have so much water in Ohio that my kids couldn't swim in Erie as the water is too high.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:04 PM
Aug 2021

It is a strange time.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
10. Every 8 inches of extra water level in the Great Lakes...
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:13 PM
Aug 2021

... is equivalent to ALL of the water used in California for a year, including the water used by their farmers who easily use most of it.

Right now, the Great Lakes are several feet above their typical level.

But that water will NEVER get transported to the West because (1) it's not economically feasible; and (2) it's not allowed per the Great Lakes compact.

hunter

(38,310 posts)
25. Many fruits and vegetables sold in the U.S.A. come from land irrigated by the Colorado River...
Tue Aug 17, 2021, 10:38 AM
Aug 2021

... especially in the winter.

Urban users downstream of Lake Mead can probably afford expensive recycled and desalinated water. Farmers can't.

Desalinated water is currently advertised at a "half cent a gallon." That's far too expensive for farmers but not too expensive for flushing toilets, taking showers, or washing clothes.

I think the greater danger to cities from global warming is not drought, but flooding and high wet-bulb temperatures that are not survivable without air conditioning.

Phoenix and Las Vegas are not going to dry up and blow away.


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Lake Mead -the nation's l...