CNN and MSNBC are no better this morning. From a Marine who served in Afghanistan

[JoanofArgh]

From a marine, who served in Afghanistan

Link to tweet

?s=20



Man, I picked a good day to mostly stay off this site today.

The number of bad takes by people who couldn't find Afghanistan on a map were coming fast and thick, and simultaneously ignoring the actual experts, ie those of us who survived by understanding Afghanistan is NOT the west


"We trained the army for 20 years!"

The average ANA service time was measured in weeks and months before they'd disappear, not years.

Very few "veterans" in the ANA, and those who did exist were often reassigned to be VIP guards or other non-infantry roles


"They had planes and helicopters!"

Most of them are decades old, lacking crucial maintenance, and trained crews to repair them. There was talk of the ANA getting maintained in Qatar, but that's obviously not a viable strategy.


"We should've trained them better!"

We taught them to read and write, drive, talk on comms, AND how to fight. Largely, they ignored our lessons, preferring to look "manly" on Liveleak vs being combat effective.

Plus it turns out they weren't getting paid by the Afghan govt.

"But the govt has fallen!"

For most people outside of Kabul and Kandahar, life doesn't change much. They're a tribal people, the Imam is their "leader", and his words ARE the law.

There is no patriotism in Afghanistan as we know it, their loyalty is to their village and Imam.


"We should've trained women to fight!"

The Afghani people never would've recognized a military force comprised of women regardless of their effectiveness. The Afghan govt would actively sabotage them, and it would embolden the Taliban that we were corrupting the country.


"We should've evacuated refugees sooner!"

You can't start an evacuation of a nation's citizens until the govt allows it. We've learned that Ghani refused, which isn't surprising, given what it would've resulted in: his death at the hands of the Taliban.


I can keep going, but the fact is there were 3 options:

1) we left in May, fewer refugees get out, Taliban retake Afghanistan in days

2) We leave now, packing 800 refugees into a C17 made for 100, meaning more refugees survive, Taliban take the country.

3) 200k more US troops.


2500 US troops since January didn't "hold the Taliban", because there were no engagements. It wasn't a deterrent, because most of those forces were transpo and support, not infantry.

It would take 50-75x that much to actually secure the country. 150-200k infantry forces.

And let's just say for giggles, the US takes the country back.

Then what? We put in another puppet govt that the Taliban can buy off while they're rebuilding in Pakistan?

Train another force that the corrupt govt won't pay so they can be bribed to surrender immediately?

Or the alternative, Afghanistan becomes a "US protectorate", mimicking the Philippines for the next 50 years.

But that ignores the rub: The Afghani people, unlike the Philippines, Koreans, Tawainese- didn't ask for democracy.

we just showed up

[Sherman A1]

1. Simple Fix

Turn them off and never turn them back on. You will be better informed and the blood pressure will be much better.

[True Blue American]

6. So right, Sherman

My family told me to turn off the news. They were right!

[Scruffy1]

65. One time a friend asked me why I never listened to radio news.

That night I decided to tune in to NPR on my way to work. Big mistake. Puts on paid hacks without identifying who pays them and broke every other journalism standard. It's not public radio but is almost totally sponsored by big corporate money just like the rest of the MSM. I've had friends who worked for them and they are very negative about their job. Complete hack outfit.

[jimfields33]

2. You are right about Afghanistan for sure

However, we’ve only have been talking about Afghanistan for a handful of days (this time). We’ve been taking coronavirus for around 450 days. I’m sure that’s why the priority shifted for a bit.

[JoanofArgh]

3. Good point. It's just so one -sided. If they have veterans on, they attack Biden,

when there are plenty of veteran's groups including the American Legion who supported Biden's decision.

[wnylib]

31. NPR is laying it on thick this morning.

The way they are carrying on, I am surprised that they have not yet called for Biden to resign.

They had one veteran on who said she was trying to help people she knows get out but the process is slow. After several minutes of saying that Biden was wrong to blame the Afghan army for not fighting, and praising the Afghan effort, the vet admitted that these were not translators or military. They were people she had met there who had been trying for years to go through normal immigration channels. She blamed Biden for not seeking out those people, too, and said there are hundreds of thousands of them.

NPR also mentioned briefly that NATO countries are assessing what they could have done better, then focused on some sharp criticism of Biden and the US from Germany.

Then they interviewed a woman in Afghanistan who runs a shelter for women who was angry that the US is leaving and that there are no US troops to protect people's homes or her shelter.

Finally, they interviewed the Inspector General for the Afghanistan mission. He gave a good background on the history of the war, of mission drift and unclear strategies from the start, the fact thst Afghan soldiers lacked the education to handle equipment. He also said that we should have learned from Vietnam and should not let this 20 year long war/occupation be forgotten. The interviewer acted like she did not hear anything that he said and zeroed in on tge question, "So who is to blame for the current situation?" He refused to answer that and said that the goal was to review the entire war and not lay blame, but learn from the experience.

I am so disgusted with NPR that I will not listen to it the rest of the week until they latch onto some other news item to beat to death. They are incapable of or unwilling to give blanced coverage of the problems Biden faced from TFG's actions. They do a better job of giving "balanced" coverage of anti vaxxers.

[Owl]

33. I agree. NPR was nauseating this morning.

[CrackityJones75]

34. I turned off NPR years ago.

The first time I heard “this segment supported in part by Koch industries”. Never another dollar from me and I was a monthly donor.

[CrackityJones75]

35. If interested

You can get Minneapolis’s AM 950 on tune in radio. One of the few liberal radio stations in the country.

[electric_blue68]

60. Thanks - i'll look for that 👍

[h2ebits]

40. Yep, I turned off my radio....

I recommend everyone read the news rather than listening and watching it. The sensationalism is absolutely awful.

[wnylib]

48. The media act like a bunch of

middle school airheads, focused solely on social gossip.

[JoanofArgh]

46. Ugh. That's horrible. NATO blames Ghani. There was a 2 week transition plan all worked

Link to tweet

?s=20

out in Doha but Ghani refused to work with anybody and fled with suitcases full of cash. I think this is part of why the Biden admin got caught up short and are being blamed for it.

But nobody in the US media is talking about him at all.

[wnylib]

51. Certainly nobody at NPR has been talking about it.

I was really annoyed at how they glossed over the NATO self-assessment and rushed into criticism of Biden.

The problem, which they keep repeating, is Biden's statement a few weeks ago that he did not expect there to be scenes like the evacuation of Vietnam. They point out that that is exactly what is happening in Afghanistan and say that Biden bungled this in spite of his foreign policy expertise. That expertise should make them realize that something unexpected went wrong and get them investigating and reporting on what it was instead of jumping so damned eagerly to condemn him. But that would require genuine journalism.

[JoanofArgh]

52. Very well put. Why aren't they investigating? I think Ghani screwed everything up.

[wnylib]

53. And the problem with Ghani started with TFG.

L

[Lovie777]

4. At this point in time . . ..

COVID Delta continued outbreak which I monitor every single day. I know the red states are the loudest concerning Afghanistan and I also know they don't give a shit about that neither but alas trying to show some fake outraged.

Outrage regarding USA COVID's death? Not so much from them. They just don't care.

[True Blue American]

5. Thank you for the truth

The MSM has failed miserably that last few days by rushing old war mongers and bitter Republicans who forget Trump set this deal in motion.

I am absolutely embarrassed by the hysterical gossip rag they call the media today.

[ananda]

7. This is a great distraction from the voting rights issue and

other important issues like fires and climate change

[JoanofArgh]

11. Totally agree.

[totodeinhere]

58. What is your point?

Are you suggesting that what is happening right now in Afghanistan is not news worthy? I for one can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ananda]

62. No. However, 24/7 at the expense of other issues that ..

are much more important?

Pleezze

[Lonestarblue]

8. I watched Biden's speech, then stopped the news after all the armchair critics got involved.

Yes, our intelligence community may not have had enough information to forecast the quick takeover by the Taliban, but this was going to happen no matter when we withdrew. Before I turned off the news yesterday, I heard someone say that our small force had been able to maintain the status quo with few fatalities on our side and we should have just kept doing that. How about the lives of those who die or who have lifetime health issues from IEDs? And the cost?

We just seem to start something and keep on doing it even though it doesn’t really accomplish anything. If I ran a business this way, I’d be bankrupt in very short order. Government and business have very different purposes, but I sure would like to see some effective business practices incorporated into government policies. As one example, the War on Drugs has mostly created very wealthy drug cartels but done little to address drug addiction—but it sure has helped Republicans incarcerate a whole lot of minorities, especially black men who then can’t have a family because they’re in jail or can’t take care of the children they do have. That is the result of never-changing white supremacist laws.

Anyway, I got off topic, but I think that most of the public will agree that Biden did the right thing. I don’t need to hear what the pundits or the wing nuts on Fox think.

[JoanofArgh]

12. The media keep talking about the Taliban breaking down the gates of Kabul when they've

been occupying western Kabul for months. A New Yorker journalist wrote an article with an interview with some of them back in March! It's infuriating.

And I agree with you about the war on drugs situation.

[Klaralven]

9. NGOs are another problem

There have been all these wonderful MSM stories about what NGOs were doing to transform Afghanistan society.

When their reach appears to have been limited to a very small percentage of the people in a few major cities.

[Aviation Pro]

10. The punditry needs to

STFU.

[Sherman A1]

17. That is how they keep you agitated and watching

The goal is to fill airtime between ads for drugs we never knew we needed. It’s infotainment, nothing more.

[Old Okie]

23. Agree

MSM is nothing but continuous commercials interrupted by a couple of minutes of whatever they consider to be news; no real in depth coverage of anything. I have to record even Rachel in order to skip commercials, she is on for about 20 minutes during her hour.

[onetexan]

43. I've tubed the MSM out completely pasy several days

Its aggravating they are bent on blaming it on biden.

[Ford_Prefect]

13. There was an Intel and State Dept. analysis extant before the invasion and prior to Cheney/Bush.

Boiled down it said we'd need at minimum 10 years to "nation rebuild" Afghanistan. We'd need to replace the economy and political culture. We'd have to eliminate the warlords who held regional power and were marketing the opium. In the end we'd be creating by force what would be considered a 51'st US state by the rest of the world which would be under constant threat much as Israel. We would also have to confront the enormous political corruption in the government of Pakistan which was the result of decades of Cold-war style US foreign policy.

The military projection was at least 150,000 troops, plus support. The financial estimate was likewise staggering and appeared to have no end. In short it looked much like Iraq has turned out to be.

The empire building proposed by the Neo-Cons was based on the ludicrous idea that exploiting the natural resources of the region could become the basis for the new economy, while obscuring their plans to run a pipeline through part of the country. Neo-Con in this case really meant Neo-Colonial.

The Afghan people did not invite U.S. intervention. We sent troops to allegedly remove Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, whom Reagan had enabled in the war against Russia. The rest IMO was done essentially as cover for the invasion of Iraq (to capture the oil fields there).

[Crowman2009]

27. We're still paying for Reagan & Nixon's fuck ups!

[crickets]

28. 👆 This. nt

[PortTack]

14. Thank you for your insightful post!

[orangecrush]

15. Great op

Well said.

[praxEs]

16. I trust (hope)...

that you are making this post in lots of other places, JoanofArgh. It is just that important in my opinion.

[SergeStorms]

18. Turned off MSNBC when "Morning Asshole"....

started crying about what a.........never mind. You know what he was doing, and the "guests" he had on to agree with him.
Turned to CNN. Same damned thing.

The TV is off. I'm going for a nice long walk.

[rockfordfile]

70. What's those peoples' history when it started?

Did they cheerlead the lies of Iraq and Afghanistan? Some of these people were around then pushing it.

[SergeStorms]

72. Oh, I'm sure 'Morning Asshole'.......

was all for it, being a republican and all. I'm sure if everyone did things HIS way the world would be in exemplary condition though.

[onetexan]

19. Everything you mentioned is 100% correct. The afghans dont want to be a democrqcy

[PatrickforB]

20. I've DEFINITELY got an alternative to sending another 200,000 soldiers to

Afghanistan!

Medicare for all Americans!

Seriously, let's raise corporate taxes, have a wealth tax, impose a transaction tax on the arbitrageurs on Wall Street, tax capital gains at regular income rates, while at the same time gradually and systematically reducing the military budget (have to be careful here, because we do need the military, it does need to be effective, complete with updated weapons, and a lot of civilian jobs depend on it), but gradual cuts, predictable ones? Yes.

[onetexan]

45. Bingo! Divert war money to healthcare & infrastructure

Imagine if all the wasted 2trillion spent in Afghanistan had been spent on fixing all of out infra issues.

[IbogaProject]

64. Not cuts, reallocate that spending to domestic uses

Not cuts, reallocate that spending to domestic uses. Gradually shrink the military industrial budget end the boom-bust budget whipsaws that leave individuals high and dry.

[mollie8]

21. Good info

This post needs to be on the front page of every newspaper in the US. Also, would be a good thing for you to explain the facts on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox. Thank you for setting us straight.

[Crowman2009]

22. What really pissed me off over the past 20 years are these civillian flag humpers who think...

....sending troops to their death via an Iraq or Afghanistan deployment is a way of supporting them.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

39. "Support Our Troops"...

Was always, IMO, nothing more than a chickenshit rhetorical device intended to silence legitimate debate on the neocon military agenda. As if “Corporal Jenkins”required everyone to support his decision to invade Afghanistan.

[crickets]

24. HUGE dose of truth. It's time we learned. nt

[samnsara]

25. like Nicolle Wallace said..to paraphrase..The American public will love the decision..

...and the press will hate it. Seems that is whats happening.

[Crowman2009]

26. Then there are the right-wing "I worry about the women & children" crowd, who don't give a flying...

...fuck about the women & children here in the USA.

[PatSeg]

29. That clarifies a lot

There is so much about Afghanistan that we don't know or understand.

[twodogsbarking]

30. TV sells advertising.

Everything else is hind tit.

[CrackityJones75]

36. Shared to my social media accounts.

Hope that is ok.

[JoanofArgh]

44. It is!

[FakeNoose]

37. Why can't the media figure it out, just like this veteran explains it?

He (or she) spells out ALL the reasons in plain language. No politics here, just simple facts

[JoanofArgh]

42. . Most of them aren't having all the veterans like American Legion on ,who supported Biden,

just the ones who trash him. Now ,Lawrence O'Donnell did have 2 veterans on last night who supported Biden's decision. Jake Tapper made a comment last night on Twitter that's it's his job to hold the President accountable. It's apparently also his job to be one-sided.

[Progressive dog]

38. Thanks

I watched some of the coverage but stopped.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

41. I cancelled my cable entirely.

Fuck them. Tired of searching through the same shitty movies also.

[Roc2020]

66. aye aye

[Loge23]

47. Other things that have fallen with Afghanistan:

- Richard Engels career
- MSNBC (Rachel will almost certainly leave now, and a big exception for Nicole Wallace)
- The American Media: Stood by while a con-man grafter almost destroyed the country, but Afghanistan is all Joe's fault.
- The mystique of the military: The world's greatest fighting force it isn't. No disrespect to the people who actually have to fight these useless wars, but it's time that American's wake up to the gross incompetence of the Pentagon - as well as the gross thievery of the M/I complex.

Maybe this is truly a watershed moment for America - one that can actually bring the electorate together. We've been sold a bill of goods about our intentions and our abilities in the world. It's all been a lie to cover the plundering of our nation's wealth. But more probably, it's a blip in the news cycle and will disappear faster then the Afghan army in our collective consciousness.

[sarcasmo]

49. I won't watch TV news until withdrawal porn is over.

[BlueIdaho]

54. This is an excellent idea.

I’m reminded of the late 1800s when promoters would cram an old wreck of a boat full of all sorts of animals, shove it out into a lake, and set fire to it. People would flock to watch the spectacle of such a horrific disaster. The promoters got stinking rich as a result.

Time for a media break and time to follow the money.

[LizBeth]

50. I had to make sure I could easily find on map. Has been years. Went right to it. Thumbs up

I worry about my old brain sometimes.

[Lithos]

55. Question

And first, I agree with your assessment. Asking about timing.

I am fairly sure that the Taliban's quick rollup of the Afghani military was fairly well advanced in planning and preparation. Ie, this was not a last second opportunistic piece on their side. I personally could not see that their Command and Control would be that nimble.

My question goes to the timing of "why now" - why not in a month? Do you think intel had discovered that the Taliban's assault was imminent whether or not the 2500 troops remained or not and whose existence would have resulted in the fairly significant loss of life? And that the US pulled things out now to keep that from happening?

And do you think that even the speed of the collapse of the Afghani military surprised even the Taliban? I think they extended things so much that the US deployment at the airport could not be contested even if they wanted to. Plus they recognize they are now the government and have to act more with a presence to the world stage, not as combatants.

L-

[Dan]

56. Good point,

But having seen how the GOP acts when it comes to foreign affairs -

For instance, Nixon and the disruption of the peace talks - with his plan to end the war.

Reagan/Bush sabotage of Carter’s plan to free the Iranian hostages.

Reagan arming Latin America and endorsement of torture, expanding drugs into the U.S..

Bush/Cheney - Iraq invasion to steal the Oil and our failure to be greeted with flowers.

When it comes to the GOP - their political, monetary interest override the best interests of the nation, and that is a fact. So, to my way of thinking - I would not put it past this party of the GOP to have worked something out with the Taliban to start this mess so they could distract from things like the Voting rights Bill and just about any positive news about Biden’s administration. I mean, TFG was talking about his love affair with the Taliban leaders and who ever kisses Trump’s ass is who the GOP loves.

[Lithos]

63. Agree with your points

And would add that the GOP plays the short game with respect to these things.

In other words, TFG wanted the Foreign policy win of getting most of the Troops outside of Afghanistan without having any casualties - so brokered a deal for a short term peace deal. However, I do not think they played 3D chess to explicitly create a sabotage of Biden's presidency especially when I think they thought they were going to win in the end .

L-

[Uncle Joe]

57. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread JoanofArgh.

[JoanofArgh]

61. Thanks for reading, Uncle Joe!

[IbogaProject]

59. NPR National Petroelum Radio

NPR = National Petroelum Radio, corporate propaganda to make the upper middle class feel good about themselves, while shifting focus away from the parasitic wealthy.

[crickets]

67. Kicking for the night crowd.

[Hortensis]

68. Thanks for channeling an unusually "both feet on ground" voice, Joanofargh. nt

[Smackdown2019]

69. That's what I have been saying to my right-wing nutz!

What did we lose? Nothing! The equipment was turned over to the Afghan government and it is still there in Afghanistan. I seriously doubt any of the equipment is new, just wore out problem equipment that was not worth shipping back. Same as for the aircraft.... I doubt the Afghan government or Taliban has a top gun ace or let alone a pilot, with fuel and maintenance personnel to fly the aircraft.

In all... it's just a desert with nomads... we accomplished our objective a decade ago when we got bin laden.

Now reallocate the defense budget elsewhere!

[Chili]

71. thank you for this!

I do want to hear from those who served in Afghanistan, even if they don't agree about everything. I like Paul Rieckhoff very much - I remember when Rachel first interviewed him in 2004 on Air America radio - he was pro-Kerry, but didn't outright say it. Now he's annoying me by not discussing both sides of this complex situation, seemingly only blaming Biden's administration, though not directly him, I don't think.

Anyway - appreciated this vet's tweet!

[UTUSN]

73. Belated K&R

[calimary]

74. This is one BIG FAT King-Kong-on-the-Empire-State-Building keeper!

[Cha]

75. KR!