I am learning of a far different "Afghanistan" than I had assumed

[randr]

I am very moved by the testimony of the vets who have served over these long years. Many have made emotional connections to the people and still have a strong sense responsibility for what they believed they were accomplishing.
I believe that we made a difference on mostly personal levels. Women mostly had their lives improved with our presence.
I understand the heartache this current situation is causing people as I had never imagined before.
My only desire is for more truth to emerge about our involvement and that truth will show us a kind path out of this morass.

[Fix The Stupid]

1. They.rape.little.boys. It is part of their culture.

That's enough for me.

Get out, never go back. Let our adversaries sink their blood and treasure in that cesspool of filth.

We'll sit back this time and say "I told you so...".

And just in case you missed it...

They.rape.little.boys. - it is part of their "culture".

Is that a culture worth dying for?

[multigraincracker]

6. Well, it's a damn good thing

there ain't no child rape in this great land of America.

[Fix The Stupid]

7. Sigh... right out of the gate.

Read this - follow the links - then get back to me:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html


To compare this to Western nations is absurd. Almost comical.

But hey, keep on believing your country has the same problem...

[multigraincracker]

10. Take a few courses in Cultural Anthropology.

Ask a Hindu about eating cows here. Talk to men and women in this country that were victims of child rape, in your own town too, I'll bet there are many. Male American soldiers abuse of female soldiers is pretty common too. There are too many reasons for us not being there and it has little to do with just one injustice going on.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. Take a few courses in whataboutism.

[multigraincracker]

18. Pretty much what the study of Cultural Anthropology

is.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Not in my experience.

I recall some fairly clear delineations with regard to cultural relativity, and the discipline itself being more concerned with understanding cultures than making excuses for regressive behavior.

[multigraincracker]

20. What experience do you have.

Cultural anthropologists often study social groups that differ from their own. The only judgement one makes is about how that culture survives within its environment. Is it adaptive to change in that environment? I wouldn't be so quick to judge a behavior of some in that culture, as you have, when the same behavior is common across cultures. Then we have to ask if it due to a learned behavior or is it the nature of the species. Does child rape exist across all cultures, then it is nature. If it is only in Afghanistan and the Taliban, then it is a learned behavior. You infer it is "them" and not "us". I was disagreeing with that conclusion.
But, what do I know?

[Treefrog]

9. Interesting you had to use "boys" instead of "children" as though boy rape would be worse than

girl rape. Or perhaps you think it is?

[Fix The Stupid]

17. Actually..you're right - they rape all children. n/t

[meadowlander]

21. 38 million people live in Afghanistan

Bacha bazi is illegal and was banned by the Taliban who imposed the death penalty for it. It may still be widely practiced by the warlords and corrupt people in power (you know, the ones we were propping up) but that's not a reason to write off all other people that live there who don't practice it and/or also find it repulsive.

[Irish_Dem]

2. Probably could have established personal connections for less than 20 years of war and $2 Trillion?

And any personal connections would be offset by all the US bombing, killing, maiming of Afghan civilians.

The truth is emerging and it is not pretty.

[Amishman]

3. It was time to leave, and we shouldn't have been there.

But we are completely screwing up execution of the withdrawal. That's not on Joe, it's on what ever generals and intelligence community big brains planned the actual strategy.

The human aspect is huge and terrible, but long term I fear for the implications of all the equipment being abandoned. The Taliban now has advanced attack drones, armored vehicles, fighter aircraft, attack helicopters, and anti-air missiles. This is terrifying. Much of it is also preventable. A couple dozen marines with some explosives and gasoline could do a lot to sterilize a site and deny equipment - and quickly.

[onetexan]

16. Not so. The withdrawal AND its accompanying bloodletting was inevitable

Delaying it wld also mean more bloodshed. So take your pick. Another 50 years of propping up a corrupy government & endless amount of $ isn't going to make a lick of difference.

This isn't on Biden. Its on Bush, cheney, the Con & every warmongering GOP .

[Klaralven]

4. Women mostly had their lives improved with our presence?

Was that actually true outside of the couple million in Kabul?

Only 26% of Afghanistan's population were urbanized in 2019, i.e live in urban areas and cities.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/455773/urbanization-in-afghanistan/

[mopinko]

5. it's a way more diverse country than i had realized.

been talking a bit w my nephew who was over there at the start, and had a hand in the policy.
his idea was to partition the country into ethnic states.
it's the pashtu who are the brutal ones, that make up the taliban.
but there are at least a half dozen other ethnic groups that dont rly want anything to do w the taliban.
he wanted to give them 2 of about 15 states. says a central govt was never going to work.
not sure it could be done. drawing lines on a map is the root of a lot of shit in the region.

but you have a point in that it is not the same country it was 20 yrs ago.
there will be those who wont go back. let's wish them all the luck we can muster.

[randr]

8. I have heard more lately from friends and family who served

They present a different story.
If the fault must be exposed it is on me. It is one each and every American who have voted for the the people who have carried this out this long. It is on each and everyone of us who lashed out blindly after 9/11. We need to own this and make sure it never happens again.

[FakeNoose]

15. When we entered Afghanistan in 2001, OBL was there

We had chances to get him on Afghan soil, but he got away repeatedly. Eventually he left the country and got into Pakistan. The US has a system of informers (spies) all around there and eventually OBL's location was learned, and you know the rest.

That happened 10 years ago, in 2011. Why didn't the U.S. military leave Afghanistan then? It's something I'll never understand. However in the beginning we did have justification for going into Afghanistan.

The unjustified invasion you're talking about was Iraq. That's all on Bush and Cheney.

[crickets]

12. 👆 "drawing lines on a map is the root of a lot of shit in the region"

[mopinko]

14. but how do you unfuck it except by drawing new lines?

the idea was to have a robust process to draw up new maps. .
i think it may have been a case of-cynicism rather than skepticism.

[Progressive dog]

11. Biden did the right thing.

The kind path is to let the Afghans find their own way.