Did Biden lie about the state of Afghanistan?

[Renew Deal]

Read before alerting...

I wonder if Biden told the truth about the state of the Afghanistan government. I can't imagine US intelligence was so bad that they didn't know the Taliban would roll through within a couple weeks. The US has been in touch with the Taliban for months.

The bigger question is whether Biden had any other choice. He couldn't go on camera and say the Afghanistan government would collapse. Isn't it strange how the news reports say that "no one expected it to be so fast?" I think everyone that knew, knew that the Taliban would take over in a fairly short amount of time. Biden announcing it early would have caused chaos, death, panic, and violence that lasted weeks or more.

I'm not making excuses for Biden. I think he made the best of a bad situation. Ultimately, I give him credit for having the guts to pull out. Trump scheduled the withdrawal for after he was gone. He was too afraid of Lindsay Graham and criticism to do it himself.

[leftstreet]

1. If there was deceit, more likely he was lied to

I can't imagine after his long and impressive career he'd want this shit sticking to him in any history books

[Strelnikov_]

2. I do not think so. Typical corporate behavior

I have read enough the last few days to come to the conclusion that there were plenty of warning signs.

Thing is, bad news does not travel up-hill.

By the time it gets to the SOS and POTUS level of management, it was sanitized to 'they could last six months'.

[Jarqui]

3. They knew the score long ago.

Look at the media in google between Apr 1 and May 31, 2021

The Taliban was attacking the Afghan forces, etc. And they were already underway to take control.

The only surprise was the speed. But It wasn't exactly shocking. Many stated it last spring.

The Afghans had been fighting and dying for a long time. 20 years of this had taken its toll.

To me, the media is grabbing some ratings from passionate BS with little foundation in facts. All they have to do is look back at their own media reports from April & May, 2021 to establish this.

Joe did the right thing.

[agingdem]

13. getting our people out of Afghanistan was never going to be easy

too many variables...too many outliers...this was never Biden's war....Bush/Cheney went into Afghanistan as retaliation for 9/11..they had no plan except shock and awe...bomb the Afghans into submission, shove our brand of democracy down their grateful throats, and get the hell out..well that worked!!...and then came Trump..negotiate with the Taliban (the hell with the Afghans), get their pinky-swear commitment on paper, release their prisoners...(the very same prisoners who are now in charge) and then do a victory dance...another great "plan"... Joe is doing what he promised to do..bring our soldiers and support personnel home for good...not a perfect plan but a real one

[Jarqui]

18. The US was asked by the Afghan gov't

to go easy on the departure so people wouldn't panic.

There were reports of the Taliban protecting US soldiers from other militants over the past year.

The deal appears to be "you (the Taliban) let us (US & NATO) depart without shooting us in the back, and we'll depart. But if you kill our people, we'll blow the shit out of you and hang around."

The Taliban have been killing Afghans but not Americans/NATO.

Evacuation flights have resumed. UK, Canada & NATO forces are helping. Canada has agreed to take up to 20,000 Afghans and has about 500 in Canada already. The US has committed to

[Hoyt]

4. Well, if he knew Taliban would roll through, should have added air support.

maybe sent in withdrawal troops, etc.

Think it was muffed in that it didn’t have to be this bad.

But, I’m hopeful Biden’s team is doing what is necessary now. In any event, I still support Biden, even if I’m not buying excuses for this matter.

[Quixote1818]

5. Like 9/11 it was a failure of imagination. nt

[VarryOn]

6. After watching his presser, I think the Sullivan boy...

Contributedly greatly to bad advice. He seemed genuinely perplexed, upset, and over his head. He'd seem to be the first sacrificial lamb. His smarminess a couple days ago wouldn't help.

[agingdem]

14. I watched the Sullivan presser...

he was not perplexed or over his head...clear unambiguous statement of facts...the exit was never going to be clean...too many variables...Biden is doing his very best as are his people in an untenable situation..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Wishcasting

Confirmation Bias. Willing Suspension Of Disbelief.Group Think. Do you want me to go on?

[Treefrog]

19. This.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

8. I can definitely entertain the argument that 'lying' was the prudent move

looking at the situation in total.

But that is different than stating 'that's what happened', which would involve more speculation than I'm comfortable with.

[NoMoreRepugs]

9. Maybe us "Westerners", even those in the intel services, are simply incapable of

understanding the complex nuances of a tribal country like Afghanistan??

[Hekate]

10. Parse the truth? Possibly. Lie? I think not.

[marble falls]

11. Argh!!!!! They wanted us out, we wanted out, Joe Binden got us out. The end. Anyone who ...

... expected anything other than what's happening only much, much bloodier didn't read history.

Here's what CIA knows about Afghanistan ...

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/afghanistan/

[maxsolomon]

12. It wouldn't be the 1st time a Politician lied.

However:
1. The Afghan Military made these deals without approval of the Central Government.
2. The Central Government may have know and lied to the US.
3. Short and relatively bloodless is better than long and bloody. And it's been long and bloody already - Taliban terror has been unrelenting for decades. Police & Army recruits have borne the brunt.
4. The US military may have been in the dark because they'd pulled back and been drawn down to 2500 already, but it can't be surprised.
5. I'm imagining Biden saying "we think the Afghan Military will collapse immediately, without resistance" when announcing our departure under Trump's terms. It wouldn't have been wise.

[Cha]

16. Yeah, Fucking trump LIED all the GD time..

Pres ?Biden is Not a Liar.

Link to tweet

[maxsolomon]

22. I've often said that President is who we hire to murder for us.

I have zero expectation that lying won't come with the territory.

[ansible]

15. At this point, lying sounds better than sheer incompetence

If Biden really didn't know it'd end this badly, this is fucking embarrassing.

[Treefrog]

20. I agree. It was past time to get out, but this withdrawal has been badly bungled.

I don’t think it’ll hurt Joe in the long run though.

[maxsolomon]

23. Has it though?

Sounds like there is chaos and panic, sure, but little violence compared to what Afghanistan has seen in the last 20 years.

I'm trying to imagine a withdrawal that wouldn't be considered 'badly bungled'. What does your perfect withdrawal from a 20 year occupation of a Central Asian country look like?

[Treefrog]

24. Perhaps promises kept to those who worked for us and beside us for two decades.

Instead of leaving them to the mercy of these medieval madmen.

[maxsolomon]

25. I think the refugee issue is a testament to how feckless the Afghan Govt and military were.

Yes, the US undoubtedly thought they'd lose to the Taliban, and processing of 1,000s and 1,000s of Asylum claims could have been faster , and started earlier. But nationwide, unconditional surrender in a weeks' time?

There are Afghans trying to leave now that didn't expect that, either, and there are Afghans who should leave who are choosing to stay; Much of this is unavoidable; there are 40 million people in Afghanistan. How many want to leave now? 500K? A million? How many did we make "promises" to?

It's not 100% "Bad Bungling". Things are rarely black and white; they're complex, but America always needs to point the Finger of Blame.

[Vinca]

21. I can't imagine Biden doing that. He'll look you in the face and tell you you'll die from Covid if

you don't get vaccinated, why would he lie about Afghanistan which 99.9% of the population couldn't find on the map for a million dollar prize? A more likely scenario is that after Trump held hands with the Taliban and made a deal (were love letters exchanged with them, too?) they set about the business of quietly taking over and when the date came they took over. Apparently there was very little combat and they walked in more than fought their way in. Whether or not Biden knew the Afghan army would run when the first Taliban fighter looked at them cross-eyed is not really important. What's important is the Afghan army was 300,000 strong. There were 75,000 Taliban fighters. At the time there were only 3,500 U.S. troops. We can't care for their country more than they do.

[Imperialism Inc.]

26. I think the military and intelligence lied to itself.

They told the lies so often they came to believe them. I'm sure they told him exactly what he said, that the Afghan government would fight. They seemed to think they would have a couple months after the exit to evac everyone. Every independent expert I read before this all went down seemed to think the same.