Inside the warped world of incel extremists

[Jilly_in_VA]

In trying to understand what prompted a man in Plymouth, England to commit the worst mass shooting in the UK for over a decade, attention has turned to his apparent links with the incel community – an online subculture of people who describe themselves as “involuntary celibates".

Jake Davison allegedly shot his mother before a shooting spree which ended when he turned the gun on himself. His youngest victim was three years old. In the lead-up to the attacks, he compared himself to incels in YouTube videos and contributed to their forums.

He uploaded videos in which he fixated on his virginity and, in a direct reference to incel ideology, Davison's described himself as “blackpilled". This means that he believed himself too old, at 22, to find love.

Incels refuse to accept responsibility for their circumstances, instead believing their inability to attract women makes them victims of oppression. Like all groups under the umbrella of online misogyny known as the “manosphere", they subscribe to the “red pill" conspiracy theory. They believe men are the true victims of gendered oppression, that male power has been usurped, and that feminism is a front to disguise men's subjugation.

https://www.rawstory.com/inside-the-warped-world-of-incel-extremists/
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This is both depressing and infuriating. Self-pitying misogynists.

[Scrivener7]

1. I can think of very few problems our world faces that are not the result of toxic masculinity.

Incels are frustrated toxic masculinity. Their entitlement is not satisfied so they are enraged.

[Treefrog]

3. Bingo.

I saw his self-pitying video. “Here I am in this same house…whinge.”

Grow the fuck up and move out!

[LizBeth]

8. +1

[thucythucy]

9. So true. nt

[yonder]

15. Two words from the movie The Four Seasons

that has stuck with me all of these years since first seeing it: Macho Bullshit.

Verbal and physical abuse, mansplaining, bullying, sports addiction, big trucks, etc., all of it I put under the umbrella of Macho Bullshit.

I don't know if it is due to testosterone, childhood experiences, parenting, lack of love or education, culture, sex or lack thereof, plain old meaness or what, but I'm sick of this aspect displayed by many members of our gender. We could do better but for some reason we...just...dont -- probably because of Macho Bullshit.

[smirkymonkey]

18. +1000

[Initech]

20. Our 45th president was the peak of toxic masculinity, IMO.

Even though he's really one of the most disgusting slobs on the planet.

[musette_sf]

25. +1

[FakeNoose]

2. How many hours a day did this guy spend playing video war games?

That might have something to do with it. Incel or not, many of those war games promote violence towards women.

[Ohio Joe]

7. Really? Which war games are those?

While there are absolutely games that promote violence against women, I can't think of any war games that do so... Much less 'many'

[Javaman]

10. +1 nt

[cinematicdiversions]

12. Maybe he removed the pool ladders in Sims 4?

I don;t understand this. Honestly this seems like coddling often I hate to say, often by mothers, who let thier sons live at home without a job well past their 18th birthday.

I was given three choices at 18 Job, military or college. Living at home and raiding the fridge and living in the bedroom I grew up in was not an option on the table.

Look at the Sandy Hook shooter and tell me the mother's actions didn't contribute to those deaths.

[Javaman]

11. I am 58 and have been playing video "war" games since video games pretty much started.

I'm happily in a relationship for 18 years.

What got me there? therapy.

due to a fucked up home life growing up it took me a long time to have a normal healthy relationship.

video games, guns, etc contribute zero to this issue.

lack of good positive roll models that take an interest in a persons well being is the issue.

lack of self respect, lack of confidence lack of tools needed for healthy interpersonal relationships is the issue.

please don't go down the tipper gore route of blaming everything that's easy instead of the actual issue.

[Scrivener7]

19. But have you ever wondered why "games" that simulate killing large numbers of people

are so appealing to some people?

I'm not saying they lead anyone down any path. I know nothing about that. But why do they appeal? Why would anyone want to spend their free time doing that?

I imagine for most the answer would be "because they're exciting." But why are they exciting?

[Sympthsical]

17. Hoo boy

As a gamer, no. Just . . . no.

War games usually just make you hate Nazis.

[malaise]

22. YOu know I have long wondered about the impact of these video games on

male anti-social behavior which turns off young women in droves.
The other enemy of socializing is the damned smart phone.
Two years ago I walked into a student dining room on campus and saw most of them not talking to each other - I was later told that some of them were actually texting to people at their own table. They have lost the ability to interact with people.
Maybe I'm just too old.

[MineralMan]

27. It's always difficult to establish communications with people.

So many people lack self-confidence and have few interests that involve other people. So, they often dive into things that they can do alone. Smart phones, etc., are just the current way to avoid direct personal contact with people. So, in settings where people do not already know each other, it can seem almost impossible to make contact.

That's not new. Back in the 1960s, I used to see the same things at the student dining hall and snack bar. Meeting people is always difficult, or so it seems, anyhow, to most of us.

It was hard for me, for sure. But, I started thinking about it and found ways to make initial contacts. Maybe someone was looking at a newspaper in the snack bar. I saw lots of people doing that. So, I'd walk over and ask someone, "Do you mind if I look at the "Whatever" section that person wasn't reading. The answer was always, "Sure, go ahead." So I'd sit down and pick up that section. Almost inevitably, a conversation would start soon after that.

Sometimes, I'd just sit by myself and engage in general people watching. What often happened was that someone would stop at my table and say something like, "I noticed that you're just sitting here by yourself, but you look happy doing that." "Oh, Hi, I'm George." would be my response. A conversation would ensue. That also works at parties where you don't know anyone and in other situations. You watch people and keep smiling. Someone will always stop by to chat. You just need to look like you'd welcome some company.

Or, you can turn that around and approach others in such situations, by noticing something and mentioning it. Someone has to break the ice, so a conversation can begin. Once the conversation starts, you can begin learning about the other person, and that can sometimes lead to a friendship or even a romantic connection.

Shy people have to get over their shyness somehow. It's not easy, but once you learn a few ways to do that, it gets easier every time you do it.

A stranger is just someone you haven't talked to yet.

[MineralMan]

4. Bizarre! Where is it written that a person

can't find love if they don't do it by age 22?

The reality is that those incels are assholes from the get-go. They treat women horribly, and have nothing to offer, in terms of relationships with women. They think they are owed sex by women. They don't understand that they won't get that if they continue to behave like assholes with those women.

They are crippled by their own insecurities, but are also unwilling to do some self-examination and make necessary changes in how they behave and think.

I have zero pity for people who cannot see the reality behind their failure to form human relationships. Zero.

[Claire Oh Nette]

14. WhiteTaliban...

"They think they are owed sex by women"

THis.

And not just women, the hottest, prettiest, most visually attractive women. These anti-social schlubs who do not partake of personal grooming or the gym want to rock little hot bodies. He's a stunted 12 year old, like all the MAGAs and the Incels.

While I don't condone this, he is not "involuntarily celibate." He's just a 22 year old virgin. He's welcome to buy a F***. Or join a fundamentalist Mormon sect.

Or grow a personality.

American Taliban.

[MineralMan]

23. Yes, Exactly.

Lacking any sort of social skills, they desire the prettiest, most popular girls or women, depending on their age, and fail to offer anything of value to them. Their targets have plenty of suitors who have taken the time to develop social skills, so their clumsy, awkward, and entitled approaches simply get rejected outright.

Having failed and been rejected, they generalize their failure and blame it on all girls and women. They're incapable of seeing themselves as they are seen, and imagine that they should be welcomed despite their irrational approach.

Instead, most boys and young men learn from failed approaches and learn respect for women and how to become better able to related to them. Not the incels. They just get angry at others and fail to learn anything. All of that stuff should be sorted out in middle school, when desires first develop. There are lessons everywhere if you just pay attention.

Incels are deeply flawed human beings. They respond to their lack of success by blaming the girls and women that attract them, thus making themselves even less attractive to any woman or girl.

It's a cycle that soon becomes habit and is almost impossible to correct.

[IowaGuy]

16. I did not find love until I was almost 30....

and actually, I was OK with that. I thought I was in love at 17....I was relatively quickly and brutally disabused of that notion by the object of my affections. Although I was not crazy about the resolution of that relationship at the time, I have thought over the years many times that she truly was a great friend and did me, both of us, a huge favor by dumping my ass.

I spent the next decade + being basically bad boyfriend material....the guy parents warned their daughters about, drinking, weed, risky behavior, jumping in and out of relatively casual and shallow relationships. Most "relationships" lasted from less than 24 hours to a couple of weeks. two actually lasted about 6 months, but I was hardly faithful during that time.

Met my eventual wife through a mutual friend, not even romantic or sexual at first. We just kept seeing each other in group social scenes and always found ourselves ending up talking with each other by the end of the night. Eventually started going out, and after a year or so, I realized I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. In between my first love and my actual forever love, there was a lot of stuff that happened that was fun if not of questionable morality. This despite my rather nerdy personality, nerdy unathletic looks, average size ,at best on a good day, physical tools, little to no money and consistently buzzed and drunken state. So yeah, if a guy like I was is consistently laid for over a decade under those circumstances, I just can not get what these Incels problems are.

[MineralMan]

24. When I was about 13 years old and was first attracted to girls my own age,

I was awkward, nervous, and clumsy around them. However, I paid attention and learned how to behave in ways that let me become a friend and a possible boyfriend. I stopped trying to "get" girls and worked on being someone they liked instead. That, it seems to me, is the normal way we learn to get along with people.

What I finally learned was that it was far easier to form romantic relationships with people who were already your friends. So, I made friends with people, and sometimes those friendships turned into relationships. I never felt entitled to anything when it came to relationships, but let things develop on their own.

That worked for me, even in high school, and continued to work as an adult. In fact, I didn't really try all that hard. I was just a friendly guy. If something developed, that was great. If not, I still had a friend.

[IowaGuy]

29. Some similarities between our life experiences...some differences.

Before my first love, although I felt awkward around girls, looking back I realize now that there were a number that wanted to be my friend and felt friendship towards me, we got along good, but there was always that wall between us that was basically constructed within my own mind about how different and what a mystery girls were. After I flamed out on my first love, I did spiral out some on what could be best described as a somewhat pathetic narcissistic butt-hurt attitude where I just at least presented outwardly that I just didn't care.

This did not for whatever reason, translate into any misogynistic feelings of hatred or distrust for women....just more of a feeling of ambivalence. Sort of a brooding, sad, quietness around me. I partied a lot and I think, because I wasn't really putting on any act or attempting to manipulate or "get" girls, a lot of girls felt more comfortable around me even though I clearly wasn't a "keeper". It was during this time, that I realized, even though society expects the male to be aggressive and woo, hunt, make the first move, etc....whatever....in actuality, it's the woman that chooses, for whatever reason she may have. so you might as well relax, be yourself and just enjoy the ride because there isn't a whole lot you can do to change that one fact that ultimately, they decide.

It was during that decade that I spent a great deal of time on some rather self-absorbed introspection....or what could otherwise be called growing up. I am not now the person I was then, although it would be fair to say I am at least partially a result of those experiences and time. It's been an evolution. I've been a lot of different people over the years and some of them I don't even really like now. I truly hope that whatever little time I have left on this rock, I continue to evolve. It's been a great ride....

[magicarpet]

5. I'm a scumbag who has been totally rejected,... and it is all the world's fault,.. absolutely,...

.... not my own.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. Have they never heard of prostitutes?

Take a trip to Nevada.

[2naSalit]

13. Those poor...

Penises. They are just so misunderstood.

[Jilly_in_VA]

21. The biggest sexual organ is the BRAIN

and theirs are so damned UGLY. And small. Itty bitty.

(actually some think it's the skin, but that's the largest erogenous zone)

[jmowreader]

26. The thing is, I don't think they actually WANT sex

There is NO ONE out there who can't find a companion if he tries even slightly. I've met plenty of truly disgusting guys who are married and have kids.

[ZonkerHarris]

28. idiots mistaking sex for love. want love? Give love. And don't be an asshole.