On the floor of the British House of Commons. THEY see what trump did, why not Americans?

[George II]

Link to tweet

[Haggard Celine]

1. He thinks Biden's making a mistake by withdrawing.

I guess he wants is to be there forever. I remember that John McCain said, back when we were first invading that area, that we would be there for 100 years. A lot of conservatives want that. The people who contribute to their campaigns don't want it to end because it's a cash cow for them.

[OldBaldy1701E]

4. Bingo! (n/t)

[Baitball Blogger]

21. Sadly, the Taliban will always be a threat because they can be bought.

Last time it was Saudi Arabia who financed them to create the push they wanted to get the US military back in the Middle East to do their clean-up job.

If there is a lesson here, it's that we need every invested country to cycle soldiers into the country to maintain some semblance of a democratic country in Afghanistan. But, I suspect that won't happen until the Taliban makes another move outside of their country.

[cynical_idealist]

27. They are programming all their listeners to malfunction

Feeding humans bad data at all times, their brains can't know the truth...

We need a vast movement of progressive/liberal reality hackers to
steer people back to reasonable understanding of life.

[RVN VET71]

42. And most of the cash is from taxpayers.

Afghanistan’s major product has been opium. And I doubt major American corporations were profiting from that. Also, do they even have oil?

So the gelt is not coming from Afghanistan, itself. Country’s a desert, one of the poorest countries on Earth. No, the money is not being taken from Afghanistan, it’s rather being transferred -- from our pockets to the plutocrats. The big corporate POS’s who pay the Fascists of the GOP do so because they know the GOP will funnel billions, over time trillions, of dollars you and I and 100,000,000 other Americans have paid in taxes -- all in the form of non-compete contracts which not only make the rich pigs richer but actually carry no serious penalties to contractors who do shoddy work or no work at all.

Our getting out of there was a means of stanching the bleeding of our treasury to the worst possible people and corporations in America.

Was Biden on top of his game in executing the pull out? Possibly not, but it is looking more and more like that was mostly because his hands and feet were tied tightly by impossible deals made by Fatso45 and Fat Mike Pompeo -- deliberately, I’m sure. Neither of those bloated bozos has any affection of sense of loyalty to America or the American people.

2022 will either be a revival of our nation and its place among the better places in the world, or the end of everything we believe to be "America" for the next hundred years.

[BadgerMom]

45. Exactly. This guy can pound sand.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

2. We don't see it because of the preponderance of reich wing propaganda

…taking over the public narrative.

[certainot]

18. led with 1500 coordinated radio stations that can be locally coordinated and have no free easy

alternatives/competition for politics/news in most parts of the country if you're working or driving.

and for 30 years before limbaugh croaked the think tanks (in russia too, the last 10 years at least) merely had to feed limbaugh and all stations and their blowhards had to follow. a few hundred lying racist ignorant hypocrits hiding behind call screeners and microphones will be blaming biden and democrats for the whole thing and will push for 'investigations' to distract americans and obstruct everything biden- and the city-dwelling analysts who have ignored talk radio for 30 years might as well be studying fish without water

ignoring it has been the biggest political mistake in history

[cynical_idealist]

28. They are programming all their listeners to malfunction

Feeding humans bad data at all times, their brains can't know the truth...

We need a vast movement of progressive/liberal reality hackers to
steer people back to reasonable understanding of life.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

53. Yep, I don't see any efforts to beat back the propaganda.

I’m not sure people realize how dangerous propaganda is. Anyone who wonders how we got to this point of social polarization isn’t looking at what’s staring us all right in the face—reich wing radio and fox newz.

I can’t say what I’d like to see happen to Murdoch.

[Cha]

32. Exactly, Blanche.. We Only See It On

Social Media

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

36. Thank you for this, Cha.

[Cha]

40. You're Welcome, she.. TY

[FakeNoose]

43. Michael McFaul is a very smart guy

Wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McFaul

He may look familiar to many of us because he's a frequent guest on MSNBC and other news channels. He's a Rhodes scholar, Ph.D., and professor of Political Science at Stanford University. McFaul was U.S. Ambassador to Russian under Barack Obama, from 2012 to 2014.

He has authored at least 8 books, the most recent is From Cold War to Hot Peace: An American Ambassador in Putin's Russia (2018). I've read that book and recommend it to anyone who may be interested in recent Russian political developments.

[Cha]

56. TY for that info on Michael McFaul, FN!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

52. Wow, thanks Cha!

I hadn’t seen this before, hmmmm…very interesting.



Hey, good to see ya!

[Cha]

57. That's what I thought, B!

You, too!

[SheltieLover]

3. Inconvenient!

[malaise]

5. It was and is sabotage by the Slobfather and his allies

Bob Seely(Tory MP) - "The collapse in #Afghanistan happened because a truly dreadful Trump, who was probably in hock to the Russians, dealt with the Taliban behind the Afghan government's back, a shocking betrayal...

-------------------
The only word is treason - lock him the fuck up!

[certainot]

20. russians played the republicans again

[wnylib]

58. But then he went on to say that Biden

Last edited Fri Aug 20, 2021, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

could have reversed what TFG did, but chose not to. He claimed that Afghanistan was stabilized but now it will go rogue in its own borders and then resume terrorism abroad. He blames Biden for that.

However, the only way to reverse what Trump did would have been to put massive numbers of troops in Afghanistan again to start all over with beating back the Taliban.

Joe did the right thing.

[malaise]

60. +1000

[wnylib]

62. The larger picture is being lost in

the discussions about withdrawing.

Trump's deal weakened the Afghan government, strengthened the Taliban, and diminished US presence to the point that the Taliban could make the rapid advances that it has. Afgan war lords, who headed the country's security forces, were corrupt and not reliably committed to a unified defense of the country. They kept funds allocated for troop training. Soldiers deserted because they were not paid. Therefore, the number of available Afgan troops was not a reliable figure.

The only way to reverse what Trump did was to ramp up US military presence in the tens of thousands to beat back the gains that the Taliban had made. So Biden was right to leave.

Biden had troops available to help with getting people out, as is being done now.

The military industrial complex had turned the initial goal of defeating OBL and Al Qaida into a never ending presence.

[Ziggysmom]

6. His opinion about tfg and the Russians makes sense. Now Biden has to clean up the mess.

We never should have gone there. So many lives wasted and money that could have been much better spent at home.

[Lonestarblue]

9. Money spent at home doesn't enrich the wealthy stockholders of military suppliers enough.

That is one of the big reasons we have so many interventions. And we spend so much money for the military because we give away planes and war materiel to some countries (Israel, for example) and sell them to others, which means the military then has to develop better planes at enormous costs. It’s never-ending cycle.

The other reason for military intervention has often been to protect the profits of big corporations. Much of the destabilization and corruption of Central America came from protecting United Fruit. The wealthy stockholders of big corporations get special protection for their businesses from the US military.

Of course, we initially had a reason for going into Afghanistan, but after bin Laden’s killing we should have wrapped up and left. And Iraq was a total side show of destruction for no reason other than making money for companies like Halliburton and Eric Prince and his mercenary army.

[Ohioboy]

7. If I remember correctly there were actually people in Afghanistan that greeted us as liberators

Then, after 20 years of trying to empower and protect those people, TFG makes a deal with their oppressors.

[twodogsbarking]

8. We are the greatest country in the world.

Love it or leave it.

This should have tipped y'all off.

[bluedevil4]

10. Who's the Kennedy

he speaks of that could have changed the direction? That was new to me

[Glorfindel]

11. He said, "Joe Biden, who admires Kennedy, could have changed things..."

n/t

[Ford_Prefect]

16. You have to listen carefully just after the reference to TFG at 0:59 sec.

"Joe Biden, who admires Kennedy... Could have changed things".

[True Blue American]

12. Just found this article

That gives a great explanation of courageous Joe Biden and why we can not have nice things.

The media has been on a hysterical rant but many are coming down to earth now that the American people want what Biden is doing. The hand wringing is ending as reality sets in.

https://www.nationalmemo.com/us-military-spending

[2Gingersnaps]

34. I have always found the "liberal media" myth laughable.

It is corporate media. Some are better, some are worse but the CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS, public airwaves do have journalistic standards that they do adhere to. Corporate cable is what I would expect it to be, BTW, that of course would not include FOX entertainment channel. Having said that, I grew up on CBS, from Walter Cronkite to Dan Rather and I was LIVID when CBS fired Dan Rather over the rather obvious Karl Rove inspired "fake document," the fact of the situation was not in dispute. Having said that, I found the coverage on CBS rather hysterical and insulting. My memory is not that short. I remember Vietnam. I remember Rumsfeld and Cheney being at that table too. I remember a CIA agent being outed for doing her job, which was tracking WMD around the globe, and not backing Cheney's bullshit. The corporate media, in the interest of "both sides" gave a raging lunatic kid glove treatment. They got more trickle down tax cuts. We received a shit show.

[True Blue American]

46. You are not alone.

The story was true.

[NJCher]

13. Re what he says at the end

So why wasn’t it a NATO combined forces type of thing?

Anybody know if this was considered or proposed?

[jaxexpat]

17. A very good question. With complex answers.

A few observations, some maybe relevant:
1. US provides most of the money and military in Afghanistan mission. If this isn't true please correct me.
2. Trump played down usefulness of NATO. Pretty sure it was at Vlad's instruction.
3. I know of no conflict wherein perpetual multi-lateral international intervention takes place on a revolving basis. At least I've not heard of any blatant success in any such endeavors. The modest(?) interventions by the UN in Africa come to mind. Can't speak to their actual effectiveness but wouldn't be shocked if Africa were to explode were all UN forces to discontinue their missions.
4. The MP speaker reminded his listeners that no one understands how Americans cannot see what a traitor on a massive scale was our Donald. I see willful blindness on the part of about 50% of our countrymen and entrenched evil in an additional 30% of them. With those numbers it's no wonder that we had so little success in doing good things on the international stage. 20% of a population does not a concerned national interest make.
5. If I were NATO or the UN I'd kick us out on general principles leaving us to clean up our own messes. (which we wouldn't do because it's real work and we're too lazy)

[NJCher]

24. NATO combined forces

thanks for attempting to answer my question. Gives me a little something to research later on today.

I recall reading (right after Biden was elected and announced to the world that "America's back&quot that he was going to encounter believability problems with that because trump has essentially shown the world that what we really are is what you describe in point 4.

[speak easy]

14. Why? Because the majority want to forget about TFG

but for those who don't, he can do no wrong.

AND, I don't remember those outraged Brits saying much at the time.

[IronLionZion]

15. Their conservatives are quite different from our conservatives

Ours think they can use this faux outrage to win next year's mid term elections.

[secondwind]

19. K&R

[certainot]

22. it's time to recognize fascist movements like the proud boys, taliban, isis, nazis

boko haram, al qaida etc as racist misogynist masturbation cults

[NJCher]

25. I couldn't get to the link but

that's ok; I can guess.

All the women from Afghanistan should be given refuge elsewhere---leave--and these Taliban guys can go jerk off in the desert by themselves.

[certainot]

51. ha! here it is sorry! 2ws in the bad link

https://www.sexonthewrongbrain.com/theory/

[liberal N proud]

23. Money and propaganda

The profiteers in America will spend money for propaganda to sell the story they want told

[Baitball Blogger]

26. Oh, and another thing. The Germans and French has soldiers in Taliban days after the evacuation

problems were obvious. Where were the Brit soldiers?

[dalton99a]

29. There are about 900 UK soldiers at the airport

[Baked Potato]

30. the President Biden criticism doesn't sit well with me. Nt

[True Blue American]

49. It backfired big time.Nicole just reported that the people are with Biden on withdrawal!

Last edited Fri Aug 20, 2021, 03:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Ari is now reporting on it. The MSM now has major egg on their face!

[Baked Potato]

54. Good to hear!

[Polybius]

31. He's coitizing Trump and Biden because he loves war

Brittan has its share of neo-cons too.

[Cha]

33. And there's this from McFaul..

Link to tweet

[2Gingersnaps]

37. Back when I was a young Dem activist......

I really liked and respected this guy, General Wesley Clark. Remember when he ran for President? The early anti woke anti cancel culture crowd ridiculed this guy who is from Arkansas for wearing a sweater vest in Ohio in the winter. Put him out of the running. But then again, remember Obama's brainiac bunch? He was one of Clinton's, Rhodes Scholar. https://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/

[True Blue American]

47. I was a huge admire of Clark.

We seldom pick the best. When we do the MSM tries to tear them apart.

I have no faith at all in the Press. They are idiots trying to get a gotcha.

[SunSeeker]

39. Russia was paying Taliban to kill US soldiers. Russia must have been involved in the deal. nt

[bdamomma]

50. I would not

doubt it. For real Russia is in the shadows.

[Vinca]

35. The media is in "trash Joe" mode. There's a pent up demand since HRH Orange Don left in Jan.

[sheshe2]

38. K&R

Thank you, George! Truth.

[progressoid]

41. And then he blames Biden.

[pansypoo53219]

44. learning curves is for pussies. google for the daily show clips.

[bdamomma]

48. maybe some

countries and officials are not obsessed by conspiracy theories. and care about truth and facts.

[Historic NY]

55. The British are free to stay in county, after all they fucked up thing in 1919 maybe they can fix it

[uponit7771]

59. Poor and oppressed people's slogans stop truthful messaging

[spanone]

61. Because our media immediately decided it was all President Biden's fault.