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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAfghanistan war neocons like George W. Bush would like you to know this isn't their fault
The neoconservatives who launched the war in Afghanistan would very much like you to know the wars ignominious ending is someone else's fault.
In The Atlantic, Tom Nichols wrote a piece titled, Afghanistan Is Your Fault, saying the loss of the war should be blamed on American voters. Former Bush administration speechwriter David Frum said we could have won the war in Afghanistan with this one little trick (namely killing Osama bin Laden in December 2001 instead of May 2011). Eliot A. Cohen a founder of the infamous neoconservative group Project for the New American Century said now was a time for for meticulous soul-searching that is without recrimination.
But very few people in American history are as due for recriminations as the neoconservative cabal in then-President George W. Bush's administration who drove us heedlessly into decadeslong conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sober analysts at the time made clear that remaking Iraq and the graveyard of empires into Western-friendly, capitalist, liberal democracies was a fools errand.
As we evaluate the failures of those efforts today, we must recognize the problem was not in the execution of the wars, or the withdrawals, but in the very idea of committing American lives and wealth to forcibly rebuilding nations across the globe to fit neoconservatives' vision of society. Their hubris and greed cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives and did more to diminish American power than our stated adversaries ever could.
While neoconservatives claim to be motivated by a commitment to promoting liberal democracy abroad, their push for war and empire was justified through lies and deception. And that played a huge part in undermining the stability of liberal democracy here at home.
There is a direct line from the loss of trust in government caused by the Bush administrations lies about weapons of mass destruction to Donald Trumps claim as a presidential candidate that I alone can fix it. The hatred and fear mobilized to justify the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan seamlessly flowed from the Bush era into the tea party and then the white nationalist movement that Trump surfed to the White House. Most importantly, the trillions spent on weapons used to bring foreign populations to heel was money that was not allocated instead to pay for desperately needed health care, education or infrastructure here at home.
More at:
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/afghanistan-war-neocons-george-w-bush-would-you-know-isn-ncna1277267
Walleye
(30,725 posts)Not reality. Nobody really knows what wouldve happened in any situation. All we know is what did happen.
Orrex
(63,086 posts)Its goal was to funnel trillions in the pockets of war profiteers, and its hard to imagine a more sweeping and total victory in this regard.
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(1,924 posts)Same for the BS war in Iraq.
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)Sandra Day O'Connor, Anton Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and the other Supreme Court members who stopped the 2000 Florida vote count, that when completed, would have rightfully given the presidency to Al Gore. Not to mention Jeb Bush and his associates, who helped his brother steal those electoral votes. But, yes. Those who made the vote close enough to steal by casting their ballots for The Village Idiot or for Ralph Nader have this on their heads, as well. None of this would have happened under President Al Gore, along with a whole lot of other stuff.
Butterflylady
(3,523 posts)So, so sad.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)worked. 45 is using the same basic model. They hate democracy and they hate this country. They want to rule, period.
calimary
(80,700 posts)True Blue American
(17,972 posts)scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)We need to learn from this. Stop pushing people around. People have to want and understand democracy to keep it.
Hotler
(11,353 posts)The only thing standing in their way was the American people. They wrote in their paper Project For A New American Century that in order to get the American people behind them they needed a "Pearl Harbor type event". They used 9/11 for that event.
Grokenstein
(5,707 posts)Almost forgot about that. And once they were done taking over those seven countries, they intended to go ahead and take over the rest of the world through everything from military invasion to economic isolation and ruin. PNAC was a cartoon supervillain's map for global domination, doomed to failure but still destined to destroy countless lives along the way.
"Are we the baddies?"
"Naw, we're the heroes. See? Wrapped the Stars and Stripes around it. That means it's good."
calimary
(80,700 posts)What they needed was a Pearl Harbor-like calamity to trigger their wet dreams of world domination. Exploiting some national tragedy for more power.
Sympthsical
(8,936 posts)A lot of neoconservatives ended up in the NeverTrump camp. Trump only arranged for the Afghanistan withdrawal because it was politically perfectly safe for him to do so. A lot of Trumpists wanted the withdrawal. Remember, he's a populist, and he would go to wherever those winds were blowing. The populist Right hasn't been gung ho about Afghanistan for a while now.
This past week, a lot of NeverTrumps are absolutely flipping on Biden. Weird, right? Because they're neoconservatives. They want that intervention (and $$$) and imperialism (and $$$) and a uni-polar world (and $$$).
I'm pretty harsh on how this withdrawal has gone, but I'm 100% in favor of Biden's policy.
Neoconservatives are not. Notice Liz Cheney refers to it as the "Trump/Biden" calamity.
This is why I have always said, "Be careful of getting too much in bed with NeverTrump. They are still neoconservatives at heart. Once he's gone, they'll turn." Getting rid of Trump served their purpose. Now, they have a new purpose.
It is not the liberal or Democratic one, rest assured.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)Carlitos Brigante
(26,483 posts)we'll take your vote. Now kindly disappear for a year or ten.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)As we have watched the rapid dissolution of the Afghan government, the takeover of the country by the Taliban and the desperate effort of so many Afghans to flee, the U.S. media have asked themselves a question: What do the people who were wrong about Afghanistan all along have to say about all this? (Sarcasm emoji appropriate here.)
Thats not literally what TV bookers and journalists have said, of course. But if youve been watching the debate, it almost seems that way.
The number of Afghanistan/Iraq hawks the ones who brought us those twin disasters in the first place who have been called on by major media organizations to offer their sage assessment of the current situation is truly remarkable.
Whether its retired generals who now earn money in the weapons industry, former officials from the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations who in many cases are directly responsible for the mistakes of the past two decades, or war enthusiast pundits with an unblemished record of wrongness, were now hearing from the same people who two decades ago told us how great these wars would be, then spent years telling us victory was right around the corner, and are now explaining how somebody else is to blame for Afghanistan.
One name you almost never hear in all the Why this is President Bidens greatest failure talk is one George W. Bush, who took us to Afghanistan... Youll have to look far and wide for an interview with someone who objected to the Afghanistan war when it began, but if you want to hear one former Bush official interview another former Bush official about what a mess Biden made, just turn on your TV.
This isnt something new. In fact, it has characterized the debate over the entirety of this period. ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/20/why-debate-afghanistan-is-so-distorted/
crickets
(25,896 posts)spanone
(135,637 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I don't think he's worried about this.
In fact he's probably a little tickled that his name is back in the news.
sigh
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)A letter circulated from a former military man who had served in Afghanistan with an NGO removing land mines.
It basically outlined a whole different type of conflict that wouldn't involve US troops and as a large part of it focus rebuilding the infrastructure of the border states such as Tajikistan.
Basically it was strategy to build on international good will in the aftermath of 9/11/01.
My understanding was that it was being discussed at the highest level. Heck Col. David Hackworth took an interest and we had a brief conversation about it.
At any rate it filled me with hope that America could engage with Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden and at the same time do some actual good in the world.
Then of course Bush went and fucked everything up.
Grins
(7,134 posts)Mere hours after the 9/11 attacks Rumsfeld was asking if it was Iraq. And he hoped it was. And then the Reich cobbled up the then Big Lie to give the neocons cover.
So we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan for the shiny and rich target over there .
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)With Afghanistan and Bin Laden being the distraction.
The Project for the New American Century spelled that out before election 2000.
For the sane amongst us it was a chance to sow and grow good will and get nations working together for the common good. And at the same time get Bin Laden.
So basically good vs evil. Evil won.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)"Mistakes were made." Oh, and the ever-popular "Nobody could have foreseen . . ."
Grins
(7,134 posts)There are only a couple issues I have with Obama, but #1 is he refused to go after the Bush administration and the far Reich for KNOWINGLY getting us into the war in Iraq.
(His trying, for his entire time in office, to work with Republicans to find a non-existent common ground is #2.)
Texin
(2,585 posts)Cheney and Rumsfeld and their dimwit puppet prezdent decided to invade first Afghanistan and then blunder into Iraq twenty years ago. They were all greedy Daddy Warbucks and oil moguls who saw a profit to be made for it. And here we are 20 years hence with some people in Washington and in the media bleating about the pullout and forgetting that first the Brits, followed by the Russians made the same mistake about colonizing Afghanistan long before we bungled into it. There was never going to be any kind of withdrawal that would not have ended exactly thus. And TFG made it worse by selling out to the Taliban.