Sanders Supports Afghan Retreat - Even If Kabul Falls (2019)

[TomCADem]

I am surprised by the critiques of the withdrawal coming from left leaning folks like John Oliver, who makes the contradictory argument that the U.S. involvement and efforts at nation building were a disaster, so the U.S. should double down and continue to try to meddle in Afghan affairs.

I think Biden and Bernie and even some Republicans came to the conclusion that the U.S. effort to impose its ideals on Afghanistan were doomed to failure, particularly since the Afghan government was so heavily dependent on the U.S. government.

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2019-11-20/sanders-supports-afghanistan-withdrawal-even-if-us-backed-government-collapses

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said Wednesday that his administration would withdraw from Afghanistan even if it precipitated the collapse of the U.S.-backed government in Kabul.

"Yes, I think it is time after spending many trillions of dollars on these endless wars, which have resulted in more dislocation and mass migration and pain in the region," Sanders said in response to a question about such a pullout from the 18-year-old conflict. "It is time to bring our troops home."

The senator from Vermont on multiple occasions has said that he would withdraw from Afghanistan, but it was not previously clear that he would follow through on that decision in light of the dire consequences. He added Wednesday that he would work with allies on withdrawing from the country.

But Sanders offered that as president he would not make such a decision through "a tweet" – a dig at President Donald Trump who has announced major national security and foreign policy decisions through the social media platform, including proposed withdrawals from Syria and reinstituting a ban on transgender troops serving openly in the military.

[CentralMass]

1. I understand the positiom and argument but our involvement in the region going back to at least our

involvement (via proxy) in the Soviet-Afghan war and our direct involvement in the last 20 created many of the problems in the region. Pulling out will have its own consequences that will almost certainly lead to future threats and issues that the US has to contend with.

[TomCADem]

3. There is no way that further involvement will erase the original sin of US/Russia ...

... fighting a proxy war in the 1980s, but given how Afghanistan served as a base for Al Queda for the 9/11 attacks, I don't think that the harms have just be one sided.

You listen to John Oliver's critique, and it is ultimately contradictory: The U.S. always screws things up by meddling in Afghanistan, so it owes it to Afghanistan to continue to meddle in its affairs:

There is no way that continued U.S. involvement would make things better. The Taliban does not wear jerseys to distinguish itself from the civilian population. Thus, when John Oliver shows scenes of Afghans who had family members who were killed by U.S. military strikes, wouldn't this continue even if the U.S. doubled down and decided not to withdraw? Are we going to tell women that we are protecting their rights, by killing friends and family members?

I think this is why everyone from Bernie on the left to members of the Trump administration on the right supported withdrawal. Biden had advocated withdrawal internally under President Obama, rather than a surge.

The U.S. should engage with Taliban, rather than isolate them, to gain some leverage. We are not going to be have any influence if we double down and continue to try to occupy Afghanistan.

[House of Roberts]

2. Nov. 20, 2019, at 10:58 p.m.

Okay...not a current quote then.

[comradebillyboy]

4. John Oliver delights in being a self-righteous scold.

I just can't stand the man.

[TomCADem]

5. I Actually Like John Oliver for the Most Part...

...but that episode had me scratching my head, since one minute he was complaining about US involvement in Afghanistan, then the next he was calling for more U.S. involvement in Afghanistan.

Personally, I thought the whole humanitarian angle for invading Afghanistan rang hollow, because it is not like the Taliban was not oppressing its people prior to 9/11. The reason why we invaded was 9/11.

Unfortunately, by introducing a self-righteous amorphous reason of reason of freeing the Afghan people from their Taliban oppressors as a reason, we set ourselves up for failure.

The U.S. has had the most success when it is not trying to micromanage the affairs of foreign country or intimidate it into opening up, because making such threats helps prop up dictators who cast the US as the "Great Satan." Look at North Korea.