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iemanja

(53,029 posts)
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 01:58 PM Aug 2021

Sirhan Sirhan seeks parole with no opposition from prosecutors

Sirhan B. Sirhan, convicted of the 1968 assassination of Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, will face a California parole board for the 16th time Friday in a prison outside San Diego. But unlike the first 15 times, no prosecutor will stand to oppose the release of Sirhan, who is now 77.

Sirhan was arrested at the scene of Kennedy’s shooting in Los Angeles on June 5, 1968, convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death for the assassination of a U.S. senator who appeared headed for the Democratic presidential nomination. The assassination, along with that of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. two months earlier, created a turning point in American history with the sudden elimination of the charismatic leaders of the American civil rights movement and the Democratic Party.

When California eliminated the death penalty, Sirhan’s sentence was reduced to life with the possibility of parole. And now Sirhan, who has been incarcerated for 53 years, may benefit from a new push among progressive prosecutors to seek the release, or not oppose the release, of convicts who have served decades behind bars, no longer pose a threat to society and will be costly to treat medically in their later years.

Newly elected Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascón told The Washington Post shortly before his inauguration in December that he was creating a sentencing review unit to revisit the cases of about 20,000 prisoners for possible re-sentencing, analyzing both the fairness of long sentences and the cost savings for releasing low-risk or older inmates. Gascón issued a directive that his office’s “default policy” would be not to attend parole hearings and to submit letters supporting the release of some inmates who had served their mandatory minimums, while also assisting victims and victim advocates at parole hearings if requested.

In Sirhan’s case, Gascón’s office is remaining neutral. The office said it will not attend the parole hearing, as Los Angeles prosecutors have done historically, but it also will not send a letter in support of Sirhan’s parole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/08/25/sirhan-parole-hearing/

He needs to stay in prison.
153 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sirhan Sirhan seeks parole with no opposition from prosecutors (Original Post) iemanja Aug 2021 OP
No parole ever Submariner Aug 2021 #1
That's ridiculous. He massively fucked over this nation. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #2
He has never shown remorse - in fact he claims he doesn't remember what happened dalton99a Aug 2021 #11
I agree. iemanja Aug 2021 #16
Born in 1973 JustAnotherGen Aug 2021 #24
53 years is sufficient...he should be paroled greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #3
I agree, 53 years is enough...Enough Said...!! Stuart G Aug 2021 #4
I agree PatSeg Aug 2021 #12
He has a younger brother muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #40
That's good PatSeg Aug 2021 #48
As always (or almost always), we find ourselves in complete agreement. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #152
Yes, it does seem to be true, doesn't it? PatSeg Aug 2021 #153
He's old, no longer a threat and has served decades. I'm fine with the idea of him being paroled Kaleva Aug 2021 #15
and shown/acknowledged no contrition whatsoever. EVER. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #31
Despite that, he's still old, no threat to others and has served decades in prison. Kaleva Aug 2021 #49
Fortunately, parole boards don't simply go on "he's old and we don't want to pay for him anymore." hlthe2b Aug 2021 #51
Trump hasn't served decades in prison and remains a threat to others Kaleva Aug 2021 #56
But, he fits your very simplistic "he is old" excuse. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #57
What about the other two points I made? Kaleva Aug 2021 #72
None of which fulfills the criteria of acknowledging culpability AND showing contrition/remorse. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #77
You act like what we say here will have an impact. It doesn't. Not one bit. Kaleva Aug 2021 #79
And, what, pray tell, are you doing? hlthe2b Aug 2021 #80
I expressed an opinion on an issue which I know none of us has has any influence on. Kaleva Aug 2021 #86
I agree with you. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #110
"How can you show remorse if you don't remember?" Apparently you think empathy is dead. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #120
I do see your point...and I can tell you grieve even to this day. But our justice system should be Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #150
I don't know JustAnotherGen Aug 2021 #22
That's a nice belief, but that wasn't his sentence, nor is it regular practice in CA greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #25
No need for parole JustAnotherGen Aug 2021 #46
Bullshit. I agreed with the overturning of his death sentence. Until he shows contrition hlthe2b Aug 2021 #33
This JustAnotherGen Aug 2021 #47
Agree. Elessar Zappa Aug 2021 #74
You do realize one is a film and the other an actual assassination, yes? LanternWaste Aug 2021 #85
Agreed. BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #5
Governor will veto parole LeftInTX Aug 2021 #6
If it comes to his desk before the recall election, he'll certainly veto greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #9
But if Newsom is recalled I could see Larry Elder letting him out nt maryellen99 Aug 2021 #97
Parole should never even be considered CanonRay Aug 2021 #7
It's his right under the current sentence to seek parole greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #10
Sure, it's his right. CanonRay Aug 2021 #18
He should receive the same treatment as any other inmate with similar charges greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #20
Yes, that's a good way to put it treestar Aug 2021 #108
Who then is denying him this right to seek parole? LanternWaste Aug 2021 #83
So was Charles Manson LeftInTX Aug 2021 #92
Let him out when he's 87. dalton99a Aug 2021 #8
He took somebody's life away. It could be said he took many lives. rockfordfile Aug 2021 #38
He murdered RFK in front of the world to see. Dawson Leery Aug 2021 #13
He should be paroled. former9thward Aug 2021 #14
You then believe prison is solely for those who pose a threat? LanternWaste Aug 2021 #84
Actually I do. You can either go for rehabilitation or punishment...and honestly the way Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #112
No way in hell. He should've been given the death penalty. rockfordfile Aug 2021 #17
He WAS given the death penalty. Treefrog Aug 2021 #21
he was iemanja Aug 2021 #23
"When California eliminated the death penalty, Sirhan's sentence was reduced to life" rockfordfile Aug 2021 #32
So you think we should have a death penalty??? hookaleft Aug 2021 #54
It's interesting to see liberals turn into staunch death penalty proponents StarfishSaver Aug 2021 #78
I often see people here say bizarre things like, NYC Liberal Aug 2021 #109
Good point StarfishSaver Aug 2021 #136
No, no and no, we should abolish the death penalty. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #113
California didn't choose to commute his death sentence StarfishSaver Aug 2021 #65
The death penalty is a barbarous relic, its continued existence in the US is so emblematic Celerity Aug 2021 #81
So true. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #114
The USSC overturned everyone's death sentence LeftInTX Aug 2021 #93
You mean this wasn't considered a federal crime? Polybius Aug 2021 #101
I couldn't tell you iemanja Aug 2021 #111
It happened in California...it is a state matter. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #115
Why? Sirhan committed his crime in California. Calista241 Aug 2021 #119
Kennedy was a sitting US Senator though Polybius Aug 2021 #127
You would love China, lots executed! Nt USALiberal Aug 2021 #82
Sounds serious, mes ami! LanternWaste Aug 2021 #87
Fix quote USALiberal Aug 2021 #88
Damn. What is up with these prosecutors? Are they all 25 yo with no memory or capacity hlthe2b Aug 2021 #19
You don't think other people convicted of shooting somebody to death, even premeditated greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #28
He was sentenced to the death penalty (which I do NOT support). Maybe when Leonard Pelletier hlthe2b Aug 2021 #29
His sentence was converted to life with the possibility of parole greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #34
Those paroled acknowledged guilt and contrion. You continue to ignore that fact as he has NOT hlthe2b Aug 2021 #36
Exactly. He deserves to be exactly where he is. Assassinations of a former Attorney General, JohnSJ Aug 2021 #42
Do you know for a fact that every person paroled expressed remorse or contrition? StarfishSaver Aug 2021 #70
I have read reports on state by state policies that indicate this is the guidance given. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #73
I Don't Understand RobinA Aug 2021 #128
It is a REQUIREMENT for most parole boards ALONG with DEMONSTRATED EVIDENCE of REHABILITATION. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #129
If I recall he still denies it Polybius Aug 2021 #100
Hell no. Murders like this should be given the death penalty or life. rockfordfile Aug 2021 #35
I consider myself to be one of his victims. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #26
You can consider what you want but you are not one of his victims. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #135
Yes I am. A large part of the country was. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #137
That is just not true. When a person is murdered, there is one victim...although it goes without Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #143
Thank you. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #146
My standard for whether or not someone should be paroled Mr.Bill Aug 2021 #27
I have no opinion either way, but his victim is still dead, an argument for Hortensis Aug 2021 #30
Fortunately most parole boards REQUIRE acknowledgement of guilt and contrition. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #37
Applying that rule equally to all without exception would Hortensis Aug 2021 #41
Depends on the parole board. Contrition and regret/remorse does not always equate with hlthe2b Aug 2021 #43
Interesting thoughts, thanks. Innocents get my concern also. Hortensis Aug 2021 #55
What the family has said in recent years muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #39
:) Could be argued everything is more relevant than our views, Hortensis Aug 2021 #45
He moght have had a much different life if he had not chosen to murder RFK. Aristus Aug 2021 #44
I don't think anyone here would care if Sirhan Sirhan had killed some low income guy Kaleva Aug 2021 #50
BS. rockfordfile Aug 2021 #52
Apples and oranges. Kaleva Aug 2021 #61
That's a fair point. BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #58
while the low income guys iemanja Aug 2021 #64
Thanks in part to CA's Three Strikes, You're Out law Kaleva Aug 2021 #69
It happens in every state iemanja Aug 2021 #71
And we both agree that's an injustice. Kaleva Aug 2021 #75
For drug offenses, certainly iemanja Aug 2021 #76
Not every state has three strike laws though. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #145
There should be no three strike laws. Washington State has them also....very barbaric. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #116
There should never be a three strike law which is used against minorities mostly and low level Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #139
Exactly and it is so wrong. I do not understand how this progressive state can continue to have such Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #144
Do those okay with him being paroled feel the same way about Leslie VanHouten? tenderfoot Aug 2021 #53
I'm fine with it. My opinion has no bearing on their fates. Kaleva Aug 2021 #60
Squeaky is out UnderThisLaw Aug 2021 #63
yes, if they have served their time and are not a danger. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #117
I Do RobinA Aug 2021 #130
1st degree murderers should be given life sentences without the possibility of parole. marie999 Aug 2021 #59
The families of victims of drunk drivers suffer just as much. Kaleva Aug 2021 #62
Drunk drivers aren't charged with 1st degree murder. marie999 Aug 2021 #91
I'm sorry many feel that if you drink and get behind the wheel of a car, you are a murderer...and in Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #138
I disagree. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #118
No, never. 👎 nt Raine Aug 2021 #66
He'll never get out, too much notoriety. edbermac Aug 2021 #67
From the dead after Nixon spiked Vietnam, and constitution, Sirhan shot the USA. denbot Aug 2021 #68
he won't get out for the same reason Leslie Van Houten won't get out Skittles Aug 2021 #89
Gason doesnt believe in harsh sentences ripcord Aug 2021 #90
Give him a token parole hearing for show then let him rot for the rest of his days behind bars Devil Child Aug 2021 #94
No way, no how. (nt) Paladin Aug 2021 #95
No parole for a crime this enormous. honest.abe Aug 2021 #96
No it wasn't... people killed almost everyday. Kennedy was a decent man by all accounts... Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #141
Yes, if anyone did what he did.. no parole. honest.abe Aug 2021 #148
When Sirhan's sentence was commuted, he was granted the possibility of parole. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #151
Post removed Post removed Aug 2021 #98
I'm entirely comfortable with the conspiracy nut definition here. NNadir Aug 2021 #104
LOL. Ignorance is bliss. elevator Aug 2021 #105
Not at all. Neither ignorance nor obsession nor conspiracy theories are of any value whatsoever. NNadir Aug 2021 #106
Many, many conspiracies exist...now, and throughout history. elevator Aug 2021 #123
Whatever. I stand by my remarks. There are serious matters... NNadir Aug 2021 #124
This thread, my god. WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2021 #99
Oh hell no nini Aug 2021 #102
To those advocating his release because he's old or whatever, Laurence Tribe's response (echoes mine hlthe2b Aug 2021 #103
This just shows the failings in our justice system where both perpetrators and victims receive Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #121
When there are multiple victims justice allows for more than the primary victim to have a voice. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #122
What multiple victims? Robert Kennedy supporter? As the poster who answered my post explained Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #133
You obviously didn't live through it and have no perspective whatsoever on hlthe2b Aug 2021 #134
I made no accusations. I believe our justice system is flawed because some victims and Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #142
I Agree RobinA Aug 2021 #131
Thank you! You said it much better than I did. Justice is anything but blind. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #132
Thank you for saying this StarfishSaver Aug 2021 #140
"RFK could have started WW3 or he could have started a pogrom to rid the country of all Communists" Devil Child Aug 2021 #149
One of the reasons being his medical treatment could get costly treestar Aug 2021 #107
What is the point of life without parole? OnlinePoker Aug 2021 #125
I can remember, years ago MissMillie Aug 2021 #126
That is a really good point MissMillie...I had never heard that...ironic indeed. Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #147

Submariner

(12,503 posts)
1. No parole ever
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:06 PM
Aug 2021

The Kennedy family have endured enough tragedies throughout the families WWII and post war experiences, let's not insult them with this slap in the face. Sirhan signed away his life FOREVER when he pulled that trigger. Period.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
2. That's ridiculous. He massively fucked over this nation.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:07 PM
Aug 2021

Let the bastard rot.

Imagine if we'd gotten RFK instead of Nixon.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
24. Born in 1973
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:37 PM
Aug 2021

My life would have been far different with RFK as opposed to Nixon. I'm a military officer's brat. Maybe I would have been born state side. Maybe my dad would have suffered less PTSD. Maybe maybe maybe . . .

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
3. 53 years is sufficient...he should be paroled
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:08 PM
Aug 2021

Plenty of people committed the same offense and have been out for years if not decades.

Enough already. These insane prison sentences we hand out are part of the carceral disaster in the US. He's served 53 years for this murder. He's 77 and no threat to anybody.

(Half the people who will oppose this tear up and nod their heads at Red's speech at the end of The Shawshank Redemption).

PatSeg

(47,397 posts)
12. I agree
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:22 PM
Aug 2021

At 77, the guy probably doesn't even have any living family members left. Let him have a few years outside of prison before he dies.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,300 posts)
40. He has a younger brother
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:05 PM
Aug 2021

From the article:

Munir Sirhan, Sirhan’s younger brother, continues to live in the family’s home in Pasadena, Calif., where they grew up after emigrating as children from Israel, as Palestinian refugees, with their parents. “His home is ready for him,” Munir Sirhan told The Post, and his neighbors have filed letters in support of Sirhan’s return. “We’re awaiting the deserved, proper decision from the parole board.”

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
51. Fortunately, parole boards don't simply go on "he's old and we don't want to pay for him anymore."
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:56 PM
Aug 2021

They are sworn to at least attempt to ensure those being paroled actually have had some minimal evidence of rehabilitation and that typically includes acknowledging their crime, culpability, and most important regret/contrition.

Trump is old. He deserves prison for the rest of his life if he is convicted of the many crimes to which there is reason to believe a prosecution could commence.

Age is not the determining factor for a decision on parole or not--nor whether justice should be sought. Fortunately. No matter how often you reply that "he's old" in this thread.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
57. But, he fits your very simplistic "he is old" excuse.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:14 PM
Aug 2021

You really need to think about this. Criminal justice is not simply a factor of how old might be the perpetrator. I find this constant refrain dismally depressing-- as if criminal justice is set by how bored we are now that enough time has passed?

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
72. What about the other two points I made?
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:45 PM
Aug 2021

He's served over half a century and from what I'm reading, isn't considered a threat to others. Neither of which apples to Trump.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
77. None of which fulfills the criteria of acknowledging culpability AND showing contrition/remorse.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:49 PM
Aug 2021

To your suggestion that he's old and not a risk to others, I'd remind you that Manson never even killed anyone himself--yet he showed no remorse, culpability, and rightfully died behind bars.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
79. You act like what we say here will have an impact. It doesn't. Not one bit.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:58 PM
Aug 2021

I'll still stand by my earlier statement that it will not bother me if he does get paroled, for the reasons I stated. Nor will it bother me if he doesn't.

I don't get excited about current issues or topics of conversation because with climate change, it's going to get Biblical for all of us soon enough.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
80. And, what, pray tell, are you doing?
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:03 PM
Aug 2021

Talk about projection.

Last I checked, this was a discussion board. YOU chose to enter into this thread, this discussion. Yet if anyone else voices an opinion, then THEY (and only THEY) are "acting as though what they or others say makes an impact." If discussion is not the point, then why are you here then?

Your snide comment aside, the truth is that Sirhan Sirhan has been up and denied parole 15 times, most recently in 2019. And, in each of those hearings, the board has made comments on the lack of remorse and admission of culpability. As, I expect most likely to again be an issue coming up.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
86. I expressed an opinion on an issue which I know none of us has has any influence on.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:33 PM
Aug 2021

My initial post was where I agreed with another DUer. You took exception to that and we discussed our differences. Nothing either of us are saying will sway the other. Agreed? So it's no longer a discussion.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
110. I agree with you.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:47 AM
Aug 2021

"Anne Perry (born Juliet Marion Hulme; 28 October 1938) is an English author of historical detective fiction, best known for her Thomas Pitt and William Monk series. In 1954, at the age of fifteen, she was convicted in the murder of her friend's mother, Honora Rieper."



I read Anne Perry's books she and a friend killed the friend's mother as they were going to separated when Honoria Rieper took the friend to Australia....now I know of a 15-year-old kid sentenced to life without parole in Georgia. Our sentencing is way to 'hang them high' for my taste. We have the most draconian laws of any civilized country IMHO. It has been 53 years. Let's show mercy. As for those who say he doesn't show remorse. He says he doesn't remember, how can you be remorseful if you don't remember doing it?
'

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
120. "How can you show remorse if you don't remember?" Apparently you think empathy is dead.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:08 AM
Aug 2021

I can show remorse for any number of things that I had nothing to do with. Slavery, bigotry, racism, homophobia, bullying... Can YOU not?!

Laurence Tribe speaks for me (and for all of us who remember the impact this ONE murder had on the entire country and our future)

Maybe give it a tiny bit of thought before your reflexive, "but he's old." Well, so was Manson and he never killed anyone.



Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw
I fail to see why Bobby Kennedy’s assassin should ever be released from prison. Even at 77, he could be a threat. And the enduring harm he inflicted was incalculable. But for his vicious act, the rest of U.S. history would’ve been different.



Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
150. I do see your point...and I can tell you grieve even to this day. But our justice system should be
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 07:33 PM
Aug 2021

blind to that. Every life is meaningful to someone or in this case many someones. I regret that this country ever had such a terrible thing as slavery...our greatest sin and we are still paying the price for it...however. I am not remorseful...I had nothing to do with slavery. I am horrified that they keep finding child victims at closed-down orphanages...the world has been a pretty terrible place for many years. I hope we can in the end make it a better place. I don't like our justice system. I would like to see three-strike laws abolished, low-level drug crimes not come with life sentences...and on and on. I just don't believe when we are talking about this...that had Sirhan Sirhan murdered an anonymous person, there would be an outcry against his release. And that shouldn't be the case...we need to strive towards equality under the law.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
22. I don't know
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:35 PM
Aug 2021

MF 45 is 75
Giuliani is 77
Charles Koch 85
Adelson 87


He could be dangerous.


I am opposed to the death penalty. Murder should be for life. You take a life, you owe a life.

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
25. That's a nice belief, but that wasn't his sentence, nor is it regular practice in CA
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:37 PM
Aug 2021

for people with his sentence.

His sentence was converted to life with the possibility of parole. He should be assessed under the same standard as others with that sentence for similar charges.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
46. No need for parole
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:28 PM
Aug 2021

Loss of freedom for the rest of your life - for a life.


I come at this from my cousin being the 13th murder (by gun shot) in Rochester NY in 1991. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. His murderer should not have face 'street justice' for being a snitch - he should have spent the rest of his life in prison.

Those of us who have experienced the murder of a loved one in this manner - have a colored view of justice. It's fair for us to 'think' the way we do.

I didn't think Squeaky Fromme should have been paroled either.

You can't take it back.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
33. Bullshit. I agreed with the overturning of his death sentence. Until he shows contrition
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:47 PM
Aug 2021

and acknowledgement of his crime, there should be no consideration for parole. That is standard for parole in most states. He has taken no responsibility and acknowledges no regret. NONE.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
85. You do realize one is a film and the other an actual assassination, yes?
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:32 PM
Aug 2021

"Half the people who will oppose this tear up and nod their heads at Red's speech at the end..."

You do realize one is a film and the other an actual assassination, yes? Conflating the two does rational thought little good.

LeftInTX

(25,231 posts)
6. Governor will veto parole
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:11 PM
Aug 2021

He has vetoed all of the Manson family's, even when the parole board recommended parole

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
9. If it comes to his desk before the recall election, he'll certainly veto
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:16 PM
Aug 2021

If it comes after, it's anyone's guess.

(Also, the fact that Leslie Van Houten and Robert Beausoleil are still in California prisons is ridiculous).

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
10. It's his right under the current sentence to seek parole
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:17 PM
Aug 2021

Why shouldn't he receive the same consideration as other inmates with similar criminal convictions?

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
20. He should receive the same treatment as any other inmate with similar charges
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:35 PM
Aug 2021

He was convicted under the California penal code. He wasn't convicted under the "World Historical Events" code.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
108. Yes, that's a good way to put it
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:12 AM
Aug 2021

where the notoriety of the crime appears to mean the punishment should be worse. Or the fame of the victim.

LeftInTX

(25,231 posts)
92. So was Charles Manson
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:59 PM
Aug 2021

All of them on death row got their sentences changed and were eligible for parole

Manson was thus eligible to apply for parole after seven years' incarceration.[74] His first parole hearing took place on November 16, 1978, at California Medical Facility in Vacaville, where his petition was rejected.[75][76]

Sirhan has been eligible for parole since 1982

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
13. He murdered RFK in front of the world to see.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:23 PM
Aug 2021

The mongrel deserves to die in solitary. If you take someone's life in such a brutal manner, you do not deserve to walk free.

Also, he hurt this country.

former9thward

(31,974 posts)
14. He should be paroled.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:24 PM
Aug 2021

He is not a threat to anyone and our prison sentences are absurdly long for even somewhat minor crimes (no, the murder of RFK was not a minor crime).

For him to remain while other people who murder get out after 12 -20 years means he is a political prison. We should not have political prisoners in the U.S. no matter who the victim was.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
84. You then believe prison is solely for those who pose a threat?
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:29 PM
Aug 2021

"For him to remain while other people who murder get out after 12 -20 years means he is a political prison..."

You are unable to perceive any other possibility other than that? Odd blinders you force yourself to wear.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
112. Actually I do. You can either go for rehabilitation or punishment...and honestly the way
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:54 AM
Aug 2021

our justice and prison systems work, we might as well put them against the wall and shoot them. People who have paid for their crimes mostly can't find jobs, can't vote, etc...And the color of justice is green (not saying this case meets the criteria but many do) where poor folks never get out for minor crimes and for the more well-to-do, Justice is certainly more merciful shall we say. I believe in mercy. Surely 53 years is enough of a punishment. It is for me anyway. Also, allow me to say, I oppose the death sentence in all cases. It is an abomination as far as I am concerned.

rockfordfile

(8,701 posts)
32. "When California eliminated the death penalty, Sirhan's sentence was reduced to life"
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:47 PM
Aug 2021

I know. That was a mistake that California made.

We're still feeling the history of that assassination. The murder should tell the truth behind it.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
78. It's interesting to see liberals turn into staunch death penalty proponents
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:50 PM
Aug 2021

solely because the victim was someone they admired.

NYC Liberal

(20,135 posts)
109. I often see people here say bizarre things like,
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:31 AM
Aug 2021

“I’m completely against the death penalty except in very specific cases.” Which…means you support it. Nobody who supports the death penalty supports it for every single crime in every case.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
65. California didn't choose to commute his death sentence
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:40 PM
Aug 2021

It was required to do so under the Supreme Court's ruling

Celerity

(43,299 posts)
81. The death penalty is a barbarous relic, its continued existence in the US is so emblematic
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:08 PM
Aug 2021

of the brutishness that still pervades the American zeitgeist.

Out of the 49 independent states in Europe, only Belarus and Russia still have it on the books. The rest have completely abolished it.

The US is on par with brutal dictatorships like Iran, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia (plus many more) and also quasi-totalitarian state governments like China in its continued use.




Calista241

(5,586 posts)
119. Why? Sirhan committed his crime in California.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:07 AM
Aug 2021

Now if he killed someone else, somewhere else, then it could have been a Federal case (or it could have been California first, and then the other state). We don't treat people differently because they're Kennedy's. Arguably, Sirhan has been treated differently. Your average gang banger, drug dealer, or carjacker convicted of murder doesn't spend 55 years in jail.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
87. Sounds serious, mes ami!
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:37 PM
Aug 2021

More serious than a mere 40 characters could ever achieve.

We wish you well, actually!!!!

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
19. Damn. What is up with these prosecutors? Are they all 25 yo with no memory or capacity
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:34 PM
Aug 2021

to appreciate the horrific nature of his crime? Obviously, relative youth doesn't always mean a difficulty in appreciating or being directed by history, but... Seems to me that anyone alive during that time is duly horrified by this.

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
28. You don't think other people convicted of shooting somebody to death, even premeditated
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:40 PM
Aug 2021

in California 50 years ago have been released on parole?

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
29. He was sentenced to the death penalty (which I do NOT support). Maybe when Leonard Pelletier
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:43 PM
Aug 2021

(whose conviction was as murky as they come) is released-- rather than continued to be incarcerated, now for more than 40 years to appease RW members of the FBI, you might have a point.

Sirhan Sirhan has NEVER acknowledged any regret whatsoever. NEVER. And that should be a part of any parole consideration.

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
34. His sentence was converted to life with the possibility of parole
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:48 PM
Aug 2021

He should be assessed under the same standard as anyone else with a similar crime/fact pattern and sentence.

People have literally committed similar crimes in the 70s and 80s and have been paroled.

Peltier is in federal prison, which has different standards. He was also convicted of two (not one) first degree murders, and received consecutive life sentences. That said, he should also receive the same consideration and treatment as others with a similar offense pattern and sentence.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
36. Those paroled acknowledged guilt and contrion. You continue to ignore that fact as he has NOT
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:52 PM
Aug 2021

I don't know many parole boards that will grant release without signs the individual sincerely regrets and acknowledges his act and thus has been rehabilitated. You seem unconcerned about this lack of contrition. and that is frankly deeply disturbing to me. If he is released, I assume you are quite willing for him to move next door to you but I'd never wish that to those who argued the need for him to show in even the most minimal way that he has been rehabilitated.

JohnSJ

(92,126 posts)
42. Exactly. He deserves to be exactly where he is. Assassinations of a former Attorney General,
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:08 PM
Aug 2021

U.S. Senator, and a probable President of the United States, is not comparable to other cases as some are trying to make in this thread, and the fact that he has shown no remorse is more than enough reason why he should not be paroled





hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
73. I have read reports on state by state policies that indicate this is the guidance given.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:46 PM
Aug 2021

Since I am at work, you will have to do your own research.

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
128. I Don't Understand
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:35 PM
Aug 2021

the emphasis on lack of contrition. Any half decent criminal can fake contrition. And even if he had contrition, how does that mean he's no longer a danger? He'll be contrite until the next time he feels like murdering someone and then he'll readily cook up a reason why the person deserves to be killed. Contrition just makes society feel better.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
129. It is a REQUIREMENT for most parole boards ALONG with DEMONSTRATED EVIDENCE of REHABILITATION.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:39 PM
Aug 2021

I don't know what you don't get. Why even bother to punish murderers? Since you believe yourself to know better, please outline YOUR CRITERIA for parole boards to follow in making their decision. You might remember that these boards take their decisions quite seriously, given they are the last line of justice for victims' families and protection for society against additional violent crimes.

I know you know better than Laurence Tribe, but he speaks for me.


Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw
I fail to see why Bobby Kennedy’s assassin should ever be released from prison. Even at 77, he could be a threat. And the enduring harm he inflicted was incalculable. But for his vicious act, the rest of U.S. history would’ve been different.



Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
143. That is just not true. When a person is murdered, there is one victim...although it goes without
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:50 PM
Aug 2021

saying that family and friends can be affected or even strangers if the case is publicized. But they are not the victims...now I will happily go away.

Mr.Bill

(24,279 posts)
27. My standard for whether or not someone should be paroled
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:38 PM
Aug 2021

is would I be okay with them living next door to me. Sirhan is a definite no on that question.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
30. I have no opinion either way, but his victim is still dead, an argument for
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:45 PM
Aug 2021

"proportional punishment" and no parole.

He's spent 53 years in prison for a crime committed as a fucked-up 24-year-old, an argument for paroling him long ago.

And the notion that we should keep him in prison to avoid insulting the Kennedy family because of all the "tragedies throughout the families WWII and post war experiences"... (!)

All problems in applying the principles of justice in the real world are absolutely nothing to how much of the citizenry would have it. Mercifully for all of us, the centuries of principles our justice system is based on mostly reflect the best of what humanity has been able to produce.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
37. Fortunately most parole boards REQUIRE acknowledgement of guilt and contrition.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:53 PM
Aug 2021

Something he has NEVER done.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
41. Applying that rule equally to all without exception would
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:05 PM
Aug 2021

seem to be an argument against parole. Are they applied rigidly, do you know, or can individual cases be considered?

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
43. Depends on the parole board. Contrition and regret/remorse does not always equate with
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:13 PM
Aug 2021

acknowledging CONSCIOUS guilt for those whose memory MIGHT be in question.


Most parole boards appear to require something more than "he's just old" as a justification. They actually do expect some remorse. I am glad that they do.

That wasn't JUST a murder of ONE man in its incredible harm. The Latino waiter who held RFK's hand against his rosary was affected his entire life. I read his account several times over the years and I carry his horror and sadness. So, too was most of the country. I will never forget. And no one else gets to forgive and unilaterally determine it is time to close the page on the behalf of ALL affected.

Again, I hope to hell the parole board requires more than just "he's old" and costing us $$ as justification. Many innocents languish in prison despite prosecution now agreeing they were indeed innocent. They get my attention and great concern. Sirhan Sirhan gets NONE.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
55. Interesting thoughts, thanks. Innocents get my concern also.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:09 PM
Aug 2021

Of course.

I believe society is at an inflection point in this regard, though; and assuming liberal principles and ideals mostly prevail, justice will also. No great hopes for improvement in human fallibilities, of course, certainly not in this era, but I have real hope that with advances in forensic science, much better ability to monitor authorities, and greater assimilation of minorities and women into all levels of society, convicting innocents will be far less possible in the future. Already is. And society's standards, expectations, and levels of acceptance will continue to rise with new norms.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,300 posts)
39. What the family has said in recent years
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:01 PM
Aug 2021

which seems more relevant than our views:

Kennedy is survived by his wife, Ethel Kennedy, and nine children, many of whom declined to comment. The family has not submitted any letters taking a position on Sirhan’s parole and have not requested to speak at Friday’s hearing.

In 2018, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told The Post that he thought that Sirhan had not killed his father and that he had met with Sirhan in prison to tell him so. Kennedy said this week that he supports Sirhan’s parole application and that he still thinks a second gunman committed the assassination but that he would not participate in the parole process and declined to comment further. Robert Kennedy Jr.’s stance against vaccines, most recently the coronavirus vaccine, has drawn controversy.

Former Maryland lieutenant governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend said in 2018 that she supported her brother’s call for a reinvestigation of their father’s assassination. She declined to comment before the parole hearing, as did human rights activist Kerry Kennedy and former congressman Joseph P. Kennedy II.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
45. :) Could be argued everything is more relevant than our views,
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:24 PM
Aug 2021

conceivably even the Kennedy family's preferences for this man's life.

Kathleen's opinion on the investigation seemed worth considering, though. Her brother's become increasingly given to irrational and malicious conspiracy theories over the years, and I wouldn't trust him to name his favorite ice cream.

Aristus

(66,316 posts)
44. He moght have had a much different life if he had not chosen to murder RFK.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:15 PM
Aug 2021

I think having him think about that in prison for the rest of the life he made for himself is appropriate.

rockfordfile

(8,701 posts)
52. BS.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:58 PM
Aug 2021

Just like the pos murder that killed the father in Texas on the highway and his kids drive the car to a place to get help. Hopefully they catch the person and give him or her the death penalty or life.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
61. Apples and oranges.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:27 PM
Aug 2021

You are talkin about a guy who hasn't been caught yet and we are talking of a prisoner who has served over 50 years in prison and is up there in years.

BannonsLiver

(16,369 posts)
58. That's a fair point.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:17 PM
Aug 2021

Also a fair point: The whole “Well, he did a bad thing a long time ago but he’s old and all, and you know, it was a really long time ago” argument is pretty weak tea.

iemanja

(53,029 posts)
64. while the low income guys
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:36 PM
Aug 2021

particularly African Americans, remain in prison for a lifetime for charges less serious than murder.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
75. And we both agree that's an injustice.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:47 PM
Aug 2021

In those cases, I wouldn't mind if they got paroled after serving 50+ years, are considered to be not a threat to others and are up there in years. I think you'd agree with me.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
139. There should never be a three strike law which is used against minorities mostly and low level
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:36 PM
Aug 2021

offenders. It is a disgrace that California has such a law and Washington state too.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
144. Exactly and it is so wrong. I do not understand how this progressive state can continue to have such
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:52 PM
Aug 2021

a law...Washington state too.

tenderfoot

(8,426 posts)
53. Do those okay with him being paroled feel the same way about Leslie VanHouten?
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:03 PM
Aug 2021

How about Squeaking Fromme?

UnderThisLaw

(318 posts)
63. Squeaky is out
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:35 PM
Aug 2021

And she hasn’t pointed a gun at anyone since.
Whether Van Houten, who was not present for Tate, inflicted any fatal injuries the second night is uncertain. I doubt if she is a threat to anyone now

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
59. 1st degree murderers should be given life sentences without the possibility of parole.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:24 PM
Aug 2021

When you murder someone you change the lives of everyone who loved them.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
62. The families of victims of drunk drivers suffer just as much.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:31 PM
Aug 2021

We have a DUer who lost a daughter to a drunk driver. I don't think the drunk driver got life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
138. I'm sorry many feel that if you drink and get behind the wheel of a car, you are a murderer...and in
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:34 PM
Aug 2021

most civilized countries...murderers do not spend a lifetime in prison...except for the most heinous crimes where the person may be a danger still...they get out. Our laws are dreadful IMHO...hang them high in the US is how I view it.

edbermac

(15,937 posts)
67. He'll never get out, too much notoriety.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:41 PM
Aug 2021

Like the creep who killed Lennon, he’ll be there until he dies.

denbot

(9,899 posts)
68. From the dead after Nixon spiked Vietnam, and constitution, Sirhan shot the USA.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:42 PM
Aug 2021

Rot there you bastard.

Skittles

(153,147 posts)
89. he won't get out for the same reason Leslie Van Houten won't get out
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:49 PM
Aug 2021

it's not what they did, it's who they did

ripcord

(5,333 posts)
90. Gason doesnt believe in harsh sentences
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 05:51 PM
Aug 2021

He refuses to file firearms and hate crime sentencing enhancements.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
141. No it wasn't... people killed almost everyday. Kennedy was a decent man by all accounts...
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:38 PM
Aug 2021

but we should all be equal under the law.

Response to iemanja (Original post)

NNadir

(33,512 posts)
104. I'm entirely comfortable with the conspiracy nut definition here.
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 10:37 PM
Aug 2021

To my mind, by definition there is nothing "to agree" on here. A nut is a nut is a nut.

 

elevator

(415 posts)
105. LOL. Ignorance is bliss.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:16 AM
Aug 2021

That is what the folks who do these things rely on. You must be very happy.

NNadir

(33,512 posts)
106. Not at all. Neither ignorance nor obsession nor conspiracy theories are of any value whatsoever.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 06:15 AM
Aug 2021

All three are doing vast damage in the world.

 

elevator

(415 posts)
123. Many, many conspiracies exist...now, and throughout history.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:48 AM
Aug 2021

Synonyms for conspiracies include plan, collaboration, collusion, strategem, scheme, plot and many other common words that describe everyday things that are happening everywhere in the world.

One does not have to be obsessed to know conspiracies exist. It is all about doing enough research and using common sense to know which are factual.

Denial of the truth is doing more harm than the three things you listed.

NNadir

(33,512 posts)
124. Whatever. I stand by my remarks. There are serious matters...
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:20 AM
Aug 2021

...before humanity and I have little time or interest in kooky stuff.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
103. To those advocating his release because he's old or whatever, Laurence Tribe's response (echoes mine
Wed Aug 25, 2021, 10:32 PM
Aug 2021
Maybe you are too young to recognize this wasn't just any murder. Maybe you have no idea the implications for this country for more than half a century following, especially in light of the murders of JFK and MLK preceding. But, that is why those of us who either remember or are ardent students of history say, NO. This is not just any crime, not just any murder. Even if you believe there was a possibility of more than one shooter...


Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw
I fail to see why Bobby Kennedy’s assassin should ever be released from prison. Even at 77, he could be a threat. And the enduring harm he inflicted was incalculable. But for his vicious act, the rest of U.S. history would’ve been different.



Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
121. This just shows the failings in our justice system where both perpetrators and victims receive
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:11 AM
Aug 2021

justice according to their perceived worth in society. Justice should be blind. The homeless guy down the street who is killed in a drive-by shooting should receive the same level of concern and justice as a well-connected person. And, we incarcerate people of color at a higher rate and for decades longer than a white person for the same crime in general.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
122. When there are multiple victims justice allows for more than the primary victim to have a voice.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:13 AM
Aug 2021

And I've seen no one here who would advocate less justice (parole with no contrition, no remorse, nor rehabilitation) for the murderer of a homeless man or anyone else. That is a wickedly irresponsible accusation.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
133. What multiple victims? Robert Kennedy supporter? As the poster who answered my post explained
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:27 PM
Aug 2021

such sentiments are speculative at best. We don't know if Kennedy would have won or what he would have done if he did win. Justice needs to accord people from all walks of life equal justice...don't we say 'equal justice under the law...well it doesn't exist...but it should.

hlthe2b

(102,220 posts)
134. You obviously didn't live through it and have no perspective whatsoever on
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:30 PM
Aug 2021

the impacts of RFK's assassination so soon after JFK and MLK. Those of us who lived through it AND take the lessons of history to heart look at it quite differently. Fortunately, not all ignore the lessons of history.

I have to say that I find your comments distressingly uninformed. If you are very young, I can understand and would normally try fevently to be more patient and to help you to do so. However, you made a very ugly accusation towards those who disagree with you that they don't care about the average person murdered, including the homeless, yet have not corrected yourself nor apologized. So, I am ending my discussion with you. I find that beyond a mere hyperbolic comment.

Demsrule86

(68,543 posts)
142. I made no accusations. I believe our justice system is flawed because some victims and
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:47 PM
Aug 2021

perpetrators are judged more or less equal depending on their perceived worth to society. You are right, I have no memory of any of the murders you discuss. However, I do believe that we should all be judged equally under that law...it is horrifying to me that we are one of the few countries with a death penalty and that people can rot for decades in prison for very minor crimes. This man has served a lifetime in prison and the identity of the victim should not matter. It is not uncommon to release even murders at the end of their lives when they are not a danger to society after they have served many years in prison. All lives should be considered precious. and all should receive equal justice.

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
131. I Agree
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 01:00 PM
Aug 2021

and I'm surprised at Tribe who usually knows better. This is why I hate victim impact statements. The crime involved when a toothless, drug-addicted, homeless guy with no family to come to court and recite tearjerking stories about the impact of his death when he gets run down by a drunk driver is the same as if the drunk hit a young family guy with babies and a pretty wife.

Plus, saying that Sirhan killing RFK made a huge difference in our country is speculative at best and should not be something criminal penalties are based on. RFK could have started WW3 or he could have started a pogrom to rid the country of all Communists. He could have turned Vietnam into a model Democracy and ended our dependence on fossil fuel. We'll never know.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
140. Thank you for saying this
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 05:37 PM
Aug 2021

The overuse of victim impact statements in our criminal justice system is proof positive that our society values some lives over others.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
149. "RFK could have started WW3 or he could have started a pogrom to rid the country of all Communists"
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 06:44 PM
Aug 2021

That is some serious what-if'n.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
107. One of the reasons being his medical treatment could get costly
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:09 AM
Aug 2021

Seems a bit more punitive to release him so he can't get it? Though he'd qualify for Medicaid, as he would not have any money.

MissMillie

(38,548 posts)
126. I can remember, years ago
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:32 AM
Aug 2021

A comedian making a joke about Sirhan's arguments for his parole. Sirhan used to argue that RFK would approve of his parole.

The comedian noted the irony that Sirhan killed the ONE PERSON that approved of his parole.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Sirhan Sirhan seeks parol...