A friend is taking Ivermectin.

[3catwoman3]

My husband was on the phone yesterday with a next-door neighbor at a small lake property we are fortunate enough to have inherited from my parents. In the course of their conversation, it came up that this man is treating himself with ivermectin. If he feels any symptoms that he thinks might possibly be COVID related, he takes ivermectin for 3 days with orange juice, after which he claims to "feel fine." Not vaccinated, of course, and apparently does not get tested if experiencing symptoms,, just randomly self-treats.

This is someone we have known since 1988. Very intelligent from an IQ point of view - PhD in mechanical physics. Retired college prof, among other things. Excellent problem solver and can build/fix almost anything. Interesting to talk with. Adored my parents and was helpful to them in their later years. He and my husband share a passion for building model airplanes.

Unfortunately, he is also a Trump supporter, and NRA member, and belongs to the local chapter of the Tea Party.

He recommended that my husband check out a Dr. Lee Merritt, from whom he is apparently getting his information, and stressed that she is a graduate of the med school at the University of Rochester, where all his degrees are from, and where my own nursing BSN is from.

Merritt is AN ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON. Now retired. Orthopedics - not internal medicine, not infectious disease, not tropical medicine. She is affiliated with America's Frontline Doctors (AFLD), who boast among their members Dr. Stella Immanuel, the wacko woman from Nigeria who claims that sex with demons while you are asleep is responsible for gynecologic problems. Belonging to an organization that would have someone that fucked up as one of their members tells me all I need to know about Dr. Merritt.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/back-away-americas-frontline-doctors

Much as we have enjoyed this man and his wife, our feelings about them began to change when we learned they voted for McCain and then Romney, and it got worse when we saw Trump banners on their house. Our little lake property is in the Finger Lakes area of New York, and we live outside of Chicago, so we are only there a couple of times a year, which limits our contact with this couple. When we were last there in May, I kept my distance as much as possible.

I don't get how intelligent people can be hoodwinked by this bullshit.

[harumph]

1. dementia

[Texin]

33. Nah, you're looking for a logical reason for his behavior when none exist.

These people, many of whom are educated and otherwise intelligent, want to believe this horseshit. It's their religion and tRump and his sycophants and acolytes are the god and disciples of their religion.

[NewHendoLib]

2. cult member, so his smarts and education are worthless

[lagomorph777]

6. Yup, he tossed reason out the window.

Avoid that idiot like the plague. Because he likely will spread the plague at some point.

[Wicked Blue]

3. At least he'll be wormed

[Ocelot II]

4. Well, at least he won't have problems with horse parasites.

Too bad ivermectin doesn't work on the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but he'll probably have to learn that the hard way.

[HipChick]

5. My neighbor breathless tells me how he has stocked up on

Ivermectin..
and treating his whole family with it...

He has a Phd, and govt employee up until his recent retirement..

I told him if he keeps taking it, he prob won't get to enjoy most of his retirement....he rolls his eye at me, and walks away

This is a house, where even before covid, ambulance's would roll up to, to cater for whatever latest emergency he or his wife's underlying issues were having

cult thinking does not have an intelligence level

[nolabear]

7. Intelligence comes in many forms.

Some of the “smartest” and “most talented” people I have known, and treated in my therapy practice, are capable of incredibly complex tasks or acts of creative genius, but lack the ability to trust, or to empathize, or were deeply troubled in other ways. There are many kinds of intelligence and many ways to try to get overwhelming emotional needs met. Sometimes they’re shocking to those of us who think of ourselves as part of a generally familial world and try to be part of it.

As the saying goes, “Nought’s as queer as folk.” 🤷🏼‍♀️

[viva la]

8. Can you ask him about the bowel implications?

Is there indeed the explosive diarrhea?

[lucca18]

9. I really don't get it either.

It really boggles my mind.
Sorry about your friends as it can be so exasperating.

[Orrex]

10. Livestock medication should only be taken when your condition is stable.

[sdfernando]

14. Ba-dum-dum!

[Orrex]

21. I used that same joke on Facebook

And I was attacked by well-meaning people who howled that humans should never take livestock medication.

I didn't have the heart to tell them.

[sdfernando]

25. To live life without a sense of humor would be hell on earth! /nt

[Ocelot II]

15. Badda boom.

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

[Pinback]

32. From what I've been reading, this is the mane takeaway.

And of course any medical advice should be thoroughly vetted. I'd hate to be saddled with neigh-bors like the ones the OP refers to. They may not be around furlong.

[erronis]

43. Too cute by at least 5. You forgot the requisite 'horsing around'.

[Pinback]

48. Oh, get off your high-horse!

[intrepidity]

50. Or if you have a horse throat nt

[Shrike47]

11. As an aside: McCain and Romney look relatively sane to me now. Much better than TFG.

[Salviati]

24. True, but they were both steps on the staircase that brought us here...

Hell, romney is still in the Senate. He's still part of the problem, he might make sounds of disagreements about their current methods, but he's not complaining about the results.

[louis-t]

12. Don't let him in your house.

I hear explosive diarrhea is a common side effect.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

13. Why argue with Anti-vaxxer?

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

26. +1. They are not worth your time or energy.

[Sneederbunk]

16. Whatever you do, do not stand behind him.

[obamanut2012]

17. hahahahaha

[magicarpet]

18. Keep your distance......

[Bayard]

19. Wonder if he's taking the apple flavored Ivermectin, or plain?

[maxsolomon]

20. I assume his Tiger-Repelling Amulet is working well, too?

No tiger attacks, hence, proof it works!

[Sanity Claws]

22. Is his name Mr. Ed?

[FarPoint]

23. Just a thought...

All this unnecessary deworming ...high possibility of altering ones natural GI flora and risk chronic diarrhea...

[eissa]

28. Almost the exact situation with my former boss

Highly intelligent professor with a PhD in engineering. His wife, while also smart (has her Masters) has always been quite the fundamentalist, and he always seems to just follow her lead. Once their kids were school-aged, she moved the family out into the country, homeschooled all of them through high school, and tried to isolate them as much as possible. Was always the kind to disparage doctors, even before the pandemic ("they don't know what they're talking about," etc.) So I wasn't surprised that her conspiracy-mindednesses led her down the anti-vax path. The couple and their kids and spouses went on vacation recently and nearly all of them came down with covid. She did some doctor shopping until she found one who would prescribe them the horse medicine, and insists they're all fine because of it. A friend tried to argue with her, and all she's met with is "do your research." It's hopeless.

[Pinback]

38. Engineer Syndrome

"I know a lot about some really complex subjects, so I'm an expert in everything!"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Engineer%20Syndrome

[diane in sf]

45. That's my brother and his wife, and my other brother. Glad I escaped that level of delusion.

[mainer]

29. Lots of really conservative people in the Finger Lakes

Ithaca may be a bright blue dot, but it's surrounded by some real rednecks.

[sanatanadharma]

30. They are wrong, those who take animal medicine...

They are wrong, taking animal medicine, but if they self-identify as beasts, who am I to dispute their self-unawarenesss.

The beastly do as the beastly are.

[ismnotwasm]

31. Recently, we had a patient with a severe maggot infection, in a very difficult area

Couldn’t schedule surgery right away. This not my usual area of expertise but…this is hospital nursing right now. It’s a giant shit show we are trying to maintain in a semblance of order and safety

We gave that patient Ivermectin. Maggots. MAGAts— is there a connection there?

[Mr.Bill]

34. The answer is he's not intelligent.

When someone with an IQ of 90 goes to college and gets any kind of a degree, you then have someone with a college degree and an IQ of 90.

[Caliman73]

35. Academic and functional intelligence, does not guarantee emotional intelligence.

This is something that Americans, though I cannot be sure it is only Americans, do not seem to understand about intelligence. We see people with PhD's, MD's, engineers, etc... as "intelligent" and somehow less prone to falling for bullshit than less educated people. Statistically, that is an accurate view. Typically the more education you have, the more developed, critical thinking skills are. The more you likely know about how to judge the validity of sources.

That does not however, make you impervious to logical fallacies and it for sure, does not make you immune to emotional manipulation. This is where right wingers excel. For all their talk (Ben Shapiro) about rationality and "facts don't care about your feelings", the right wing operates almost entirely on an emotional level. They appeal to grievance, to fear, and they encourage a sense that you belong to a group of "free thinkers" when you hop on to their conspiracies. Same as "Flat Earthers" they tell you, "Trust your senses" when human senses are some of the least reliable methods of recording and interpreting sensory information. That doesn't mean that they are worthless, but it means that scientists have had to develop methods to test observation repeatedly, to clear away the noise that is caused by our senses.

The government has given most people a reason to doubt some of the information they provide. There are interests out there that actually want to provide narratives that help them retain power and influence. Look at how the right wing of the political spectrum is actually quite smaller than the mainstream in thought in this country, however, they hold the majority of the power. That is the manipulation and they would like people to believe that it all stems from a "liberal elite" including academic institutions and public servants (Democratic public servants only, of course).

When you are emotionally aroused, your critical thinking skills are diminished. When you are angry or afraid, you are less likely to check your sources or notice subtle messaging. Especially if the information fits in line, somewhat, with your preconceived ideas. It certainly works easier on people with less education, but again, even people who are highly educated are not immune. This is why right wingers RARELY argue on facts or policies. They argue on process, they argue in bad faith, using the constructs of "liberal" thought (tolerance to new ideas, debate, empiricism) but they use them corruptly and only when it serves their purpose.

If Ivermectin were studied and found to have robust effect in treating COVID-19, liberals would no doubt, read the science, try to understand it, or take the word of trusted scientists about its efficacy. This would be irrespective of who had proposed it or promoted it. Right wingers on the other hand, would not (at least publicly) accept any proof from a liberal administration, because to them, the political fight is more important than actually arriving at something beneficial to society. It is all an emotional process, which is why facts and logic rarely work to counter them.

[Ocelot II]

47. I think you're right. Political identity is driving so much of this,

at least for Trump cultists. Anything a Democratic administration proposes must be bad, no matter what it is or who created it, so they will look for and believe any alternative. Therefore, a free, safe and effective vaccine for covid is bad because a Dem administration is promoting it. Horse de-worming medication, which is being promoted by "alternative," pro-Trump doctors and talking heads, is good - even though there is no scientific proof that it works. It's all about belonging to your club.

[Hortensis]

36. At least you're unlikely to get scabies from him.

I wonder what E&O insurers are making of new insights into the cognition of some of the professionals they cover, for instance significant numbers of fact-free and actively delusional physicians and nuclear plant operators? Have actuaries started gathering data to see if this affects their risk assessments?

[totodeinhere]

37. Let him take it. If it kills him that's what he gets for being so stupid.

I don't care what his credentials are, if he takes that drug he is stupid.

[bucolic_frolic]

39. Quackadoodle doctoring is enough to give alternative medicine a bad reputation, or even

tighter regulatory control, and that's a shame. There are alternatives to many disease treatments. At least in the communities I've lived in, there are alternative MD's about every 40 miles. Changes in diet, nutritional supplements, slow diagnosis, and alternative methods are available for a lot of things, some of which might be considered 'old time doctoring.' It's a shame to see quackery being accepted in place of any kind of actual medical treatment, be they standard care, alternative care, or mainstream care.

[hay rick]

40. People are smart about some things, dumb about others.

That occasionally surprises me, but doesn't bother me. The deficiency in educated Trump supporters isn't in intelligence, it's in empathy and decency.

[Slammer]

41. quack duck quack America's Frontline Doctors

"She is affiliated with America's Frontline Doctors"

That organization makes money selling televisit "medical consultations" at 90 bucks a pop. They don't accept medical insurance for reasons which are very quack duck quack duck quack quack quack obvious to me.

And they invariably give you the advice to buy hydroxychloroquine and/or Ivermection from them.

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/treatments/how-do-i-get-covid-19-medication/

I forget whether I was watching MSNBC or CNN last week but I saw an excellent expose' of the organization.

One important thing on their website FAQ page
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/about-us/faqs/

HOW DO I FIND AN AFLDS DOCTOR NEAR ME?
AFLDS currently does not have doctors treating patients outside of their practice. We are working towards having AFLDS clinics all around the country. Stay tuned!


Okay, so they don't have doctors who are treating patients outside their practice.

So who or what is doing their "medical consultation" televisits (which they don't accept medical insurance for) to instruct people that they should buy (from them) and take hydroxychloroquine and/or Ivermection whether or not they have COVID?

[3catwoman3]

51. I just retired after 45 years as a peds nurse practitioner. My former practice started....

...doing telemedicine visits after COVID hit last spring as a way to try to keep some revenue coming in - no one wanted to physically come to the office.

I hated telemedicine. I didn't feel like I could adequately assess my patients. If I can't see it, auscultate it, or palpate it, I don't want to diagnose it.

There were other reasons I was ready to hang up my stethoscope. Telemedicine was the proverbial straw that broke this camel's back. I miss doing well baby visits, but otherwise am thrilled and relieved to be done.

[Slammer]

52. pain

In my experience as a patient, telemedicine was fantastic for my pain doctor specialist visits.

A few number of years back the government made it so that your GP couldn't proscribe pain medicines for chronic problems. Instead I have to go and pay a specialist for a doctor visit every three months to confirm that I still have the life-long problems that I have because I'm still alive. So I go tell the doctor that, pay him a large wad of money, and he writes refills for my four pain medicines (migraines, deformed vertebrae, fibromyalgia, and a muscle relaxer).

Yes, doctor, I'm still in a large amount of pain despite the medicine. No, doctor, I don't want more medicines because with my other medical problems, more pain medicine would leave me unable to function in my present marginal manner. No, doctor, I don't want different medicines because of the choices you've presented me, I wouldn't be able to function if I took them. Please write me the same prescriptions for the same medicines I've been taking for 20+years. And I'll see you again in three months to pay you a large wad of money and tell you exactly the same thing.

[3catwoman3]

53. I think telemedicine is very well suited for situations...

...such as yours, or counseling, nutritional advice, and other on-going management scenarios with an established diagnosis.. I'm glad it made your life easier.

I think it is completely inadequate for new onset illnesses involving fevers, coughs, sore throats, ear aches, swollen glands or abdominal pain. Especially in babies or young children. One of my now-former colleagues said the only thing he felt he could say with any degree of confidence was, "The child looks/acts sick," or "The child does not look/act sick."

[lindysalsagal]

42. Do these fools explain the biology of how ivermectin effects virus cells?

Has anyone sued faux or other outlets who broadcast this tripe?

[4 more years]

44. Waste of time

This discussion is a total waste of time. Some people think they know science when in fact they don’t. Guess who those people are ?

[DSandra]

46. George Carlin said it best

See if you want to know why smart people can do stupid things

[LymphocyteLover]

49. Oh. God. So depressing

[Blue Owl]

54. Insanity