We should not waste our time and money attempting to build democracies around the world.

[kentuck]

We should fix our own.

There is no Taliban or ISIS terrorist as dangerous as those in the membership of the Republican Party.

If the American people cannot see this, then woe is America.

And it is not just those white supremacists out in the hinterlands. It is elected Republicans sitting in the Congress of the United States.

We have much too big of a problem with our own democracy to worry about anyone else around the world.

The American people need to wake up.

[louslobbs]

1. +1

[abqtommy]

2. I agree. I've been thinking lately that "nation building" is a lot like "colonialism"

and history shows what a failure colonialism has been. And nation building too, for
that matter.

[Biophilic]

7. Ya think? I think it is exactly like colonialism, it just wears a different coat.

The whole point was to "own" a country, to control it's finances and resources. I don't see any major difference between the 2. The US was just very late coming to the party compared to the European countries. But we made up for being late my being very "large". It was and is all about the white men helping the brown people while they robe them blind. We do a little good on the side, which the British and others did also, but the end result is still the same. The only ones who really benefit are the colonial/nation builders.

[2naSalit]

24. +1

[WHITT]

3. No Country

has become a democracy by having it imposed upon them from the outside or by the barrel of a gun. The native population must want it and be willing to fight for it.

[Snarkoleptic]

4. Time to reimport democracy!

n/t

[certainot]

23. the dominant paradigm for hundreds of thousands of years is

sex on the wrong brain, which is why humans, which started as apes/chimps and 50-50 right and left handed are now 90% right handed

[stopdiggin]

5. thoroughly disagree

promoting democratic goals around the globe -along with human rights, civil rights, climate change, and a whole handful of other 'ethical musts' - is not something I feel like putting on hold for the next two generations - while we "fix" democracy in the U.S. Neither do I see any solid reasoning why these goals are (or in fact really can be) mutually exclusive.

Respectfully - the 'isolationism' thing - the "to worry about anyone else around the world" - has just never had any kind of real draw for me, either emotionally or intellectually - and I see no reason why a modern democracy cannot engage both the Republican party and the Taliban (and N.Korea, and Turkey, and Iran, et.al.) at the same time. In fact, I see it as kind of our responsibility.

[kentuck]

6. I take it that you do not see our own democracy as being under threat?

You cannot chew gum and fix your own democracy at the same time.

[stopdiggin]

10. contraire! I do think our democracy can

use serious work. In fact - there is a good bit of your OP that I agree with. The part I don't agree with is the "stay home and tend to our own" bent. I do not think that is either ethical, wise - or even particularly workable.

(and I think the "walk and chew gum" metaphor is supposedly used in illustration of something that can be accomplished at the same time)

[Elessar Zappa]

9. Well, we're out of Afghanistan

so we won’t be engaging the Taliban militarily, if that’s what you meant. Diplomatically, maybe, depending on how the Taliban acts.

[stopdiggin]

12. No. I did NOT mean militarily

nor did I mean to suggest that option for N.Korea, Iran .. et.al.
(might make an exception for the GOP .. .. )

But I should have made that clearer in my first post.

[uponit7771]

14. How do we sell democracy around the world after 2022? No seriously ?! How in the world after

... GQP voter denial and nullification in 2022 can we claim this is a democracy ?!

They gain power back in congress they are .. ***NOT*** ... going to give it up peacefully.

We can't GOTV and brute force voter access denial and nullification laws.

thx in advance

[stopdiggin]

18. we are not the only democracy on the planet

and we are also not the only 'democracy' that is drifting and under stress. So your point .. ? We should not promote democratic values and goals?

I agree with a good deal of the OP - with the exception of the 'isolationist' bent. And, on that I think history (and a certain ethical imperative) are firmly in my corner. You are free to disagree.
----- -----

[kentuck]

20. It's going to be difficult to "promote" democracy if you are no longer a democracy.

After our democracy is preserved and respected, then we spread it all around. Just my opinion.

[stopdiggin]

25. 'our' democracy

will most likely never be admired or respected to the extent it once was (nor, probably should it). Doesn't mean we should stop advocating democratic values and mores. For ourselves - and others.

My opinion.

[kentuck]

26. I could agree with that!

[uponit7771]

27. +1, true

[roamer65]

8. Given the coming expansion of the Sino-Russian empire...

we will be lucky if we maintain our sphere of influence in the Americas.

Canada and selected northern states should look at amalgamation with the EU.

[Wounded Bear]

11. Hear, hear! nt

[Rhiannon12866]

13. Agreed, we have enough work to do here at home

TFG has unleashed those who oppose democracy and human rights, we have a million fires to put out here at home.

[kimbutgar]

15. The american tailiban is today's Republican Party.

When I see those jerks protesting about mask mandates at school board meetings they remind me of those tailiban who want to suppress women. When I see those anti abortion activists they remind me of the Taliban and when we see those republicans pass laws to make it harder to vote I think American Taliban.

They must be stopped.

And the right wing media must pay consequences for dividing this country and being traitors.

The other day I was talking with Dish about the raise in my raises and told them to take off Fox, Newsmax and all those Christofascist stations to lower my bill. They lowered my bill when I threatened to go to cable instead. But I don’t want that shit and I don’t want to pay for it.

[kentuck]

16. Sometimes I think they are less likely to change than the Taliban.

Last edited Wed Sep 1, 2021, 12:27 AM - Edit history (1)

There is not that much difference between them, in my opinion.

(on edit) However, that is my opinion and I could be totally wrong.

[VarryOn]

21. Even with all their flaws, Republicans are nothing like the Taliban or ISIS...

With all due respect, I don't think you appreciate how brutal the Taliban and ISIS are. They have no problem putting you face down, putting a foot between your shoulder blades, pulling your head back by your hair, and sawing your head off...literally. And look at what they do to women and girls.

I know many Republicans. Some are friends and family. They maybe wrong on most things and are too often obnoxious. But, even with the worst, I've never been afraid they'd kill me or strap on a bomb and walk into a crowd of people like those jihadist animals.

[appalachiablue]

17. Taliban is right. Good on you, they should loose

the growing con/RW channels, and Sinclair that bought up local TV stations in all brands, too bad. No luck though.

[patphil]

19. Using military force to impose democracy on another nation is destined to fail from the start.

Our policy of "nation building" is really a policy of destruction, with the misguided belief that we can somehow create a free and open society on the ashes of what we destroy.
It is a thinly disguised process of pursuing our own agenda at the expense of the nation we have invaded.

It doesn't work.
Not for us, not for them.

[certainot]

22. if americans (democrats+) want to democratize the world, recognize that authoritarianism is

a heritable masturbation problem, and start spreading the antidote

the koran spells out the secret of authoritarian power and the main obstruction of democracy - "man can only have sex with his wife and that which the right hand possesses".

other major religions took a more subtle approach and used omission, guilt, and sexual repression to advance authoritarianism.

the koran actually tells boys and young men that if they can't afford slaves and captives and are going to cheat (celibacy -ha!), they can only cheat with the right hand, which is connected to the left brain - which causes a heritable mmental disorder - sex on the wrong brain, the major source of greed, authoritarianism, racism, misogyny, stupidity, and more

[Johnny2X2X]

28. Free Trade leads to Democracy

Opening up countries for trade is what spreads Democracy the best, always has been that way. Nothing puts more pressure on oppressive governments than business leaders and a population getting a taste of modern life through trade.

So, the US can put more pressure on countries like Afghanistan through diplomacy and trade than they ever could at the point of a gun.

[Mopar151]

29. We tore down functioning democracies around the world.

In favor of hired mobs and planted stooges, to further (exploitative) "American Interests". See "War is a Racket" [Gen Smedley Butler), The Devil's Chessboard {biography of Allen Dulles}.

[Irish_Dem]

30. Also we have lost the moral high ground to sell our way of life.

We are hypocrites selling democracy when we are headed for minority rule.

White male supremacist leadership waging war on women, minorities and those favoring democracy.
The GOP trying to overthrow the government to protest a legitimate election.

The GOP deliberately killing off American citizens for political gain.
A racist American populace who goes along with all of this.

Why should we sell this crap to anyone?

[liberalla]

31. Agreed! We need to devote our time and effort to secure free and fair VOTING for all. IMO.

All US citizens who qualify, that is. We don't have a democracy without that.