HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » How to reconcile the "qui...

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:03 PM

How to reconcile the "quite legal" J6 Rally and the "quite illegal" J6 Riot?

I see MANY people conflating the rally and the riot, as if the planning for the rally was planning for the riot.

The rally was permitted... gatherings near the Capitol were also granted permits.



What evidence is there of an organized conspiracy to attack the Capitol building, other than a couple 3%'ers or PB's texting each other?

33 replies, 1262 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply How to reconcile the "quite legal" J6 Rally and the "quite illegal" J6 Riot? (Original post)
WarGamer Sep 2021 OP
Elessar Zappa Sep 2021 #1
Champp Sep 2021 #2
WarGamer Sep 2021 #3
Champp Sep 2021 #25
Mr.Bill Sep 2021 #23
Under The Radar Sep 2021 #4
WarGamer Sep 2021 #7
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #12
Under The Radar Sep 2021 #31
calimary Sep 2021 #5
WarGamer Sep 2021 #6
cadoman Sep 2021 #14
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #17
Tomconroy Sep 2021 #20
calimary Sep 2021 #30
spooky3 Sep 2021 #8
gulliver Sep 2021 #9
uponit7771 Sep 2021 #10
WarGamer Sep 2021 #11
uponit7771 Sep 2021 #13
LanternWaste Sep 2021 #28
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #15
uponit7771 Sep 2021 #16
malaise Sep 2021 #18
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #21
lame54 Sep 2021 #27
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #33
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #32
malaise Sep 2021 #19
Takket Sep 2021 #22
Mr.Bill Sep 2021 #24
lame54 Sep 2021 #26
lame54 Sep 2021 #29

Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:05 PM

1. I don't know.

That’s up to investigators to figure out if there was a conspiracy by people in high places to commit sedition by attacking the Capitol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:05 PM

2. Evidence of organized Republican conspiracy against the USA

is coming. Heaps and heaps of it. Shitloads actually. You won't have to wait long. The Republican traitors will have to face justice for their violent betrayal of America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Champp (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:07 PM

3. Is there any evidence of that? Or just a hunch?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 03:26 PM

25. Oaf Kreeps, one developing example

Members of the Oath Keepers showed 'preparation' and 'structure' before Jan. 6 insurrection: report

https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/members-of-the-oath-keepers-showed-preparation-and-structure-before-jan-6-insurrection-report/

Members of the Oath Keepers — along with QAnon and the Proud Boys — were among the far-right extremists who, according to the FBI, were involved in the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol Building. The role that the Oath Keepers played in the Capitol insurrection is the focus of a report by PolitiFact's Samantha Putterman, who examines their activities before and during the attack.

"Of approximately 40 people facing conspiracy charges as of early September, 19 were associated with the far-right Oath Keepers militia, according to PolitiFact's review of court files," Putterman explains. "Another 17 were affiliated with the Proud Boys extremist group. As part of PolitiFact's ongoing look at how misinformation fueled the events of January 6, we examined the case files of defendants associated with Oath Keepers and found they tell a story of preparation, communication and structure."

Putterman reports that on November 9, following the 2020 election, Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes "called on members to go to Washington, D.C."

Rhodes told them, "We're going to defend the president, the duly elected p

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Champp (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 02:42 PM

23. All I see in the future (and by future I mean years)

is people ignoring subpoenas and a whole lot of lawyers making career money fighting this in courts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:08 PM

4. So far publicly you have 2 lawyers and 1 advisor to Trump admitting to organization

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Under The Radar (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:13 PM

7. organization of the rally or the riot?

Keep in mind the rally was permitted and areas closer to the Capitol were also permitted.

In fact it appears all was legal until they crossed police barriers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Under The Radar (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:32 PM

12. organization to riot and invade the Capital?

that's the distinction the OP is trying to take up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopdiggin (Reply #12)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 07:31 PM

31. The only evidence that I know of the riot ..

Other than the “time to kick ass”!rhetoric is the Facebook post by Marjorie Greene telling “rally” attendees that they have to go inside the Capitol, not just an outside protest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:09 PM

5. I'm guessing if indeed there was a permit for the 1/6 "rally"

maybe that was the original intent. MAYBE. Except that the opportunistic infections who were drawn to that rally decided to (or were determined to) take over and run amok.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to calimary (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:13 PM

6. Permits. 6 of them, including the rally itself and numerous areas near the Capitol

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/the-capitol-police-said-jan-6-unrest-on-capitol-grounds

The chief of the Capitol Police and its top intelligence officer personally approved permits for six demonstrations to be held on Jan. 6, 2021, despite signs that one of the applications was filed for an organization that didn't exist and that five of them were a proxy for a group staging large, violent protests across the country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Reply #6)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:37 PM

14. permits granted under the insurrectionist Trump organziation

Their validity is broken.

We had probably over a million people commit an act of insurrection and treason to overturn the election results, directed by a former POTUS that was only "elected" due to Russian interference in the 2016 election. He is literally owned by Russia and must be arrested!

Democrats need to straighten their spine and ARREST!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cadoman (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:46 PM

17. Arrest is a function of evidence - not spine straightening

The OP is asking whether there is evidence of official planing for a riot (as opposed to legal rallies). If there is such evidence, then certainly it needs to be brought forth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cadoman (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:50 PM

20. Claims that a million people were present on 1/6 are nonsense

I doubt if there were more than 50000 on the ellipse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Reply #6)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 04:19 PM

30. Thanks!

Jason Leopold! I remember him from Truthout, I believe it was.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:19 PM

8. I'm not sure all the evidence has been uncovered yet, but already we

have such things as:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215896560

And Trump’s actions to replace people at high levels in the Defense Dept., his remarks at the “rally”, which likely were planned, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:21 PM

9. The Trump Admin kept the security weakened, likely for political reasons.

That created an opportunity for a spontaneous insurrection. Trump and his Trumpies incited the mob while, at the same time they deliberately kept the NG and displays of heightened security at bay. That's how I read it, and it's a lot worse than a conspiracy. A conspiracy can be caught by the FBI and traced. What Trump and his Trumpies did to cause the insurrection they did openly under color of government office and as a major political party.

And, yeah, a few groups probably did conspire in some way in case an opportunity arose. Their "plans" would have meant nothing were it not for Trump and his Trumpies weakening the security.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:26 PM

10. Not a riot, it was a text book insurrection seeing the goal was to stop or overturn the election

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:29 PM

11. The Biden DoJ calls it a riot... you better let them know so they can correct themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:33 PM

13. Link and quote, I haven't heard DOJ call it such seeing the FBI director is calling J6 domestic ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 03:39 PM

28. Still at it, eh?

 

It's fun to tell people what they better do, eh? Ineffective and without merit, but still fun. And I s'pose that's the important thing for a lot people...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:37 PM

15. shittiest 'insurrection' (and planning) ever

sure hope this 'textbook' isn't being taught anywhere. Embarrassing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopdiggin (Reply #15)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:38 PM

16. They delayed the process, that's all they needed for Pouncing Pence but he did the right thing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:46 PM

18. It was not a riot

It was a failed coup

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #18)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 01:56 PM

21. word games

the incident had all the hallmarks (and appearance) of a riot - with the usual small handful of agitators and firebrands as a spur.

If there is evidence that this 'riot' had planning or direction from high authority - then by all means produce it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopdiggin (Reply #21)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 03:35 PM

27. You are giving WAY more effort...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lame54 (Reply #27)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 10:26 PM

33. by thinking that evidence might come into play? -(nt)-

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopdiggin (Reply #21)


Response to WarGamer (Original post)


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 02:20 PM

22. to me, these are the unanswered questions of Jan 6.......

Was there ever a "if you build it, they will come" conversation, and who was involved? And by that I mean, was it ever discussed with the proud boys or some such group, that hey, if you start pushing your way into the buidling, the rest of the crowd will follow you, and you can stop the certification. Most people in a riot or insurrection or whatever you want to all it might not have the fortitude to start something they know is illegal themselves, but once the wheels are set in motion will join in. A lot of the people that went into the capital not to kill but just to put their stupid faces in instagram with a statue, did that.

and during that chaos the real insurrectionists had a plan to do their attacks.

If those discussions occurred. who was in on it? did drumpf have his minions talk to them? did he talk to them directly?

What about the capital security? How were they deployed that day compared to other protests? Were there less officers than usual? Were they purposefully understaffed to make it easier to gain entry? Who decided how many officers would be there and how many barricades would be set up? What sort of assessments were they given on the size and potential violence of the crowd, and did they ignore those assessments and set up a response more appropriate for girl scouts?

And the third major prong of this is the response. and i think this is the easiest place to prove crimes. specifically the calls for help that went ignored for several hours. why were initial calls for the national guard ignored? when did drumpf know an attack was occurring and what did he do in that exact moment?

These are all the things i'm expecting the jan 6 commission to get to the bottom of...... we have the body, and we know who the killer is, now we need to peel back all the layers of the onion to figure out every detail of how it was done that we can put in front of a jury to get a conviction. it is a slow and painfully arduous process.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 02:47 PM

24. One thing is for sure.

What happened on 1/6 is certainly grounds for refusing any permits of any kind to anyone involved with the 1/6 rally or riot in the future. You don't give rally permits when the last rally resulted in people breaking windows and smearing shit on the walls of the Capitol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WarGamer (Original post)

Sun Sep 26, 2021, 03:32 PM

26. It will be a wild time...

Vague mobster style references which is pure Trump

Legal - sure
Suspicious as hell - fuck yes

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Reply to this thread