We're going to get bills through the Senate

[MineralMan]

for the Infrastructure and Social Justice things. They won't be quite as sweeping as we might like, but something will get through.

Even though they will not be what the current proposals are, something is better than nothing every time. Isn't that a lesson we have learned again and again? Why do we have to relearn it every time.

Manchin and Sinema will vote for something. The question is: What, exactly. We'll know before too long.

Something. Better than nothing. Every time.

[comradebillyboy]

1. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the

first step. We can make progress step by step.

And as Joe Manchin says we need to elect more liberals in order to enact more liberal policies.

[Mme. Defarge]

2. And once the benefits begin improving our lives

the demand for more is almost certain to grow.

[Wounded Bear]

3. The Child Tax Credit is set to expire Jan 1 IIRC...

that would piss some people off, and probably at the wrong people, like usual.

[fescuerescue]

4. Yea I don't know why people are so down.

Instead of getting the largest social spending bill in human history.

We'll have to settle for the second or third largest.

That's still very good.

[MineralMan]

5. For some folks, it's "all or nothing."

It's not about helping people to some degree or another. It must be maxed out completely or they don't want any of it.

That isn't how things really work, though. Never has been in this country.

[SergeStorms]

17. Give Americans a taste....

of what Democrats have to offer. When they see their lives improving, if only by a half-measure for now, they'll vote for Democrats to deliver a full-measure in the future.

That's bad news for republicans, who have nothing to offer them but hate.

[MineralMan]

18. I agree completely. I hope that's what happens.

My two Senators will vote for whatever bill ends up being voted on, I guarantee.

[Demsrule86]

27. Exactly, the ACA is a perfect example. Some wanted to wait until they got a pubic option or

single-payer...but it made Americans believe that health care is a right and that is huge...we won back the House majority because of the ACA. It also has saved millions of lives.

[Demsrule86]

6. Exactly MM...we get what we can...elect more Democrats and come back for more...we don't sit out

the midterms as some did in 10 and 14...because they couldn't get exactly what they wanted. We can't afford that sort of foolishness now with our Republic on the line. We must hold one branch of Congress ahead of the 24 elections.

[MineralMan]

7. That's not a popular viewpoint with some here.

We have some "all or nothing at all" folks who will object to any lesser bill. If they get their way, nothing at all will be what we get.

It's intensely frustrating to see that attitude in play right now. We do not have a massive majority in Congress, especially in the Senate. We could have one, if we focused on winning elections rather than tilting at windmills. In the meantime, we can get something through Congress that will be helpful to people and the economy. In my opinion, we should do that and turn our attention to upcoming elections and see if we can't do better in 2022 and 24.

That opinion will get me some nastygrams, though.

[SergeStorms]

22. It takes me back...

to the Democratic primaries, with the progressives insisting Joe Biden wasn't progressive enough for their tastes.

A true progressive would never have defeated Asshole45, and our lives would be endlessly worse than they are right now.

Democrats chose Biden/Harris because they would appeal to the broadest cross section of Americans. We defeated Asshole45 by 7 million votes.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here. Take everything we can get right now, and come back for the rest when we have a Senate with a few more Democrats in it. Then we can push harder for the rest.

[Demsrule86]

29. I know I get them too. But you are right. Politics is the art of compromise...there is no

other way. And we should not be in this position either. People must start voting Democratic as if their lives and the Republic depend on it because it does.

[uponit7771]

8. The recent statements against progressing for police, voting and infrastructure aren't positive so

... far and it looks like Manchin keeps knocking the number down starting from 6 trillion.

[MineralMan]

9. Just wait. Something will make it through the Senate.

It won't be the maximum that was proposed but something will get through.

And here's the thing: The Senate is what it is. Manchin and Sinema are who they are. We can't get a bill through without them, since zero Republicans will vote for it, no matter what it is. So, we have reality to deal with. And we will deal with that reality.

If we want more, we will need to elect more Senators from our party. That is the only way we will get what is actually needed. Right now, we're going to get something less than that. Or, we'll get nothing at all. I like getting something, frankly.

[calimary]

19. Yep. The only real way out, besides accepting something over nothing,

Is to LOAD UP THE SENATE WITH MORE DEMOCRATS! Same thing in the House. A CLEAR majority that cancels whatever advantage Manchin & Sinema might currently have. That’s how we make those two irrelevant and toothless. And recruit a viable primary opponent for Sinema. And do it NOW. we have to. There will be plenty of adversarial machinery working to keep her in place. She really deserves to get the heave-ho. And the sooner, the better.

[old guy]

10. True. We will get a bill passed for something.

Whether it is a good bill or not will be decided by the mid-term elections. I truly hope it will be enough to keep the House and Senate but only time will tell.

[Demsrule86]

30. If you are saying that maybe it won't be enough for Democrats than I say shame on them...

it is always better to get something and electing a Democrat instead of a Republican is always better and being in the minority sucks...so if some decide to message vote they will have less power, not more as in no power. I would have hoped they would have learned the lesson of 10 and 14.

[IronLionZion]

11. How about those 2 just say what they want, and show some leadership

instead of just being the damn brakes on everything

[Mr. Evil]

12. They should both vote themselves a ride

on Jeff Bezo's flying dildo rocket.
To infinity and beyond!

[Hortensis]

13. What we get will be a WHOLE LOT, it just won't be the giant,

historic leap forward that our grandparents achieved. This time. Next time more.

Btw, they elected a Democratic trifecta to make so much possible at once. It wasn't greater leaders, it was more voters frightened into giving them to power to make big change by what they'd let happen to their country in their days.

[MineralMan]

16. Yes, we will, if we don't insist on getting everything

and vote NO one a bill that doesn't meet our pure standards. That remains a possibility. I hope our progressive Senators don't make that mistake, you know...

[Hortensis]

20. Forgot to mention, Dems had control 12 years!

And spent that time creating what was truly a new deal for the nation.

[Tommymac]

14. We are not in normal times. Politics as usual may not apply. 11/2022 is around the corner.

The clock is ticking...we HAVE to have firewalls to prevent the rethugs from destroying our Democracy in less then 15 months.

We have to modify or get rid of the filabuster. If we don't, the authoritarians may not allow our form of Democracy anymore time.

Time IS of the essence.

[MineralMan]

15. But, see, WE can't get rid of the filibuster.

The Senate has to do that. And we don't have a solid majority in the Senate. It's easy to say what WE must do if WE are not Senators. The Senate will do as it pleases, as it always does.

We need more Democratic Senators. If you are in a state that doesn't have two of those, please work on that for us, won't you? My state has two Democratic Senators.

[Hortensis]

28. Well, if we don't we'll prevail other ways.

Hanging the future of the world on one factor isn’t a winning strategy.

[berni_mccoy]

21. Manchin and Sinema have no intention of doing any of thay

Biden will be forced to beg the House to pass the BIF and that will be that.

[gab13by13]

23. It all depends MM,

If you are 50 feet offshore and drowning and someone tosses you a 40 foot rope, I guess that's better than nothing?

[Demsrule86]

31. And that would be a good thing...there is good stuff in that bill and it is possible with the people

I would like to see both bills pass, and I still think it will happen...but we won't get 3.5 trillion.

[greenman3610]

24. The lesson of Obama care

Is that even tho he could not get to the goal line of single payer - O-care set a whole new bar, that health care should be available and affordable to all, with no preconditions- and the country will never retreat from that.

[Silent3]

25. As long as we do enough good work to make voters happy to vote for Democrats again...

...then we get a chance to make it even better later with bigger majorities in Congress.

If the compromise doesn't please enough voters, then we may very well not get another chance to fix many important things for a long, long time.

[WarGamer]

26. So you think they won't filibuster?

[Demsrule86]

32. Some have been saying that we will pass a voting rights bill...I hope so or will have to work muchha

harder to get the vote out. I am not willing to give up ever! I think there is a good change the reconciliation bill will pass...but the amount will be less.

[Jakes Progress]

33. It's easy to see what sinema will vote for.

Just go and ask Bill Price what he wants. This hedge-fund billionaire has already bought her vote. Not for campaign money. She will leave the political job at which she is so inept and sit on boards for millions as soon as she delivers her vote for whatever Price wants.

We won't get anything the billionaire doesn't want to happen. She just doesn't give a shit. I want the media to follow her after she leaves office to see where she ends up. I don't like derogatory name for women, but if you sell your vote you are a political whore by definition.

[Sogo]

34. Give 'em the 1.5T, then lower the number of years

it covers. That way the progressives get all the programs, just for 4.5 years, not 10. Then, renew funding for everything in 4.5 years....Getting all those programs in place will make re-election prospects much better for ALL Democrats; then they can run again and again on these accomplishments and the need to renew them....