Ivermectin, two other drugs being tested in clinical trial in Tennessee (not a joke!)

[SheltieLover]

https://www.localmemphis.com/mobile/article/news/health/ivermectin-two-other-drugs-being-tested-clinical-trial-tennessee/522-1658ffc7-bf12-4587-9b55-b841c514dedc

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — A national study is underway to see if Ivermectin and two other drugs already on the market are effective at treating COVID-19 symptoms.

The anti-parasite medicine has been popular among anti-vaccine advocates. Duke University researchers are now leading the nationwide trial and 15,000 participants are needed.

"Ivermectin has a lot of controversy. We’re hoping to clear that up," said Dr. Aaron Milstone with the Clinical Trials Center of Middle Tennessee.

Milstone said this trial should provide the medical community with the answers it needs when it comes to whether or not Ivermectin works as a COVID treatment.

More at link. Could these researchers, would they have designed a study attempting to discourage magats from eating horse dewormer? Somebody please tell me this isn't what is happening here. From what I've read, researchers have proven ivermectin does not work with covid. Covid is not a parasite, it is a virus.

[PoliticAverse]

1. How much did you read?...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19

Conclusions:

Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.

> Covid is not a parasite, it is a virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad-spectrum antiparasitic agent with demonstrated antiviral activity against a number of DNA and RNA viruses,

[SheltieLover]

4. Just 1 excerpt posted on DU

It worked in the test tube, but not in live cells, per the article.

[Scrivener7]

21. There have been a number of studies that show improvement. It seems like there are design problems

with all of those studies.

For example, the one that is most often quoted by Ivermectin fans is the Bangladesh study. It is included in this analysis, but it was actually a study of Ivermectin in combination with anti-virals that we know have a benefit in treating Covid. That makes it a useless study in terms of understanding the effects of Ivermectin.

The authors of this meta analysis in this article state that they include peer reviewed studies, but also many that have not been peer reviewed. That makes them useless too.

They also describe some of their sources as "natural experiments." Which means studies where cause and effect cannot be known to be related.

But here is a good, double blind, randomized, control group study with a good size sample that shows that Ivermectin has no effect other than to hasten the time it takes to be put on a respirator:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34215210/

Ivermectin had no significant effect on preventing hospitalization of patients with COVID-19. Patients who received ivermectin required invasive MVS earlier in their treatment. No significant differences were observed in any of the other secondary outcomes.

[Hav]

22. Oh god, do people still trot out his stuff from Pierre Cory?

What do peer reviews say? It was hyped when it was still a preprint.

Here is the verdict of one journal who rejected the publication of your cited article due to "unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal’s editorial policies"

“Further, the authors promoted their own specific ivermectin-based treatment which is inappropriate for a review article and against our editorial policies. In our view, this paper does not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution to the evaluation of ivermectin as a potential treatment for COVID-19.”


Also, at least one of the studies that this meta analysis mentions has been retracted due to alleged data tempering and blatant plagiarism. For example, it seems that this study used the thesaurus technique to hide that something was copied from other sources without citing it correctly. The hilarious example of that is that the correct "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome" which SARS stands for was accidentally changed to "extreme intense respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)" in the article. How embarrassing to rely on bs studies like this and not recognize how bad some of these are.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

24. Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.

You will never have a reasonable discussion around here about potential benefits.

I get it. I get it. I too enjoy teasing right wingers about “horse paste” and their need to be “de wormed.” I got put in Facebook jail for asking some idiot when she was due back at Tractor Supply for her de-worming.

That said, drugs like this can have some benefits incidental to their main use. (That doesn’t mean people should run to Farm and Fleet to stock up)

I haven’t read much at all about ivermectin but I did see some serious discussions about hydroxychloroquine (as an ionophore for zinc which may slow production) when it was the topic du jour back in the early days of Covid. But once trump started pushing it as a cure-all, all bets were off.

[Hav]

26. I think a reasonable discussion should be based

on actual evidence. The linked meta analysis of post 1 has been hyped much and is the darling of the Ivermectin crowd but it has also been criticized for many reasons.

A prospective double blind study for Ivermectin should be welcomed. That's the point. I don't think it's reasonable to discuss x as an effective treatment due to some properties it has unless studies actually show the efficacy.

As for hydroxychloroquine, it was similar. It was presented as a miracle drug without any proof until actual studies found no benefit.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

33. Well the op is incredulous that a study (the one in op) is even being done. That's kind of my point.

[Hav]

35. I agree about that point, absolutely nothing wrong about such a study

And even though some apparently went for the horse dewormer, the Ivermectin=horse paste narrative needs to stop because it's just ignorant.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

36. I reserve the right to use horse de-wormer/paste as a cudgel against right wingers.

But their side isn’t the only side that has some people living in a bubble.

[cadoman]

2. $100 gift card? It's gonna take more than that

Doesn't even say what store it's for.

[SheltieLover]

5. Tractor supply!

Wiiiiiillllbbbbuuuuurrr...

[ColinC]

19. At least a years supply of pampers

[jmowreader]

3. It doesn't matter what the results say

If the study proves ivermectin doesn't work (which it can't as coronavirus is not a parasitic worm), the MAGAts will scream "fake news" and "Biden plants" and keep on slugging down horse dewormer.

If it DOES prove ivermectin has any sort of benefit at all, no matter how slight, the MAGAts will say "see, we told you so!" and keep on slugging down horse dewormer.

And when the horse dewormer kills these dumb fucks, as it has been known to do, they'll say it was because Biden talked the horse dewormer manufacturers into making ivermectin with poison in it and the poison killed them. (Not understanding, naturally, that ivermectin IS a poison. That's how it fucking works - it poisons the worms so the horse can shit them out.)

[SheltieLover]

6. I agree 100%!

But would researchers go to this trouble to design & implement a research study for anti-vaxers? Maybe to keep them.out of hospitals?

[SheltieLover]

9. No interest. Fully vaxed with 3 Pfizers.

[cadoman]

12. table two of this study actually breaks down 20 ways IVM acts against COVID

Into four groups:

A. DIRECT ACTION ON SARS-COV-2
B. ACTION ON HOST TARGETS FOR VIRAL REPLICATION
C. ACTION ON HOST TARGETS FOR INFLAMMATION
D. ACTION ON OTHER HOST TARGETS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8203399/

So it's about more than just "killing the virus in a petri dish", that the older referenced study describes. Being a protease inhibitor is good enough:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Of course, none of these silly actions work as good as a full-fledged, tested, safe and effective vaccine, couple with a simple mask. But hopefully if this veterinary product doesn't kill the rubes it might by chance help them out. I'd prefer the idiots just mask and vaxx but whatever ends the pandemic is good.

[PoliticAverse]

13. Prevention is almost always better than treatment. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

18. Exactly!

And a whole lot easier on the patient(s)...

[cadoman]

45. agreed, mechanisms A & B and some of D in my post were preventative

Not sure who or what you were replying to, but wanted to clarify that.

A. DIRECT ACTION ON SARS-COV-2
B. ACTION ON HOST TARGETS FOR VIRAL REPLICATION
D. ACTION ON OTHER HOST TARGETS

[Scrivener7]

23. The only double blind controlled study in that list (meaning the only trial that

has dependable results) was actually a study of people who took Ivermectin in combination with anti-virals. Its not useful in studying Ivermectin.

[PoliticAverse]

7. Ivermectin does not work by poisoning worms, it interferes with the worms' replication.

Ivermectin is not a poison per-se, but if you take too much of it (as with most any medication) you can die (you know how many overdose deaths there are from the over the counter medication acetaminophen - aka Tylenol - each year?)

Additionally humans shouldn't be taking medications meant for animals as they are frequently not prepared to the same standards as that meant for humans.

> If the study proves ivermectin doesn't work (which it can't as coronavirus is not a parasitic worm)

You seem not to know much about Ivermectin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad-spectrum antiparasitic agent with demonstrated antiviral activity against a number of DNA and RNA viruses,

[SheltieLover]

10. No interest in it.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. Well you are posting about it, and making claims about it, etc

Seems like you have SOME interest

[SheltieLover]

27. My interest was only in considering

Whether someone funded, designed & implemented a research study to appease the covidiots.

[samplegirl]

20. Didn't I just read on here the other day

it killed two people. Kidney failure?

[SheltieLover]

28. I think so

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

14. It's much easier to just get the vaccine.

[Hugin]

16. & its free.

[SheltieLover]

29. No kidding!

[sakabatou]

11. Agreed

[Woodswalker]

17. It tickles my heart

When right winger dingdongs say they won't get the Covid vax because they don't know what's in it, but they're fine with Ivermectin because it has their horses approval

[SheltieLover]

30. Wiiiiillllbbbbuuuuuur

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

39. Their problem is that

they lack good horse sense.

[Hav]

25. Nothing wrong with such a study

The same was done for hydroxychloroquine. A real, strong study is preferable to what is currently going around.
It's a win-win. It either disproves that it's effective or it shows some form of efficacy.

Also, I've seen it several times in this thread, for your own sake, stop calling it horse dewormer when it's an established drug for humans.

[SheltieLover]

31. Not for covid

& certainly not the horse paste some are opting to ingest, rather than taking a course of vaccines.

[retread]

32. Why the fuss? It worked for me.

[SheltieLover]

34. Wiiiiiillllbbbbuuuuurrrr...

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

40. Watching Mr. Ed as a kid,

I just loved him. Such a beautiful horse and they gave him great material!

[SheltieLover]

41. Me too!

I still love him! Did you know you can buy DVDs as a set? I had them & enjoyed then immensely!

Always the adult in the room...or the barn.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

42. If I get a DVD set of a show,

my first two choices would be MASH and Barney Miller.

But now I will have to see if I can find some Mr. Ed on YT or Daily Motion. Daily Motion has a lot of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episodes. I was also pleasantly surprised to find some of "The Fugitive" episodes, also. RIP David Janssen and Barry Morse

[SheltieLover]

43. Thx for the tip!

I'd never heard of Daily Motion!

[Deep State Witch]

37. It's Worth A Try

I mean, in a clinical environment, with controls and proper monitoring, why not study it? If it cures or lessens COVID, great. If not, maybe it will shut these people up.

[Sympthsical]

38. Wait, are we getting angry at science now?

They're doing a study. Assuming they're following the methods and protocols that produce a good, scientific result, what's the problem?

Science shouldn't be involved in political positions. Sneering at a scientific study for . . . what purpose?

This isn't a good look at all.