cut the red states off

[rdking647]

they want to risk a catasrophe on the debt ceiling?

ok see how long the last when the federal government doesnt spend dollar 1 on their states.
a complete shut down of everything but social security (the 14th amendmend probably blocks cutting that off)
close all military bases in red states
start laying off every federal worker in those states.
and let them know that the money will NEVER be sent to those states

[marble falls]

1. I live in a Red state, dammit. We are not them.

[rdking647]

8. im also in texas

if we hit the ceiling the economy will crash. think great depression at the very least. we wont be able to spend anything more than we take in minus interest payments on debt already incurred.

at least my way part of the country has a chance instead of teh whole thing going down the drain.

[mcar]

14. Me too. Thanks. nt

[TomSlick]

16. There are a lot of us on DU. Not all Democrats live in reliably blue states.

[mcar]

20. Some here will persist in thinking anyone who lives in a red state

is evil by default.

They refuse to even try to understand how hard we are working to change things.

[cadoman]

22. I live in a red state too and frankly we fucking deserve it

Rethuglicans always talk about learning from mistakes, so this is a chance for them to do so.

Cut the red states off and let them learn some fucking common sense and civility.

[Ocelot II]

2. How do you propose to do that? What statute allows it, and how would it be implemented?

Do you think it would be constitutional? Do you think Congress would do it if they could?

[Trueblue Texan]

3. Even if that were possible...

...why would you want to punish people in red states who support raising the debt ceiling? Why punish us? Aren't we being punished enough by our red-right-wing nut job leaders? Hello there from Texas!

[rdking647]

11. so whats your alternative

if we hit the ceiling were fucked anyway.

do we just give in to the GOP terrorists?
do we abandon every democratic priority?

[Trueblue Texan]

15. My alternative would be...

...some measure that is legal, fair, and effective and doesn't drive off members of the base. As the saying goes: there's a simple answer to everything, unfortunately, its usually wrong.

[MuseRider]

4. Again and again

over and over. Yup, we should all just pick up and move to the lovely states full of people just like us. No thank you. I do not like the redness of my state but I love my state and my farm and I am not going to leave as I believe I am every bit the good Democrat that anyone else is, we all are as we are here on this site so please just stop this crap. It is not our fault and frankly I would never move to a state full of people who would advocate for this.

[brer cat]

5. +++

It is getting very tiresome.

[Ocelot II]

6. Fortunately it isn't possible to do what the OP suggests, but it's disheartening

that it was suggested at all. Most people in blue states don't advocate for this at all; instead, we're trying to keep our states blue and support Democrats everywhere else. I've contributed to the campaigns of Democrats in red states because they need our help. No GOPer is going to win my congressional district anyhow, so why shouldn't I help Dems in red states instead of punishing them for living there?

[rdking647]

9. how isnt it possible

if we reach the debt ceiling the government will have to prioritize payments. why not prioritize it to blue states over red.

the GOP want to play hardball let their states be the first to be hit.

and I live in a red state

[Ocelot II]

12. It's your idea; you can explain how that legislation would be drafted,

and even in the unlikely circumstance that it got through Congress, do you seriously think Biden would sign it and ruin any chance of turning a red state blue in the future? And since Biden isn't a guy who likes hurting people, he wouldn't do it anyhow.

[cadoman]

24. Biden is Commander in Chief and can shut down all military related ops in red states

He's proven he can make a tough decisions on the fly. Let the red states own their lousy behavior.

Source our military supplies only from blue states. Train only in blue states. Store our military assets only in blue states. We have way too many extremist types floating around in the military right now and need to weed them out anyway.

[Ocelot II]

26. Do you seriously think he would do that?

Shutting down military installations would be a huge national security problem with disastrous political consequences as well. It’s a ridiculous idea, a strictly punitive action I can imagine Trump taking, but Biden wouldn’t in a million years. Thank God.

[rdking647]

28. it wouldn't need legislation

if we hit the debt ceiling that means pretty much zero spending over what we take in. for example lets say that onde day 1 we could only spend 10 billion. not a penny more. biden could direct the 10B to only go to blue states. once that 10B is spent thats it.
if we were to get to that point i dont thing future elections would matter much anyway. we would for all intents and purposes cease to be a world power. the dollar would be destroyed. the stock market could easily drop 20% in a day or more. inflation would spike to 10-20% at least.

[MuseRider]

13. You have no idea

how much we appreciate that. I firmly believe that none of this will get better until we have access to the Internet through out our state. I would bet a good 1/3 of this state and likely more only hear about politics from their church or (used to be Rush) some RWNJ on the satellite radio in their tractor that they hear for hour after hour after hour. The Dems rarely go out to these areas. When we had the money, thank you Dr. Dean and your 50 state solution, we had more Dems here than ever before. Now we are back to an almost total R state. It is sad and hard but we all still work at it from some angle trying to make it better.

Thank you. I know we would help you if the tables were turned. The gifts in this state are always shared.

[treestar]

27. TFG did it

Was he able to refuse to help California?

[mcar]

21. Well said!

Thanks.

[Make7]

7. Thirty five percent of Biden votes were from Red states.

Texas: 5,259,126 for Biden and 5,890,347 for Trump.
Florida: 5,297,045 for Biden and 5,668,731 for Trump.
North Carolina: 2,684,292 for Biden and 2,758,775 for Trump.
Ohio: 2,679,165 for Biden and 3,154,834 for Trump.
...

[rdking647]

10. my preferred plan would be for the debt ceiling to be declared unconstitutional

under teh 14th amendment.

[TomSlick]

17. I am skeptical that the 14th Amendment, Section 4 prohibits the debt ceiling.

The text:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

The rather clear intent was to prohibit the former Confederate states from paying debts incurred "in aid of insurrection or rebellion." The language says that the public debt "shall not be questioned." It does not say the public debt shall be paid.

The next problem would be who has standing to challenge the constitutionality of the debt ceiling statute.

The debt ceiling is profoundly stupid and should be repealed. However, I have no hope it would be ruled unconstitutional.

[rdking647]

29. peryy vs us 1935

Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment, declaring that "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned," is confirmatory of a fundamental principle, applying as well to bonds issued after, as to those issued before, the adoption of the Amendment, and the expression "validity of the public debt " embraces whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations


the debt ceiling certainly concerns the integrity of public obligations

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/294/330/

[TomSlick]

30. I doubt the current SCOTUS would find the quote controlling.

First, the reference to the 14th Amendment in Perry was dicta. It was not central to the decision.

Second, Perry must be read in its historical perspective. SCOTUS in 1935 was obstructing any attempt to deal with the Great Depression. It was only after FDR's election in 1936 and the threat of his "court packing" plan, that the Court backed-down. Any case arising from Depression era legislation from the period should be discounted.

If I represented a creditor of the US who was not being paid, I would certainly argue that the 14th Amendment and Perry required the debt to be paid. However, I doubt SCOTUS would find the debt ceiling unconstitutional and order the Treasury to pay money in violation of the debt ceiling law. The Court would be slow to create that sort of constitutional crises.

[Trueblue Texan]

31. YES!!!

That would stop this cliffhanging bullshit once and for all. But you think there is any chance in hell the current SCOTUS will consider such a case? I doubt that very seriously. If only.

[Qutzupalotl]

18. Remember when Jared and TFG let Covid get worse because they thought it would hit

blue areas hardest? This is the same kind of broad-brush thinking.

Not everyone in California is a liberal. Not everyone in Mississippi is conservative. By punishing entire states, you would abandon your allies there and more firmly entrench the opposition.

[Dial H For Hero]

19. All right, let's run with this. On Jan. 1st 2022, no one residing in any of the 25 red states

can benefit in any way from:

Medicare
SNAP (food stamps)
Air Traffic Control (they've all been fired)
VA Benefits (shut those hospitals down!)
Federal Agriculture spending
Federal housing programs
Federal law enforcement (no FBI, ATF, DEA...you've all been let go!)

Within weeks, millions of federal workers have moved from red to blue states. Housing prices skyrocket anywhere that's blue, and those workers are demanding their paychecks. It's not their fault that they don't have anywhere to report to work any more! Retired federal workers are in quite the pickle, since their pensions have been cut off, but them's the breaks, amiright?

Finally, given that there's no going back on this (you did put 'never' in all caps, after all) within months every red state has seceded. Georgia looks around, nervously, surrounded by red states. The West Coast and Northeast eye each other across a sea of red, no longer connected.

Utopia!

[fescuerescue]

23. Just gotta get that passed in the Senate

[bullwinkle428]

25. Like when Jared Kushner wanted to cut off aid to blue states?