Black real estate agent and his Black clients file lawsuit after being handcuffed by police

[BeckyDem]

Black real estate agent and his Black clients file lawsuit after being handcuffed by police during home showing


By Dakin Andone, Jennifer Henderson and Amanda Watts, CNN

Updated 11:12 AM ET, Sat October 9, 2021

(CNN)A Black father, his son, and their Black real estate agent have filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Wyoming, Michigan, the Wyoming police chief and six police officers after they were ordered by police officers out of the home they were touring and handcuffed.

The real estate agent, Eric Brown, was showing a home to his client, Roy Thorne, and his 15-year-old son, Samuel, on August 1, when police, responding to a neighbor's call, showed up at the house, ordered those inside to leave with their hands in the air and handcuffed them.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/08/us/black-real-estate-agent-clients-lawsuit-michigan/index.html


( No comment necessary. )

[MustLoveBeagles]

1. I hope they take take the city to the cleaners

[JohnSJ]

2. Yes, but the person who made the call should be sued also

[Marthe48]

30. I like that idea

n/t

[Deuce]

64. Agree 100%...

[GregariousGroundhog]

3. My gut feeling is that the officer's actions were reasonable given the information they had

The house was burglarized the week prior, the homeowner asked a neighbor to watch the house while they were away, that same neighbor called the police stating that the house was being burglarized a second time, that neighbor told police that the same suspect and same vehicle were at the house. The police detained the three in the back of squad cars and when they ascertained that the realtor and his clients were not the same person they encountered the previous week and that they had a legitimate reason to be at the property, they let them go.

The police secured the property and then identified the people; that seems like a reasonable response to me. Are there things the police could have done better? Maybe. This seems like an opportunity for the police department to educate the community on their policies and procedures and to solicit feedback regarding them. I don't see a need to take the city "to the cleaners" though.

[The Magistrate]

4. Bullshit

The call was based on race alone, and police began with the assumption they were dealing with criminals, an assumption also based on race alone.

If the realtor and customers had been white, it is likely no call would have been made, and if one had been police conduct would have been quite different.

[stopdiggin]

8. nonsense. the police have no way of

ascertaining the racial motivations of a citizen complaint. The call came in that the residence was being repeat burgled. The police are suppose to blow that off? "Nope. Don't believe you?" Handcuffs could (perhaps) be avoided - but LE has every right, in fact an obligation to, at least initially, treat the situation as it has been reported to them.

" - began with the assumption they were dealing with criminals, an assumption also based on race alone."

Incorrect. The assumption was based on a report of criminal activity.

[MrsCoffee]

12. Well Karen will certainly be happy to hear that.

Isn’t that exactly what she is counting on?

Shouldn’t police have an obligation to use common sense before barging in with guns drawn and handcuffing people?

Police policy is garbage.

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. That's the thing, they handcuffed them

Despite them having proof that they had every right to be on the property. Handcuff first, ask questions later.

If the police just came to check on a call, this wouldn't be a story. But like the rest of the shitbird cops, they took it too far.

[question everything]

34. I have noticed that when police are called, first thing is they handcuff a person.

Regardless of any evidence, or even a suspicious behavior by the person of interest. I think that one reason is to humiliate an upstanding citizen.

[uponit7771]

48. LEOs don't handcuff a person they handcuff suspects after they access they're suspects ...

... and that is more than just a phone call.

The LEOs had time and situation to ask and get proof and didn't, that's not a good call

[Trueblue1968]

57. I hope the people GET MILLIONS in the lawsuits!! BAD racist pig cops

[The Magistrate]

18. And The Caller's Claim Of Criminal Behavior, Sweetheart

Was based on nothing but three well-dressed black men letting themselves in the front door.

Give it a rest.

[BeckyDem]

22. +1.

[stopdiggin]

46. but the police do not know this at the outset

correct? Caller's claim also had some added veracity in that the residence had been previously 'hit.'

[uponit7771]

49. ... then it was up to them to access unless they were in danger or something. This was a bad call

... and how did the LEOs even know the black men in the house were from the original call?

No, they go to a scene they access as much as possible given time and situation

[The Magistrate]

53. Do Yourself A Favor, Sir, And Live Up To Your Name

"Say something once, why say it again?"

[vanlassie]

27. However, this was apparently a house ON SALE?

Was this the only realtor led showing the neighbor had observed? Detaining them in a police car- why? We’re they carrying Burgler Sacks or something? Can you seriously imagine this happening to some fancy white people? Please.

[uponit7771]

50. +1, ignoring this could be a legit showing handcuffing vs asking for situation

[happy feet]

38. Bullshit

I'm sick of a caller's assertion coupled with black persons begin taken as a fact. Did they see anyone exit the house with items from in the house? NO. So no evidence of a burglary other than three black males entered the house from two cars, one of which was black-same color as the previous burgler's car. Absent any evidence of a burglary how about knocking on the door and questioning those inside. That's what they would have done is the person's had been white.

[uponit7771]

47. Viewing the home was not criminal activity and it's up to the LEOs on site to access and confirm

... calls not just act as if the caller is 100% correct.

This was a bad call

[vsrazdem]

11. This same thing happened in Cincinnati last year and it cost the city $151,000.

[Merlot]

37. Should be coming out of police pensions, not taxpayers.

[zipplewrath]

6. Reasonable

The question is whether the same reasonable actions would have been taken if they were white.

It has been demonstrated many times that police use their "judgment calls" differently with white suspects as compared to black subjects.

[GregariousGroundhog]

7. Were there judgement calls made here though?

The article states that department policy is to unholster their weapons when they receive a report of a home invasion in progress. If the suspects were white and the officers did not unholster their weapons, then the officers would have been breaking department policy. But then again, we would be unlikely to know if officers did not draw on a white person because if a tree falls in a forest...

[The Magistrate]

23. That Is A Category Error

A home invasion requires occupants present in the home.

This was a vacant home up for sale.

There is no justification for this behavior. None.

[malaise]

41. Correct Sir

[csziggy]

26. From the article linked in the OP

The lawsuit stems from an incident on August 1, when a neighbor called authorities reporting that a suspect arrested at the property a week prior for unlawful entry had returned to the scene in the same car, according to a timeline previously released by the Wyoming Department of Public Safety.

In audio of the call released by Wyoming police in August, the caller is heard telling dispatch that a "young Black man" had been arrested at the house the week before. Police said it was a different caller from the initial incident, but "the caller was aware of the previous arrest and had seen the arrested individual and his vehicle," and had been asked by the homeowner to watch the house.

>>>>>>>>>

Additionally, the lawsuit claims the officers had evidence that neither Brown, Thorne or his son were the individual that had been arrested the week before because their cars and their license plates did not match the previous suspect's.

So they just took the word of a person not involved in the original arrest and did not run the plates on the cars that were currently at the location. That is lazy police work, not a reasonable response. If the responding officers had done their jobs they would have known that the car did NOT match as the caller claimed and would not have humiliated the three men as they did.

Of course it being three black men, the police probably did not care if they humiliated them.

[uponit7771]

52. +1, cops heard "black men" and decided anyone who was black inside the house was a suspect ...

... not even trying to access the situation with house being sold

[Withywindle]

68. Do burglars usually let themselves in the front door with a key in broad daylight?

Presumably the neighbor knew the house was for sale, and the realtor presumably was dressed like a realtor. Come on, I'm not buying it. "The same suspect"? Sounds like "fits the description" to me, which is just another way of saying "THEY all look alike to me."

[PatSeg]

5. And this:

The Wyoming Department of Public Safety said it had conducted an internal review and concluded that "race played no role in our officers' treatment of the individuals, and our officers responded appropriately."

Oh okay, maybe race didn't play a role in the officers' actions, but I really cannot picture them doing the same thing to a white realtor with his white clients - being held at gunpoint and handcuffed? I seriously doubt it.

[BeckyDem]

13. Not directed to you. I'm sad to read by some, the defense of the police in this thread.

There is a purpose to the lawsuit...to challenge the intent, conduct of the police but most important, what did they already know before they arrived.

(the lawsuit claims the officers had evidence that neither Brown, Thorne or his son were the individual that had been arrested the week before because their cars and their license plates did not match the previous suspect's.)


If they were white men, it would have gone down the same? I don't believe that for one moment.

[PatSeg]

31. I agree

What they already knew before arriving is important and with as little as we know about the situation, some of the blame might go to the neighbor who called the cops. I can understand being nervous if there had been previous break-ins in the neighborhood, BUT once again, would that neighbor have called the cops if the three individuals were white? Or would she have assumed that "white people" going into the house had the right to be there? Also, I am assuming that she knew the house was for sale, so prospective buyers entering it should not have been unusual.

Not every incident is about race, but when there is some doubt, I try to imagine the same situation with white people and I usually get my answer.

[BeckyDem]

33. Yes. Perfectly reasonable.

But can you imagine any human being deciding to do this to another human being?

Link to tweet

[PatSeg]

35. It is inconceivable,

but sadly much too common. I've seen videos that are absolutely chilling and the abuse of power is incomprehensible - children, the handicapped, the elderly, even pregnant women.

[BeckyDem]

45. Totally. +1

[Jedi Guy]

54. It happens every day when people decide, for whatever reason, to resist a lawful order. N/T

[BeckyDem]

58. A lawful order? How would you know that? You don't.

30-year veteran of the Dayton Police Department and former Sinclair Criminal Justice Training Leader William Parsons. He says while video does not show everything, it is not clear why they did not call for a supervisor.

"They're waiting, it sounds like they're waiting for the canine, they could have called a supervisor and said hey listen this person wants a supervisor and when a person requests a sergeant essentially we have to call for them," Parsons said.
https://dayton247now.com/news/local/community-law-enforcement-expert-respond-to-dayton-police-body-camera-video

[Jedi Guy]

59. I absolutely know it was a lawful order.

Look up Pennsylvania v. Mimms. It's a SCOTUS case from 1977 in which the ruling was that police can order a person out of a car during a traffic stop for a weapons pat-down, and this isn't a violation of that person's Fourth Amendment rights. Mr. Owensby has prior convictions on drug and weapons offenses, which is probably what prompted the stop to begin with. The bit about the window tint was a pretext, what's known as a Terry stop.

I agree that they could and should have simply had all but one officer go back into service, and that one officer could have waited with Mr. Owensby until a supervisor arrived. The supervisor may have been able to get him to comply with the request to step (or be assisted) out of the vehicle. But perhaps not. There are plenty of videos online, if you care to look, where a sergeant explains the legality of the request and the person continues to refuse, only to be removed from the vehicle anyway.

But make no mistake: if you get pulled over and the officer asks you to step out of the car because they want to check you for weapons, that is a lawful order.

[BeckyDem]

60. The 30 year veteran doesn't appear to agree. In addition, the means they used on a

paraplegic should be found excessive and inhumane.

[Jedi Guy]

61. He addressed the apparent lack of a call for a supervisor.

He didn't weigh in on the legality of the order to exit the vehicle, so no, he doesn't agree with you that it was unlawful, per the source you provided.

Could they and should they have handled it better? Absolutely. A supervisor may have been able to get him to comply with the order to exit the vehicle. But if he had continued to refuse, then at that point it would have played out the same way.

What should they have done at that point, in your opinion? If an officer asks him to exit, then tells him to exit, then a supervisor asks him to exit and tells him to exit, and he continues to refuse, what then?

[BeckyDem]

62. He also stressed their lack of compliance. Will they be dragged out of their precinct for failure?

The driver was not committing a crime....therefore dragging him out of his car for his non compliance is excessive and inhumane. Unless you believe our government should allow such force, such levels of gravity for non-compliance, I do not share that view. They have his license plate number, they know where he lives.

[Jedi Guy]

63. Once he refused to exit the vehicle, he did commit a crime.

Again, as decided in Pennsylvania v. Mimms, if a police officer orders you to exit the vehicle for a weapons pat-down, that is a lawful order and you must comply. It may begin as a request, but if refused, it will then become an order. Failure to obey is either resisting or obstructing an officer, depending on the verbiage in local laws. Note that he was charged with "Obstructing Official Business." That's the result of declining to exit the vehicle when given a lawful order to do so.

As I've said, I 100% agree with you that the officers could have handled it better. A supervisor may have been able to talk through the situation. Had he refused to comply with a supervisor, the same thing would have happened, though. You don't get to ignore lawful orders because "I don't wanna." Plenty of people make that choice and the same thing happens.

The best course of action if you feel a cop's request/order is unreasonable is to follow it anyway and then fight it out later in court. Refusing to comply on the scene is not going to end well. Any lawyer will tell you the exact same thing.

[BeckyDem]

65. It should be challenged and another the reason the court should be expanded.

There are rulings such as with Rodriquez vs. US, that could see Mimms overturned if we were not governed by a right wing court.


The cops there in Dayton have a reputation of abuse, but this is common across America.

The Post noted that Dayton's police department is already under scrutiny for a previous incident involving a deaf and mute man with cerebral palsy who says he was injured and mistreated by officers during a 2020 arrest.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/576107-naacp-investigating-after-paraplegic-man-was-pulled-from-car-by-police?rl=1


ACLU Driving While Black

By David A. Harris,
University of Toledo College of Law

An American Civil Liberties Union
Special Report
June 1999
https://www.aclu.org/report/driving-while-black-racial-profiling-our-nations-highways

[Jedi Guy]

66. Rodriguez v. US has nothing to do with ordering someone out of a vehicle, though.

So I'm not sure how you think it could be used to challenge or overturn Pennsylvania v. Mimms. The order to exit the vehicle was lawful, and refusal was not an option. If you refuse to get out, the cops will get you out. You don't have the right to say no to that as it's not a violation of the Fourth Amendment. That's a simple fact.

Rodriguez v. US also might not apply to this incident in particular since Mr. Owensby has prior weapon and drug convictions, which may constitute reasonable suspicion to extend the stop until a K-9 could be brought to the scene. I honestly don't know and can't find anything saying one way or another whether priors provide reasonable suspicion.

[BeckyDem]

67. Oh I disagree, it intertwines and can be relevant/argued depending on

other factors related to the reasons he was stopped....the brutality he experienced is a subset, imo.


Court of appeals: does Rodriguez undermine Mimms? Although Rodriguez itself did not directly criticize or question Mimms, the North Carolina Court of Appeals has issued several opinions that read Rodriguez as undermining, or at least limiting, Mimms:
https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/update-on-u-s-supreme-courts-ruling-in-rodriguez-v-united-states-concerning-extension-of-traffic-stops/


In time we shall see, yet I have little hope cops will see an end to their judicial freedom when they abuse citizens.

[vsrazdem]

9. This is the third time in the last 2 years I have seen black realtors handcuffed

and detained in police cars while showing property. Funny, I have never seen a video of this happening to white realtors. I wonder why.

[BeckyDem]

14. Exactly.

[llashram]

10. a neighbors call?

happens a lot. Wyoming Mich. Uh-huh. No surprise there. I wish people caught up in situations like this had a right to face the cowards who call in bullshit like this. That would stop a lot of unarmed and innocent African-americans being shot and killed or being humiliated like this

[Mickju]

16. I an't believe there are people on this site defending what the police did.

[BeckyDem]

20. Happens, unfortunately.

[Wednesdays]

21. The"alert" button is your friend. nt

[Jedi Guy]

55. Failing to automatically condemn the police is against the DU TOS now?

Do you make a habit of alerting on people who hold a different opinion on other issues?

[MineralMan]

17. Yeah, but here's the thing: I'm selling my previous home right now.

Realtors are doing showings. Guess what? I let my neighbors know about that, so they'd know that realtors would be coming with potential buyers to look at the house.

Do you suppose that neighbor didn't know his neighbor had his house on the market? I doubt that very much. Was there a realtors For Sale sign in the yard? Almost certainly. Was there a lock box on the door? No doubt.

The neighbor called the police because a BLACK realtor and his BLACK client were having a look at the house. The neighbor knew the house was for sale. Had it been a white realtor and a white client, he would not have called the police, I'm sure.

Some neighbors seem to think they get to help choose who their new neighbor's going to be. It doesn't work like that. At my old place, there's a neighbor who told me, "I sure hope you don't sell to any of those Hmong people!" I just shrugged and said, "I don't care who buys the house. You don't get to choose who that will be."

[BeckyDem]

19. Absolutely, thank you.

I believe all those details will come out in the lawsuit.

[MineralMan]

24. What should have happened would be the police coming,

and one of them asking who the people were. The realtor would hand the cop his business card, and the cops would go away. That's what should have happened. Nobody in cuffs. Nobody detained. Houses for sale get shown to prospective buyers. If someone calls the cops, they should operate on Occam's Razor. Is the house for sale? Is there a sign to that effect. Does someone have a business card as a realtor. Case closed and we're outa here.

That's the difference between what happened to a black realtor and client and what would have happened to a white realtor and client. That's why there will be a lawsuit.

[BeckyDem]

28. If this goes to trial, I hope the jury sees it the same way.

[plimsoll]

32. I think in the case of this article it does work that way.

I doubt that the black father and son would want to live next door to whoever called the police.

[Merlot]

39. And that's probably what motivated the call.

I doubt that the black father and son would want to live next door to whoever called the police.

[hunter]

42. That's how the affluent 99% white town I grew up in worked.

The police regularly harassed anyone who wasn't white.

It was just one of the ways the place kept itself white.

[MineralMan]

44. Yup.

[MineralMan]

43. Could be.

[obamanut2012]

36. I thought that too, MM

The neighbors want to decide their new neighbors aren't black.

I've also sold a house after I moved, and also told the neighbors Realtors would be coming by, and they would be doing it between 8 am and 7 pm, and to call the cops if it was outside those hours and they were carrying stuff out of the house!

[uponit7771]

51. +1

[joetheman]

25. I just sat here and cried after reading that.

There seems to be no hope, no hope for change, no hope for a chance to live and pursue happiness for my children or grandchildren who are black, brown, and mixed. Only the cruel seem to survive and make it in this country now.

[BeckyDem]

29. I try to post positive changes, but this issue is alarming to me because we also

have Americans who want to thwart any education on race. So it can be very depressing sometimes.

[DickKessler]

40. Unbelievable what cops get away with.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

56. Kick