Maybe I'm missing something but this bothered me

[genxlib]

So I saw this trailer yesterday and it just seems wrong. I love Will Smith and it seems well done. But I just recoil at the idea of telling the story of two accomplished women and making it all about their father. It is the very definition of paternalistic.

In truth, I am a middle aged white guy so maybe my reaction doesn't matter. It just seems unfair to the strong and competent women that should be the center of their own story.

What say you?

[BlackSkimmer]

1. I hadn't even heard about this for some reason.

But their dad had an awful lot to do with starting them on the path to greatness. And their mom.

[Joinfortmill]

2. I see your point. Maybe not the best trailer. Need to see the entire flick.

[HAB911]

3. from an old white guy

I think it's just a father's POV, unless it turns out to be all about him.

[zanana1]

4. I see what you mean.

It would be nice if the daughters were acknowledged as hard working, untiring champions.

[BlackSkimmer]

5. I would imagine the movie will show that.

Will Smith is a major star, so it makes sense he’d be featured in the trailer.

[zanana1]

9. Venus and Serena are major stars, too.

[Whiskeytide]

15. That's not really major stars Venus and Serena in the ...

… movie. Those are actors. Relatively unknown actors at this point in their careers. Actor Will Smith - who is actually in the movie - is one of the biggest box office draws of our time. It was surely a marketing decision to feature his role prominently in the trailer - to draw viewers. I’d like to see the 2hour movie - as opposed to a 30 second trailer - before I judge it as good or bad.

[Rorey]

6. I hadn't heard about it either

I want to see it!!!

Everyone knows of the greatness of Venus and Serena. I'm looking forward to getting to see another perspective besides what we've seen of them on the courts.

It looks like this film is a great tribute to their father, and hopefully their mother too. Sort of a "wind beneath my wings" thing.

[acantharchus]

7. Yes, you are missing something! N/T

I'll wait on the movie but I don't see this trailer in any negative light. Young people need guidance and in this case the proof is in the pudding. Wonderful, inspirational women.

[Walleye]

8. Good for the dad. But the credit goes to the athletes

I’ve seen Venus and Serena play in different tournaments. Serena won a major only months after giving birth. They are strong women in their own right. No I don’t like the emphasis on the father

[Hortensis]

10. Two thoughts.

1. Anyone examined the stats for black fathers lately? This isn't all about celebrating two successful women.
Itt's celebrating the role a good, very involved father played in their early lives. An extremely valuable message worth not missing.

2. Regarding how many missed it, there's a current trend to examine for one current fashionable message, "The Only True Message." And slamming any other. Like the value of black fathers. It's a national epidemic of knee-jerk intolerance and demand for conformity. Social media have enabled it to rise to mob behavior.

Something for everyone to want to avoid?

[Cracklin Charlie]

11. Richard made those champions.

I love Venus and Serena. They are both fantastic athletes who changed the way tennis is played. And, in Venus’ case, the way female athletes are paid. I’m not honestly sure that there will ever be a tennis player that can dominate the sport as Serena has.

But, Richard and Oracene had to fight for those girls right to even be champions. They tangled with tennis federations, event sponsors, officials, coaches, and the press…all while getting two players ready to compete at the sports highest levels as teenagers. And, they were poor girls competing in a sport where players typically come from a “country club” background.

And they didn’t just compete. They dominated.

I tip my visor to Richard Williams, and the whole Williams family. It took all of them to get there. I can’t wait to see this film.

[Scrivener7]

16. Ew. I'm sure you say of all your favorite male athletes, "His father made him."

[Cracklin Charlie]

24. Do you think Serena and Venus won Wimbledon the first time they picked up a tennis ball?

Did Micheal Jordon slam dunk the first time he went on a basketball court? Did Simone Biles do a round off double back dismount the first time she walked on a balance beam?

Lots of people helped all these people become champions. Their parents, coaches, friends, teammates, opponents, and critics all helped make them great.

When these people get interviewed, do they say I am the greatest, and did this all by myself? No. They thank others for helping them. I commend Richard Williams for his efforts, and his daughters do, too.

[Caliman73]

35. So when are we going to see a "King (Michael Jordan's Dad)" movie?

The point that the OP is making is that it seems odd to focus on the father rather than the athletes. I have no doubt that Richard Williams was critical in the success of his daughters.

What I would think is most important, is how the Williams sisters think of the portrayal, and... were they involved at all in the making of the film. If they helped to make it, to honor their father, then that would change the context significantly.

[Cracklin Charlie]

43. This movie is called "King Richard".

It is about Richard Williams, father of Venus Williams and Serena Williams. Someone can make a different movie about Venus and Serena.

This film, per the title, is obviously going to be about Richard Williams. I think his is a fascinating story, and worthy of a feature film.

[Caliman73]

48. I agree. I actually thought the trailer was pretty good.

I was responding to your line of reasoning about fathers teaching and encouraging their children. I have no problem with the concept of the movie, especially as it appears that the Williams sisters themselves were at least somewhat involved in the process. As I said in another response, we tend to inject our own biases into interpretation of things. Context is critical. I can see how some would react with some concern, given the history of and consistent present day attempts to diminish the accomplishments of women, especially women of color, to a film appearing to lionize a "dad" for his daughters' accomplishments. Like I said, if the Williams sisters were involved with the project and had input, then that eases my concerns, because they likely wanted to pay tribute to their father who helped them become the wonderful women that they are.

The contrast with someone like Michael Jordan is this male centric idea that he made himself into the legend that he is. You see that a lot with men's stories, them fighting, alone, against the odds to become the legend.

[Scrivener7]

37. Sure. That's why we have lots of movies like "The Dad of the Pride of the Yankees."

Happens all the time.

[Cracklin Charlie]

44. This movie is named "King Richard".

It is about Richard Williams.

People can make movies about any thing they want.

[Niagara]

12. You're not missing something.

I haven't heard of this movie until you mentioned it, so I looked it up on imdb.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9620288/



This storyline states that it's:

A look at how tennis superstars Venus and Serena Williams became who they are after the coaching from their father Richard Williams.

A movie review dated October 21, 2021 on the same website also states that this movie is not about Serena and Venus, it's about their father.

[Moosepoop]

13. Considering that the Williams girls are executive producers of the film

I'm going to venture that they are good with the storyline.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

17. Or that's how the director got permission to tell the story

Executive Producer is just a title, they might have had a lot to do with the film, or they might not have. My take is that the story sounds problematic, but that's generally the case with "inspirational" "based on a true story" type movies. But the Williams sisters may be involved and wanting to tell the story of their father, in which case I have no issue.
I haven't seen much complaints about the focus of the story, so I'm thinking it's the latter.

[Moosepoop]

20. It seems to be the latter

How Will Smith’s ‘King Richard’ reveals Venus and Serena Williams’ dad as a sports hero

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2021-09-05/king-richard-director-reinaldo-marcus-green

Because the Williams family is directly involved in the film, people might assume that some rough edges are sanded down and that the relationship Venus and Serena had with each other and their father may be more complicated than the authorized version we see on screen. How did that partnership work between you and the family?

Venus read the script many times and I sat with her and [Venus and Serena’s mother] Oracene [played by Aunjanue Ellis] for hours in Florida, and Venus was talking very specifically about certain scenes. She was like, “Serena is the kind of sister that would skip her match to come see me practice. That’s who we are as a family, and that’s what’s most important to me. Dramatizing certain elements of our life is a no-go.”

That’s so important for me to hear as a filmmaker: Where are the boundaries? Where can we push? You know, you can love each other and still be competitive. There were no holds barred but they were like, “We just want you to be truthful about what is representing us. We don’t want any embellishments for the sake of dramatic license.”

But we met with both Venus and Serena and Oracene separately and Isha as a producer was really our conduit into all the other stories. Lyndrea, who’s one of the other sisters, was also a costumer on our project. It was great to have the balance of having family members who knew what it was like growing up in Compton at a particular time in history.

It sounds like the majority of the family was involved in one way or another. Richard himself was having health issues, but Serena, Venus, at least two of their sisters and their mother were, in the words of the film's director, "directly involved."

[AZSkiffyGeek]

23. Yeah, this doesn't sound as problematic when you dig down into the backstory

Thank God it's not the story of some white coach who taught them how to be champions. That would be even worse.

[Captain Zero]

34. Executive Producers put up $$ to make a movie

Has been my understanding, and for that they know what the movie will be about ?

[Moosepoop]

41. Yes

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-is-an-executive-producer-whats-the-difference-between-an-executive-producer-and-producer#key-responsibilities-of-an-executive-producer-during-preproduction

What Is an Executive Producer?

The executive producer is the person who sources and secures the financing for a film production, either through an independent financing company, through a studio, or by financing it themselves. The executive producer’s biggest priority is making sure there is enough money to complete the project.

Key Responsibilities of an Executive Producer During Pre-Production

Development is the first phase of the filmmaking process, during which time the executive producer(s) explore financing, secure talent, hire producers, and set a budget.

Secure funding: The executive producer must secure funding for a feature film and can do so in several ways:
Finance the film themselves.
Seek out financing from other individuals or financial entities, like production companies or film investment firms.
If the studios pays for a film, it is the EP’s job to present the budget to the studio, with potential overage and projected profit, in order to get funding approval.

Attach talent: The executive producer may pursue “marquee talent”—that is, A-list actors or an acclaimed director—to be a part of the film, making it more enticing to studio buyers or financiers. They also help negotiate the contracts for these stars.

Hire producers: Once the executive producer has secured the funding, they hire producers. (Though bear in mind that in some cases, the producer actually comes on first and works to hire the executive producer). In either case, producers reports to the executive producer.

Approve the budget: The line producer breaks down the script to create the budget. They then present it to the executive producer and producer for approval. Depending on the line producer’s proposed budget, the executive producer may have to raise more funds or put up more of their own.

[BannonsLiver]

30. Yep. End of story.

That little DU controversy had a half life of about an hour. Case closed.

[drexelkathy]

14. They wouldn't have gotten where they are

if they didn't have their parents fighting for them.

Tirelessly and relentlessly.

Those parents fought everyone...to give those girls (now incredible women) the chance.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

18. It's problematic to say that two of the greatest women's athletes of all time

Are only successful because of their father.

[drexelkathy]

19. I said parents, not father

and also...let's start from the beginning.

Those little girls that started off playing tennis? Who took them to and from practices? Likely paid for practices?


They started tennis lessons at 4 years old. I guarantee you that a four-year-old would likely have quit if it wasn't for their parents.


Not to mention, if you read their story, you'll see that this man literally FOUGHT for his daughters. Apparently losing teeth and getting busted ribs in the process.


I'm not discounting their ability one iota. But let's not discount the dedication of their parents fighting to give their ability the chance to shine.


Parents' jobs is to give their children a chance to succeed. It doesn't negate the child's ability...but it is part of the job description for being a parent.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

21. It's great that parents are given trophies for their children's hard work

Oh wait...

[drexelkathy]

22. It is a MOVIE

that Venus and Serena are a part of making.

I'm sorry that the daughters feeling as though their father deserves recognition bothers you so much.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

25. I don't have a problem with the movie

I have a problem with people saying the only reason that they were successful is because of their parents. That diminishes their achievements.

[drexelkathy]

27. It is very rare

That anyone achieves anything in a vacuum.

Appreciating those around you that contribute to success is admirable.

[Scrivener7]

38. You're not getting it.

[drexelkathy]

51. What am I not getting?

They’re incredible women and athletes. Their father really helped them excel.

[Cracklin Charlie]

45. Nobody said the only reason they were successful was their parents.

Nobody.

Their achievements, on and off court, can never be diminished. They are legends.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

46. "Richard made those Champions"

That certainly sounds like the reason they're successful is their parents.

[Cracklin Charlie]

49. I see you didn't quote the body of my post.

I guess I could pretend that you are saying Richard Williams had NO influence on his daughter’s career, and they each accomplished all of it on their own, with no outside influence.

But that wouldn’t be right. I don’t think you are saying that.

I admire the heck out of Richard Williams, although I liked Oracene better during her coaching years. This couple guided two of their children to the very pinnacle of professional athletics, against enormous odds. That is an amazing accomplishment, which in no way diminishes the performance of Venus and Serena. To my mind, the contribution of Richard and Oracene enhances the player’s accomplishments.

But this movie is about Richard, and his efforts to prepare his daughters to be champions on and off the tennis court, a task he performed remarkably. The subject of this movie is Richard Williams, and his remarkable efforts. Venus and Serena’s remarkable efforts are not the subject of this movie.

[Caliman73]

36. It depends on the context.

If the women themselves are endorsing the story then it is significantly less problematic than if it was just some vanity project by the father, or by people who wanted to cash in on controversy or diminish the women.

We also add our own perceptions. Does the film actually say that the ONLY reason for the Williams sisters success was their father? Or... does it portray the critical role that he played in helping them to the opportunity for success.

I am where I am today because of the efforts that my mother and father undertook to make sure I had a place to live, food, access to education, and they pushed me to study and to be inquisitive. If a movie was made about my situation and where I am today, my parents would certainly play a HUGE role in that film.

If 2 of the greatest athletes in the world wanted to make a film, or endorsed a film about how their dad helped them become who they are, why would we deride it as problematic?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

42. I agree somewehat

The context provided further into the thread does make it clear that the Williams sisters have a lot to do with the production, and it does not sound exploitive.

My argument is more with people saying that they would not be successful without their father. That diminishes their achievements to me.

[Caliman73]

50. Understandable. Here is my take...

The thing is, who is to say where they would be if they had a different father or an absent father? What if the father was abusive and discouraged them from playing, or did not provide them with any support to play? They certainly could have still become the superstars that they are. We see a lot of that from actors and singers who had less than good parents.

I don't think that it diminishes anyone's accomplishments by saying they would not be successful without their father. I would be most interested to hear what the sisters themselves say. I don't know them, but I would hazard a guess that they would say, "I wouldn't be where I am today without the support of my mom, dad, and family."

I did the studying and got the grades, and played the sports, and joined the clubs and committees that got me into college. I studied there and put in the effort to get a job and on and on ... I would not have been successful without the support or the framework that my parents provided for me to accomplish those things. It doesn't diminish the hours I put in, the struggle, but like Obama said, "You didn't build that alone". My accomplishments come as a result of, and in some cases, in spite of my family, my community.

I do understand the reaction as it relates to the contrast between how the successes of male athletes/leaders/heroes, etc... are portrayed as lone figures fighting against all odds while women are often only successful as a result of "the village" supporting them.

[csziggy]

26. According to the blurb from Warner it is HIS story

Based on the true story that will inspire the world, King Richard follows the journey of Richard Williams, an undeterred father instrumental in raising two of the most extraordinarily gifted athletes of all time, who will end up changing the sport of tennis forever. Driven by a clear vision of their future and using unconventional methods, Richard has a plan that will take Venus and Serena Williams from the streets of Compton, California to the global stage as legendary icons.
— Warner Bros. Pictures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Richard_(film)#Synopsis

While it is getting it great reviews, it does seem to be mostly the story of the Williams' sisters father rather than that of the daughters who actually made it to the top of their field.

[BannonsLiver]

29. I don't see the problem in this case.

He was hugely impactful on where they are today. Why is chronicling that a bad thing? Are you making the case fathers can’t be impactful?

[FSogol]

32. Exactly. Have black fathers been getting too much attention from Hollywood?

[BannonsLiver]

33. Nope, which is another great point you just made.

I think anytime there’s opportunity to portray black fathers in a positive way Hollywood should be falling over themselves to do it. Terrific point.

[Scrivener7]

39. Have black female athletes?

[Steelrolled]

31. Venus and Serena have received a little bit of news coverage over the years.

And by "little bit" I mean a massive amount, due to their incredible success.

I don't think a movie that focused on their accomplishments would be very interesting.

[Scrivener7]

40. Well, of course. That 1980 olympic hockey team had way too much news coverage. That's why

the movie about them was so uninteresting.

[Takket]

47. Haven't seen the movie obviously but it looks like a biopic of the dad

I mean, it is called King Richard after all lol. And seems like this covers the rise of Venus and Serena as youths, no their pro career.

I don’t see anything here to be offended about.

[Steelrolled]

52. You can always check out the movie that was already made about Venus and Serena

Venus and Serena is a 2012 American documentary film that takes an inside look at lives and careers of professional tennis players, Venus and Serena Williams. The film was directed by Maiken Baird and Michelle Major. It was the official selection at the 2013 Miami International Film Festival, 2012 Toronto Film Festival, 2012 Tribeca Film Festival and 2012 Bermuda Docs Film Festival. Venus and Serena was released by Magnolia Pictures on May 10, 2013.