General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have a few questions for DUers about immigration, RE: You know what this is about
1: How come Afghani refugees were allowed into the country almost immediately, but my wife was denied entry to reunite with her American husband and no one seems to think, nationally, that separating Americans from their families is a gross injustice that needs to be exposed?
2: How come J1, Student visa, and H1-B visas are so easy to receive, but my wife's IR1 takes forever so she can reunite with her American spouse and so few people know or even care?
3: Why can TFG's wife and in-laws, as well as others in that position, get expedited into the country on special visas, but my wife has to wait until the US Government decides she's worthy to enter?
4: Why is there such a push to give "undocumented immigrants" a pathway to citizenship immediately, but there is no push to give foreign spouses and families of American citizens a pathway to a green card?
And finally, why do so few Americans care what happens to Americans and their families? I ask because I am so close to a nervous breakdown (I have stalkers here so I will not say publicly what that "close to a nervous breakdown" means because there are people actively trying to undermine my career and political aspirations) and my wife sobs on video chat every night. People have picked up the fight for DREAMers and the "undocumented," but no one picks up the fight for people in my wife's and my position. We've fought for ten months to get her here and everything seems to have died.
Why is everyone else more important than Americans and their families in America? And why don't people call immigration groups and Congress critters to demand change and oversight to the "legal" immigration system?
underpants
(182,769 posts)No seriously, I hope to learn more about this.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)A well-connected DUer was helping, according to the OPs previous posts. Not sure where things are.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Which I am beyond grateful for, but the Sen. Kelly's office is not giving me excuses and the run around and is now doing the bare minimum. "We contacted NVC over a month ago for you and are still waiting for them to reply."
This is a US Senator's office with access to higher ups. Waiting for a low level functionary to response to an "inquiry" is something I can do without them.
Yet, I personally know someone who started the process after me (LOOOONG after me) and his wife is getting ready for her IR1 interview NOW because the politician's office stepped up and took it onto themselves to do more than send an inquiry letter.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Especially sorry to hear your senators are doing nothing. Thats a real shame.
joetheman
(1,450 posts)have been here for 20 yrs or more with no pathway.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Citizenship takes years, the masses that are coming through now are all people fleeing countries with tyrants in control, cartels, gangs, etc. Mostly from Central America....Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala etc.
They are really just looking for a safe place to live in peace.
What I outlined above is just ONE way that is legal to come to the country.... seeking asylum. Folks who are married to U.S. citizens have other hurdles to go through, and I hope all goes well for them as well.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)is too poor to come visit here.
My wife is "really just looking for a sake place to live with her husband." Does that not matter? And since we have "other hurdles," why aren't people fighting for us rather than making excuses?
I guess my Chinese wife isn't as important as those fleeing tyrants. . .like Xi Jinping.
treestar
(82,383 posts)spouses of US citizens do. So your wife has a chance they don't have.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)by the NVC last month even though our marriage is registered with the consulate in Shanghai. Getting the NVC to change their mind after that is nearly impossible.
My wife has what chance again?
George II
(67,782 posts)Is there an immigration office near you?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)The marriage is registered with the US Consulate in Shanghai. We have that certification. It isn't chinese. It's American.
Voltaire2
(13,009 posts)A complete misreading with a topping of xenophobia. Im impressed.
George II
(67,782 posts)....Chinese authorities was deemed fraudulent. So why take a cheap shot at ME????
This thread has been going on since early this afternoon. Now you drop in and insult me with a false accusation.
I'm sure you can explain your "xeonophobia" comment, right?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)I explained. The marriage happened in China because I lived there from 2008-2020. The marriage was in 2014 in the Jiangsu provincial capital of Nanjing.
When we registered the marriage, we received an official copy in China with a certified English translation, stamped and notarized by the Chinese government in Nanjing. Two days later, we went to the US Consulate in Shanghai and registered the marriage. We were given an official stamped document from the US Government recognizing the marriage and making it official in the US as well.
CBP in SEATAC didn't even look at that. They say her visa and determined she wasn't eligible to come into the states to reunite with her husband to do her green card through adjustment of status. they humiliated her, insulted her, and sent her home.
So we have been doing consular processing since. The USCIS approved our documents. The NVC rejected them as they said the marriage was fraudulent even though we included all documents from the Chinese government and the American consulate.
How is this on the Chinese government? The Americans refused to accept OUR own document from OUR consulate overseas.
Where do you get insults? Where do you get xenophobia?
George II
(67,782 posts)....this discussion began, zeroed in on my post, called me xenophobic, and then ran off again. He got his snarky shot in and booked. Why he chose to respond to that post and ONLY that post only he can explain.
You didn't insult me or accuse me of xenophobia, he did.
Here's his response to my simple post:
85. Well done!
A complete misreading with a topping of xenophobia. Im impressed.
Voltaire2
(13,009 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Why are you even participating in this discussion?
It's been going on for almost 24 hours and there are more than 100 responses to the OP. You've dropped by twice, 12 hours apart, to post two snarky responses to me, neither of which even approaches the substance of the discussion.
So what's your motive here?
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is "xenophobic" to even suggest Chinese officials might not always be perfect?
Voltaire2
(13,009 posts)Bureaucratic failures as the fault of foreigners. But thanks for playing.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and respond negatively to two of my posts hours apart, never once addressing the actual subject under discussion.
Why is that? Do you have any advice or recommendations for the OP or are you just here to attack me.
Do you even know what the topic of discussion is?
L e t m e e x p l a i n i t t o y o u s l o w l y - the documentation from the Chinese agency was deemed fraudulent by the American agency. Where does xenophobia come in? It could have come from Japan, Australia, Mexico, Great Britain, Italy, or any other country. If it was documentation issued by Israel would you call me anti-Semitic, or if it was from the Vatican anti-Catholic, etc.?
You still haven't come up with your logic in calling my post xenophobic or your insulting follow up. Why not?
I anxiously await your next offensive post directed toward me with bated breath.
Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #85)
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Undocumented don't even qualify to apply. They can't be denied because they can't apply.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)We have the certification from the US Consulate in Shanghai when I registered the marriage with them in 2014.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and that people do care about DACA and undocumented. I was pointing out that at least US spouses have a chance to apply for a green card. They can be denied, but at least they can try. The others mentioned have no grounds to apply for a green card at all.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)we have certified translations and certification from the US Consulate in Shanghai that the documents are legit.
Spouses can't be denied?
Complaining. . .nice way of saying it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but at least you can challenge it when it goes back to USCIS - that's part of a pathway the undocumented just don't have. I don't know why it's not complaining - you chided anyone who cares about DACA or undocumented when they should care more about your particular case.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)and the NVC. . .I'm not explaining this again.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... I see no harm in spending an extra 15 seconds to catch someone up. What good purpose does it serve to get aggravated with someone trying to learn more or offer assistance?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)They're not saying "we think that this documentation is fake", they're saying "we think this marriage was entered into solely for the purpose of gaining legal entry to the US". See for instance the following:
9 FAM 504.2-5(C)(1) (U) Effect of Marriage Fraud Amendments Act of 1986, Public Law 99-639
(CT:VISA-353; 04-26-2017)
a. (U) The Marriage Fraud Amendments Act of 1986 prohibits DHS approval of petitions in certain instances where the spouse of an alien obtained immigrant status on the basis of marriage which took place while administrative or judicial proceedings were pending. (See 9 FAM 504.2-5(C)(2) below.) If the petition is approved by DHS in error, consular officers must return the petition to the DHS adjudicating office. If such a petition is presented to a consular officer for approval, the consular officer must consider the petition not clearly approvable and forward the petition to DHS.
b. (U) The Immigration Act of 1990, however, provides for an exemption if the petitioner provides clear and convincing evidence that:
(1) (U) The marriage was entered into in good faith and in accordance with the laws of the place where the marriage took place;
(2) (U) The marriage was not entered into for the purpose of procuring the aliens entry as an immigrant; and
(3) (U) No fee or other consideration was given for the filing of the petition.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)I think it's BS, but what I can do? There is no appeal at the NVC.
They are also not supposed to use race, sex, and whatnot in their approvals and denials at the border with the 1967 updates to the INA of 1952, but prove they don't.
You can keep quoting the law to try to prove something, but the fact of the matter is the NVC said that to me in September.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Ask what they find wrong with the certificate?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Since they have previously verified that.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)document showing the registration with the consulate. There was NOTHING more they could do.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)1) deciding it was entered into for the sole purpose of obtaining a US entry visa.
2) evidence of an existing prior spouse for the immigrating partner.
It's either of those, and not "we think these documents are fake".
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)1: We got married in 2014 after three years of dating. We started this process on March 3rd of 2021.
2: Neither of us have ever been married before.
But your sideswipe to me that I am lying is duly noted.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... the authorities suspected or believed to be the case. That doesn't mean that the poster is suggesting that you're lying. Instead, it's likely that the authorities can be wrong/mistaken about the facts and your characterization that they believed the documents were "fake" was an over-simplification that failed to provide the details needed for people to offer assistance.
So, the poster offered two highly probable and specific reasons that the authorities have rejected the documents (rather than a very broad and generic description of "fake".) Maybe it would be possible that this comment (from a DUer who was trying to be helpful) could be put to productive use. The anger and frustration you're feeling is certainly understandable, but the targets being chosen to receive the brunt of the anger do not deserve it.
Best of luck to you both!
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)But I think you need to get a good lawyer who can help you. If they are denying it based on the marriage certificate maybe that situation can be helped by a lawyer getting involved.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)I have asked many.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)I am not sure what those are I will look them up. I would still try to get some free over the phone advice. I have been getting advice for free so far from a lawyer I contacted regarding my fathers wrongful death recently at a hospital.
treestar
(82,383 posts)There is a procedure to reaffirm the approval.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)petition back to USCIS and there is a chance to give evidence/arguments to gain a USCIS reaffirmance of their approval. USCIS believed the marriage certificate was genuine enough to approve the petition. That's on the end of the pathway and you apparently aren't aware. That can also be appealed to the courts in the US.
No consular judicial review sucks, but courts have held that Congress intended to give the Executive branch unreviewable power over these matters as they have some diplomatic effect. IMO that sucks too, no Executive power should be unreviewable, but that's the law (also including CBP's unreviewable decisions about admission at the border).
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)We are at the NVC stage.
mathematic
(1,439 posts)There's gotta be a paper trail of some sort, right? What do the people at the consulate in Shanghai say about the ruling that the document is fraudulent?
This seems like a bureaucratic problem not a policy problem. Why blame people for wanting to fix policy around other immigration issues?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)NVC can deny for any and all reason. CBP can deny for any and all reason. It is both problems. There is no oversight.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)I suspect the underlying problem is visibility and the inability to care about "invisible" problems.
And, for years there were "arranged" marriages of convenience for citizenship or green cards. As usual, the overreaction was to make things tougher rather than sensible.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)If COVID19 didn't force me back to the US, we wouldn't be doing this.
Our marriage isn't arranged for citizenship. She has no desire to give up her Chinese citizens until her parents pass away.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)bureaucratic mess.
Personally, I believe in open borders. It is worth the occasional inconvenience.
Tetrachloride
(7,834 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 22, 2021, 03:09 PM - Edit history (2)
1. Moral capacity . how many people and ideas can you keep in your head
2. Political ability.
3. Moral quality. The willingness to lift people from a certain level to a certain higher level. or push them down.
4. moral view: to what degree are a group viewed as human
5. one more.. moral consistency (edited for this last one)
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Tetrachloride
(7,834 posts)industrial engineering to list those factors.
one of my mentors in moral psychology was Robert Enright, University of Wisconsin - Madison. Once upon a time, i reviewed most of these concepts with him.
As it turns out, i am involved in foreign issues. Immigration is one of the 3 broad issues under serious discussion.
i hesitated to begin another foreign language, but its inevitable as it turns out.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)It was a general statement about that line of thinking.
Jilly_in_VA
(9,965 posts)Those are the people you usually go to in order to get these things expedited. They can often get special measures passed or do some other magic. It's worth a try.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Both my senators ignored me (until a DUer stepped in) and my Congressmen refused to even take phone calls.
Sinema is useless and Grijalva has a reputation down here in Southern Arizona to only care if you are female and Mexican. Unfortunately, my wife is Chinese.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I thought I read about a DUer who actively has tried to help you?
Perhaps Ive got this mixed up because Im not here so much, but I thought a DUer was actually helping behind the scenes? Most undocumented immigrants dont have someone helping.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)All we hear about is a supposed refugee crisis.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Not really sure where youre going with this. I understood a DUer had contacted a senator or congressperson about your situation.
Did that not work out?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)It is not DFW's fault. I love him to death. It's the office's fault for doing next to nothing.
hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)And I truly understand and feel your frustration. I'm not in disagreement with your points, either, but I'd ask you to be very cautious about pointing at Afghanis--thereby pitting their case against that of your very deserving wife. Given the horrific hell hole that Afghanistan was and has rapidly returned to under the Taliban, I think even those who most want to help you with your wife's case can see an immediacy there that is just not the same.
If you can use those who have been through the process (DFW and others) to strategize and then let all of us know how we can help, I know you'd find many more than willing to do so.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)It was a comparison I was making, not singling them out. They deserve to come here. We were going to do an adjustment of status when she was coming in February, same as the Afghani refugees will do.
But she was denied entry in Seattle and subjected to the most sadistic, anti-Chinese treatment you could imagine. Back in Shanghai after she was back there, she actually asked me what a "chink" was because that's what the CBP officers all called her.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)the skin on your fingers wears off.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Both parties motivate their bases, and raise millions off of immigration challenges.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)the money train stops.
It's like medicine. Sell remedies, not cures.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)That's it in a nutshell
Celerity
(43,314 posts)alwaysinasnit
(5,064 posts)last client has been waiting for a consular interview for his wife for a year now.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/politics/biden-challenge-immigration-visa-backlog-invs/index.html
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)And then trumpers put in charge of immigration and entry at the borders doesn't help either, considering they have 100% authority to deny for any and no reason with absolutely no appeal, redress, or oversight.
Wingus Dingus
(8,052 posts)I wonder if if that affects your wife's status? Seems to be related to a Covid backlog of some sort. Maybe you need a new immigration lawyer, is the only other thing I can think of. I feel bad for your situation.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Right now, COVID19 isn't affecting the NVC. The next step, getting her interview, is COVID19 related.
Immigration lawyers have told me that this is out of their hands now. All they can do is make sure all documents are done correctly. They can't sue the NVC to get them off their keesters to do their job or sue because they declared my marriage certification from China that is officially translated and notarized fraudulent.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Going to waste would only apply to quota based cases, since that means there were that many left and quota immigrants could not use them.
WilmywoodNCparalegal
(2,654 posts)Immigration law practitioner here...
1: How come Afghani refugees were allowed into the country almost immediately, NOT TRUE... THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH SO CALLED SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISAS (SIV) THAT WERE HANDLED THROUGH THE US DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND ARE VERY SIMILAR IN NATURE TO THE SAME CONSULAR PROCESSING YOUR WIFE IS PROBABLY GOING THROUGH... but my wife was denied entry UNDER WHAT BASIS? CAN YOU GIVE ME INFORMATION? DID YOU FILE AN I-130 ALIEN RELATIVE PETITION AND THEN THROUGH THE NATIONAL VISA CENTER? I NEED DETAILS to reunite with her American husband and no one seems to think, nationally, that separating Americans from their families is a gross injustice that needs to be exposed? I NEED MORE INFO
2: How come J1, Student visa, and H1-B visas are so easy to receive, NOT TRUE AT ALL... J-1S ARE NOT EASY. F-1S ARE NOT EASY (NOT TO MENTION THE EXHORBITANT TUITION FEES). H-1B VISAS ARE CERTAINLY NOT EASY - THERE IS A CAP ON H-1B VISAS BY CONGRESS AND YOU HAVE TO BE SELECTED IN THE LOTTERY TO EVEN FILE but my wife's IR1 takes forever so she can reunite with her American spouse and so few people know or even care? AGAIN, WHAT HAPPENED? NEED DETAILS
3: Why can TFG's wife and in-laws, as well as others in that position, get expedited into the country on special visas NO THEY DIDN'T. ALL I CAN SAY IS I HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF MELANIA'S IMMIGRATION SITUATION AND NO, MOST REPORTS ON THE SUBJECT - INCLUDING HERE ON DU - ARE QUITE INACCURATE but my wife has to wait until the US Government decides she's worthy to enter? AGAIN, NEED DETAILS
4: Why is there such a push to give "undocumented immigrants" a pathway to citizenship immediately, but there is no push to give foreign spouses and families of American citizens a pathway to a green card? ON THIS I AGREE. THE LEGAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARDS TO FAMILY- AND EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRATION, NEEDS TO BE REVAMPED AND MODERNIZED. IT TOOK ME 14 YEARS TO GET A GREEN CARD LEGALLY AND IN THE MEANTIME I WAS A PROFESSIONAL STUDENT IN F-1 STATUS.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)1: My wife was denied entry at SEATAC. No reason was given. They just said she was ineligible for entry. Talk to them, not me.
2: J1 for people at my district took shorter to approve than my wife, who is still waiting.
If you want details, PM me. I've passed USCIS with the I130. This is now at the NVC.
My wife isn't family based, it's an immigrant visa. IR, not FB. You can tell me everything I say is untrue. . .I am relating my experiences.
Spouses of American citizens should not go through this, and the American government should not be in the business of separating Americans from their families.
treestar
(82,383 posts)not going well, but there is a pathway. it may not always succeed, but you can apply for the US citizen spouse. The undocumented are that way because there is no pathway to get on.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)in order to do an Adjustment of Status. . .and why they NVC rejected my wedding cert even though another department in the Dept of State approved it with an official certification from the US Consulate in Shanghai.
treestar
(82,383 posts)some are denied. There is a pathway, but it is not always successful. The undocumented have no pathway whatsoever.
RandomNumbers
(17,600 posts)Walk through any IT department of any major US company and tell me again that H-1B are hard to get. If they are difficult, it is only due to the number of applicants. and yes, I know about the lottery. I also know that some seriously unqualified and under-educated people manage to skate through that "high skills" requirement.* I also know that some cheating temp staff companies figured out how to get multiple slots in the lottery when they only have one position, thus improving chances of their guys coming over.
The REASON so many people get here on H-1B visas is that companies (not necessarily the direct managers of the filled positions) prefer certain aspects of the H-1B model over hiring Americans (of any color - but good luck finding black Americans in programming departments). Both parties are afraid of pissing off the tech companies by shutting off their supply of wage slaves.
* some H-1B hires are quite good, actually high-skilled, and wonderful people to work with. But the program has a pretty high miss rate with that "high skills" target. Or whoever called it that has a much different definition of "high skills" than I do. Ya know what? Maybe raise the bar for that skills requirement a bit. Then for the individuals that DO qualify, they have less competition in the lottery and it becomes easier for them. They deserve it and we need them - let's do that!! But no, it will somehow raise costs on the corporations who take advantage of the program, so never mind, can't risk that campaign cash.
Tetrachloride
(7,834 posts)Obiwan Kenobi also spoke on alternatives.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Tetrachloride
(7,834 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)And she's a Chinese citizen.
Tetrachloride
(7,834 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Then there are the COVID19 restrictions.
We're looking at Thailand, but she still needs to get through the NVC before we talk about getting her here again.
Response to AZLD4Candidate (Reply #40)
Tetrachloride This message was self-deleted by its author.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Well, that's the strangest thing. Are you able to tell if this is an across-the-board problem that others are also having? Or does it seem to be that you (or your wife) are being "targeted" for some reason? Or if not actively "targeted" could it be there's some problem with the paperwork, or license, or ANYTHING that's not quite right and that's holding things up? Are you able to get a valid International Marriage License? Seems like that's the only thing that would be needed (or, if not the "only" thing... it seems like it would give a significant start to the process and would get the ball rolling.)
Do you have a good lawyer? Or are you trying to do this all by yourself?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Trust me, I've contacted many.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Or could there be some other legitimate issue or technicality/snag that you're not yet aware of?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)xenophobes Congress had during the McCarthy era, and the fact there is no oversight or right to appeal after a decision is made. . .it's an endemic problem.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... then that's something that needs to be addressed differently than trying to find and isolate a specific reason that you're having such difficulty. I certainly don't envy the task and challenge you have ahead of you.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)visa and a valid I94 form.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)with an invitation letter from Microsoft and she was denied entry and forced to pay for her plane ticket back to Shanghai.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)And they don't need to explain under their authority under the Walter/McCarran Act of 1952.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Does she have the same name as someone else in the immigration watch-list (or whatever list they're using) that may be causing the problem?
It's my understanding that there are other work-arounds that could be employed to bypass this situation. Of course, it's insulting and seemingly unnecessary to do these things, but rather than curse the darkness, wouldn't it be better to simply "like a candle" (ie: do whatever it takes) rather than fussing about the way it "ought to be".
Many of the delays are baked-in (especially for China) and that's just the way it is. As unfair as it feels to you, I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that no amount of complaining is going to make any improvements that cause the typical delays to have any significant improvements.
Good luck to you both!
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Just from what Ive read. Somehow that could be rectified?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Just trying to make sense of what Ive read.
Somehow they dont recognize the marriage. I dont know anything about this kind of thing, but it seems if there was a marriage certificate they recognized as legitimate all would be well?
Response to BlackSkimmer (Reply #43)
AZLD4Candidate This message was self-deleted by its author.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)We have both the original, a certified translation, and the certification form the US Consulate in Shanghai.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)If you're in an endless loop of getting nowhere, step back and start over from square-one. Documenting everything. Getting names and numbers and verbal/written confirmations/approvals every step of the way. Then when something goes wrong (if it does) then you could easily (or logically) retrace the process to the last point where it was successful than start from there.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Why is this all being put on my shoulders? The tenor of most of these responses is "what did you do wrong?"
This is the system.
Why would our marriage certification be "fraudulent" when the US State Department verified and certified it as legit?
Again, NVC, Consular Officers, and CBP can deny for any reason or no reason, and there is NO APPEAL!!! This is the system two Democrats wrote up and forced through Congress over Truman's veto.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)You put the issue out there and everyone is brainstorming and trying to help.
Like Nurse Jackie says,if theyre setting up hoops for you to jump through, and thats what you have to do
well hell, get at it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Nobody is "putting it on your shoulders" ... rather than taking offense, I think you should take things at face value and assume that they're trying to understand (and trying to help). Questions don't always mean that you're being blamed or faulted.
These are just scatter-shot and brainstorming ideas that may or may not help. If the question or idea helps, then act on it. If they don't help, then ignore them. It really serves no good purpose to lash out at people for responding with their ideas.
Honestly, I had some other info that I looked up and was going to share with you. But, I won't do that now.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)16 month separation from my wife that the US Government has extended prevented you from sharing with me out of spite, I accept.
Sorry if my nerves are beyond frayed. If that offends you, I ask you to walk a yard the shoes I've walked miles in before casting judgement against me.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... that's all I'm saying. There's no excuse for that.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Because he isn't going to see his family and has to listen to her sob every night on wechat asking me when we'll be together.
Nothing like adding more to the pile. I don't want your help. I'm sorry, I'm going to be guilt tripped because I see no way out of this.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Nobody is attacking you. But when people throw out ideas to HELP you... even if they're "off-target" it's a big mistake to lash out. Advice is meant to help... use it or discard it. But for anyone to take things so fucking personally and ATTACK and INSULT those who are reaching out and answering your desperate calls for help. I know that if I did such a thing, people would accuse me of being selfish.
That's all I'm trying to say.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Thank you.
I don't want to interact with you. I felt I was being attacked and I responded as someone who is falling apart emotionally, psychologically, and mentally. You seem to not have any empathy and want to browbeat.
Please don't speak to me anymore. You're just lecturing and I don't want to hear it anymore.
I take it personally because this is my family and my wife that I haven't seen in 16 months. You don't understand how I feel. You don't know what I am going through and I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
As a nurse (if you are), you should understand people out of balance when things have fallen apart. You should also know how sensitive people are in positions like mine when you have no one to talk to because your family (non-wife) has treated you.
A little empathy would be nice, as would a soft touch.
You can accuse me of anything you want. You think I would be in this state if my wife were with me.
If you refuse to understand that, please leave me alone. If you can, show a little empathy and understanding about how soul destroying the last 16 months have been and why I am in a dark place where I am about to completely meltdown.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You weren't asking for empathy, you were seeking advice. You just didn't like or agree with the advice. You took unnecessary offense at the questions and the theories. That's a mistake.
Again, there's no reason to lash out at people who are trying to help and who would otherwise be your allies. Why do that?
Questions are questions. Nothing more. Suggestions are only suggestions, nothing more. Theories are also nothing more... there's no reason to be offended by them. Obviously people suggest and ask and theorize because they're trying to help... but you feel attacked?
We're all just human and we see someone in pain and in distress. I doubt that the folks who have responded to you are psychologists or psychiatrists or family-counselors. Why would anyone expect them to be? There's no need to take it out on people who felt sympathy and compassion for you (albeit not in the quantities that were expected or needed... at least people tried.)
That's something to be thankful for, at least, right?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)You are doing the damage now.
I've only responded to people as to what the law says. You're the one swearing at me and browbeating me.
Please leave me alone.
Everyone else has been great, spoke their input, and I responded with what the law says. Even the person who told me to remarry my wife and all the people who said "talk to a lawyer."
I responded with respect. You've attacked me and swore at me. Please you, NurseJackie, don't speak to me anymore. You have no idea how miserable I am and how much pain I am in. And based on your replies to me, you don't seem to care much.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Immigration is not the same as getting a license at the DMV. And for some countries (India and China) it appears as though the long waits are "baked-in" to the process. Nobody is singling you out based on the evidence provided. It's just a frustrating process and you've stumbled upon a roadblock. There are other ways to get around that roadblock... you both can "jump through hoops" and take a little detour that will STILL allow you to arrive at your destination.
I guess, in the end, you'll have to decide if the VERY SLOW straight-line path of getting from point-A to point-Z is really want's most important. Or, instead, is it worthwhile to take some side-roads, and paths through the woods... that will allow you to circumvent the obstacles... and get back to finally arriving at your destination. That's all.
If I'm driving on the interstate to my vacation spot, and I hear that a bridge has been washed out... I'm not going to stubbornly sit there in traffic and curse at the construction crew while they rebuild the bridge. Instead, I'd circle-back and re-map/re-plot and take some side roads and come up with an alternate plan. I think that's the gist of the best advice people are giving to you.
In the end, it's always your choice: sit in traffic and wait it out, OR, find an alternate route. But I think, also, that the sympathy will begin to wane for anyone who wants to wait and curse the process. Good luck!
George II
(67,782 posts)....every one of them, including me.
And now it's "I don't want your help."
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)PM and not in public.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Though why anyone would submit such a thing is a mystery. The more common problem is the certificate itself is genuine (not a forgery) but the marriage is just for green card purposes.
If they think the certificate is forged, all the OP would have to do is go get married again, and get a good certificate.
A Chinese marriage certificate, per the State Department, has to be:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/China.html
from a certain place, and have the characteristics described.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)fraudulent even though it was created at the Jiangsu provincial government in Nanjing, had a certified translation, and was verified with the US Government already.
I was married in 2014 in Nanjing.
If they think the certificate is forged, all the OP would have to do is go get married again, and get a good certificate. Get married AGAIN? So I would need to divorce my wife, lose everything with her Green Card, get married again even though I couldn't got back to China with a tourist visa since they aren't allowing TOURISTS in, and get married in Nanjing again?
Then I will need to start all thinks over again with the Dept of State for her Green Card.
I'm starting to get really upset that people can be this flippant in their responses to my questions.
Finally, THE NVC is completely unaccountable. they can do whatever they want with no appeal! That's the law.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)then they don't accept that you are married. So marry again and get a certificate that they will see as genuine. Covid problems are different. Also, relitigate with the USCIS when they send the petition back. That is part of the pathway too.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)If they approved it, they can tell him what to do, surely?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)They told me all they can do is give me a new document since they cannot control what the NVC does.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Can she go there and tell them the situation?
Edited to add that Americans can travel to China now, especially if dealing with family issues.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Ugh
Relitigate with the USCIS. . .and pay every fee again?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... and also in Scotland. One doesn't negate the other, but it makes everything nice and tidy and covers all bases for any entity that prefers one particular ceremony or license over the other. It's just a formality. If that's what it takes to ensure success, why not do it? While it may be an inconvenience, and while one could rationally argue that they ought-not be "forced" to take such measures... as long as it helps you to reach your final goal, why not go ahead?
Every agency has obsolete rules and requirements and unnecessary redundancy that make zero sense. And when dealing with something as politically charged as immigration (and with a country like China which has many restrictions and MUCH LONGER wait-times than other countries) I don't think it's avoidable.
But if you put your mind to it, and if you're willing to be flexible and bend with the ever-changing breezes, then I'm sure that you'll find success. It's just a matter of sticking to it and exploring all the avenues available to you. Do what's required rather than trying to argue with authority about how unfair or ridiculous the rules/procedures may be. You could spend a lifetime trying to change the rules/procedures and get absolutely nowhere. Or you could methodically work your way through the archaic and tedious and politically motivated processes and eventually find success.
Good luck to you both!
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)One doesnt have to divorce to marry again.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... this thread reminded me of all the crazy things that Cary Grant and Ann Sheridan had to do while navigating through all the requirements of the War Bride Act. In spite of all the absurdities (and the fact that Grant's character was resentful of all the hoops he had to hop through) Ann Sheridan was the logical one who, because she was an Army Lieutenant had grown accustomed to absurd rules and requirements and forms. He was the emotional one and she was logical and methodical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Was_a_Male_War_Bride
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)One of my parents favorite movies!
hunter
(38,310 posts)... especially in times of war or economic uncertainty.
My wife's grandparents and their ancestors experienced some truly terrible things.
One of my wife's grandmothers was so bitter about that history that she never sought U.S. citizenship, even though she was a property owning legal resident here. These breakups were last repeated during the Great Depression when some of her siblings, facing unemployment and extreme discrimination in the workplace, decided they'd be better off living with extended family in Mexico. Her nephews and nieces born in Mexico had to fight a perversely unhelpful and hostile bureaucracy to rejoin their families to the U.S.A. even though they had siblings born in the U.S.A. and their parents were legal residents or citizens when they left the U.S.A.. Some of her nephews and nieces decided it simply wasn't worth the trouble.
The irony is my wife's grandmother was largely Native American. Many of her ancestors had been living in what's now the Southwestern U.S.A. for thousands of years.
That wasn't the U.S.A. history I learned in school, growing up in an affluent community that was 99% white. So far as I knew ( except for that unfortunate incident at the Alamo... ) everybody in the American Southwest wanted to be assimilated by the U.S.A., even the "good" Indians and Catholics.
Demovictory9
(32,449 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,121 posts)I'm thinking of the Jay Peak resort scandal in Vermont where the developer stole millions from immigrant investors.
Demovictory9
(32,449 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,121 posts)It might save you some time if you did an advanced search using the key words "Jay Peak" in the thread titles.
Demovictory9
(32,449 posts)Skittles
(153,149 posts)many of us DO care about these issues (for example, DFW)
my mum had a green card (although she was never interested in being American)
I have helped neighbors with these issues (filing paperwork)
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)I know people care, but we need to push more for real immigration reform including what has happened to my wife which, according my the immigration attorneys I've spoken it, is much more common than we know and the media/pols don't seem to care/notice.
This is what I mean about not doing anything. It is not a slight at anyone here on DU, even if it appears to be.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Got it.
🙄
There have been some generous DUers here who have offered professional advice & personal advice. Yet their advice is always met with more but..but....
I'm hearing nothing as to the result of taking their professional advice.
Oh well.
Good luck with your AZ Campaign, then.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)the system is designed to keep families apart.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Well. To all the posters here who've offered advice whether from your own experience or on a professional level.
I'll offer the thank you that seems to be often overlooked, in favor of building perhaps, something else.
Perhaps a "thanks, & will let you know with a follow up. Appreciate the advice."
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)I didn't ask for advice. I have immigration lawyers for that. I asked questions.
Go back to the consulate: We did that and I have explained what they said.
Get an immigration lawyer: They only put the documents together. NVC can decide if they accept them
Get remarried: So I need to divorce my wife, who is in China, remarry, and start over?
They don't just deny documents: Yes they do because there is no oversight
Get media involved: Media in Tucson as ignored every request to get involved
Get Pols involved: Sinema ignored me, Grijalva told me they can do nothing, Kelly is doing next to nothing
Contact NVC: It takes a month to get back to you and all you get is a form letter. I have that response already.
Any other advice that we haven't already done?
You even told me that I am using this to a build a campaign plank. You insulted me by saying that when all I want is my wife in my arms again. My campaign means nothing compared to that. You owe me an apology for that nasty comment.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Confusing.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Like the other DUer, please do not speak to me again.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)You cant tell posters where or to whom they respond.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)All the best!
Budi
(15,325 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Really cant make head nor tails of it.
Budi
(15,325 posts)"we need to push more for real immigration "
Literally everybody on this board agrees with that decades old problem.
What would you, as a candidate from AZ do to change immigration that the laws currently in place, State to Federal, are holding up the process.
THAT IS THE ELECTION WINIING Million Dollar Question.
Becaise immigration policy as it stands today, is so deeply embedded in our legal system after decades of quick fixes & bandaids that it will require a massive overhaul to simplify, and that of course, requires inclusion of not only our own State & Federal laws but adherance to international immigration laws of each individual country as well, just to bring everyone to the same page.
(Feel free to include my statement in your campaign speech) w /credit to DUer Budi.
Your welcome.
So, Candidate from AZ, where will you begin?
Thanks.
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Goodbye.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Good question though.
Budi
(15,325 posts)I'm going with post 151, since we're left with nothing but our own interpretation.
I noticed the typical deflected insults, when confronted with an actual qestion about How Would You, as a Candidate address the changes needing to be made to simplify the decades old pit of legal entanglements between State & Federal immigration laws?.
No answer.
Ya. Its a campaign thing.
Ok then.
Good luck. I truly hope the decades old immigration debacle will be simplified because of your addressing it throughout your campaign Mr AZLD4Candidate.
You've certainly received some sound advice here, to move forward with an election winning solution to a problem that affects so many inside & outside of our borders.
Will look forward to your presentation of a step by step solution.
Thanks & good luck!
#StayBlue💙
Generic Brad
(14,274 posts)Decades ago when my wife and I decided to get married, she returned to her country when her tourist visa expired. Then we applied for a fiancee visa and waited more than a year for it to get approved. Once it was, she returned and we got married. Then she was unable to work for close to a year while the green card status was approved on her permanent residency.
In contrast, I knew people who got married abroad or got married here in the States without a fiancee visa in hand. They experienced years of red tape similar to what it sounds like you are experiencing, but that was back in the 1980's.
I confess I have not kept up to date with how it works today since she is now a citizen. Is the fiancee visa path of least resistance option still available and did you go that route?
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Generic Brad
(14,274 posts)I am so sorry to read about your difficulties. In my view, since you are a citizen, you and your spouse should be fast tracked to be be together. That should be a benefit of citizenship.
JI7
(89,247 posts)when it's a case of an American getting married to someone in another country and then wanting to bring that person here.
And then there are all the political issues between countries and China would probably be a more difficult country than if your spouse was from Japan or the UK .
As for the AFghan refugees . it's not so simple. Ithink many are held in camps or bases or centers or whatever you want to call it and they are checking them to see if they can stay or send them somewhere else. The reason they got out was because of the situation there which is not the same in China .
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)I know what you're talking about because you've posted about it.
I also know that a lot of posters here have done the best they can to help. And that at least one person has done more than just give online advice.
I hope that the issue(s) you and your wife are having to struggle through get worked through with the best possible results. A lot of folks have given out good info to help.
But, I also hope you know those issues aren't going to get solved here.
Celerity
(43,314 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)This will certainly be helpful to the OP!
AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Celerity
(43,314 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,680 posts)Celerity
(43,314 posts)Good luck. Sounds like you may well need it. Shame your wife is not in one of the politically favoured classes.
Also, bear in mind you are paying a price for a tremendous amount of scamming and fraud from the other end.
We have similar issues here in Sweden and the UK, especially with multinational (so often American founded and/or based) firms colluding to bring in sweatshop level labour. Globalisation's gaping maw always has a hunger for worker exploitation, even here in the heart of the advanced world with our myriad labour protections, far beyond the US's.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Oh well.