Florida looking at withdrawing from OSHA

[Nevilledog]

Company owned by Florida lawmaker pushing to withdraw from OSHA was fined by the agency

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article255217036.html


Hours after Thursday’s unexpected request by Gov. Ron DeSantis for lawmakers to return to Tallahassee and pass laws against vaccine mandates, Florida’s top GOP legislators had a surprise of their own.

Florida should remove itself from the direct federal oversight of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, they said. The proposal was a reaction to President Joe Biden’s administration announcing a rule, to be enforced by that agency, that says private businesses with 100 or more employees must require their workers to be vaccinated against the coronavirus or undergo weekly testing.

Instead of submitting directly to federal regulations, Florida would create its own workforce safety program — an idea that could cost millions and make the state the first to withdraw from direct OSHA oversight in nearly 40 years.

House Speaker Chris Sprowls, R-Palm Harbor, and Senate President Wilton Simpson, R-Trilby, wrote in a joint statement that the federal agency’s regulations are “onerous” and that a state program could “alleviate” state employers and employees.

*snip*

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Fuck that cesspool.

[AJT]

6. I agree

and I live there

[skydive forever]

24. Yeah, me too

[AJT]

47. I feel your pain...

I live in The Villages.......you don't get much crazier

[Celerity]

7. +1

[Celerity]

2. How the fuck can they just arbitrarily 'opt-out'? That violates the supremacy clause, no?

[TomSlick]

16. They cannot overcome the supremacy clause. It's political posturing.

Dangerous posturing but posturing nonetheless.

[former9thward]

20. It is not posturing.

22 states have opted out.

[TomSlick]

22. Nevertheless, it's posturing.

The Supremacy clause is clear. States - not even all fifty of them - can avoid or "opt out" of federal law.

Even the current SCOTUS would ignore the Supremacy clause. To do so would lessen its authority.

[former9thward]

26. Federal OSHA law allows states to opt out

So yes they can and 22 have done it including CA.

[TomSlick]

29. States can opt out of OSHA regulations IF they have an OSHA approved state plan.

OSHA approval of a state plan can be revoked by OSHA if the State is not maintaining necessary standards. If states could simply opt out of OSHA regulations with which they disagree, no red state would be subject to OSHA.

[former9thward]

31. I didn't say regulations.

They opt out of federal enforcement. There is a great deal of difference between state and federal enforcement of OSHA regulations. I worked for OSHA for 14 years. OSHA is a very tiny federal agency and its ability to monitor what states are doing in the field is almost zero.

[TomSlick]

33. Ah. But the story is about Florida opting out of OSHA oversight to avoid vaccination regulations.

States cannot simply decide that OSHA regulations do not apply within their borders.

OSHA may not be a largest tiger in the federal menagerie but is hardly toothless. When OSHA chooses to enforce its regulations, it can certainly do so.

[former9thward]

37. OSHA has a grand total of 700 inspectors in the field at any given time.

That is to inspect about 35,000,000 worksites in this country. If you do the math you find that each worksite has the chance of seeing an OSHA inspector every 140 years or so.

[TomSlick]

45. And yet, I have seen employers in the backwaters of Arkansas quaking in their boots

with the arrival of an OSHA investigator.

Don't sell OSHA short. OSHA investigators are clearly stretched thin and over worked. Nevertheless, while too small, OSHA is sharp of tooth and claw.

Thank you for your service in OSHA. Your service was essential to the safety of American workers and praiseworthy, especially because of how overworked you were.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

52. Here's a number from November 2020:

If I spend some time, I can find a number from 2021.

OSHA Inspector Numbers Increase for First Time in Trump’s Term

Nov. 27, 2020, 5:31 AM

• 790 inspectors in FY 2020
• Congress approved 50 new positions

For the first time in President Donald Trump‘s term in office, the number of OSHA inspectors increased from the previous year’s staffing level, according to newly released agency data.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration ended fiscal year 2020 on Sept. 30 with 790 compliance and safety officers, numbers Bloomberg Law obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request show.

That total is 38 more inspectors than OSHA closed fiscal 2019 with, but still 70 fewer than the agency had in fiscal 2014, before lower budgets forced cutbacks. The 752 inspectors for 2019 was the lowest number ever for the 50-year-old agency.

{snip}

New Hires

The 790 inspectors include 451 safety officers, 269 industrial hygienists who specialize in health inspections, and 70 engineers. During 2020, the agency hired 114 of those inspectors and internally assigned 13 employees to inspection jobs, according to OSHA.

{snip}

In addition to those 790 inspectors, OSHA’s field enforcement staff at the end of 2020 included 82 area office directors and 122 assistant area office directors, about the same numbers as in 2019. Altogether, OSHA had 994 enforcement field staff in 2020, up from 957 in 2019.

{snip}

Thanks for the post.

[BootinUp]

58. I agree with your take

and that was my thinking too. Well stated.

[SCantiGOP]

17. They can't

The states are allowed to have their own agency enforce the OSHA rules if they meet minimum requirements and are approved. US Dept of Labor just announced that they are revoking that permission for three states. One of them is SC, and the Governor is suing to try to stop the Feds from taking direct control.

So, no Florida, you cannot pull out of OSHA any more than you could from Social Security.

[former9thward]

19. 22 states have opted out including CA

It is allowed under federal OSHA law.

[Celerity]

23. thanks

[bluestarone]

60. I had NO IDEA this was possible!

TY for your contribution here! Just for the record, IF the Federal Gov. requires masks AND vaccinations on ALL passenger transportation service's, can ANY State stop this? TKS again.

[former9thward]

62. No because those are under federal jurisdiction.

And there is no provision in the law to allow states to opt out. There is a provision in the federal OSHA law allowing states to opt out of federal enforcement.

[Maru Kitteh]

64. Via Tom Slick's post - they can only opt out IF

they have OSHA-approved state agencies in place to enforce the same standards. So that means opting out would have no effect on the mandate.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15975134

[Blaukraut]

3. WTF is wrong with Florida? Were they always this nuts or is De Santis making it worse? n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

13. Florida is steep in backwater channels.

They could do away with the Federal laws, and nothing would change for the connected people in this State. Actually, it would improve for them, because they wouldn't have to pretend to care about the rest of us.

[lindysalsagal]

4. All the bad things I've previously said about florida

I hereby don't take back.

Sometimes I think maybe we should allow florida and texas to be their own countries. Stop paving their roads, inspecting their food, allowing them to use federal banks, stop insisting they comply with federal laws. And also stop paying federal programs like social security and national insurance programs. Drop out of FDIC. Let them find their own way in the world.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

9. The US military and NASA can move out too ... see how they do then (nt)

[lindysalsagal]

11. Riiiiight.

[Diamond_Dog]

14. I agree, lindysalsagal. -nt

[peppertree]

25. But then, of course, they'd become just another Latin American narco-state we'd have to worry about

To say nothing of the inevitable debt crisis, that would probably come sooner rather than later.

And who would they run to for a bailout?

[Progressive Jones]

42. Yep. The Florida/Georgia border region would become the site of an insane, endless drug war. nt

[Walleye]

5. Buh-bye. Don't come crying that you want back in when you can't make it work

[NoRethugFriends]

8. Why would it not work.

They don't give a shit about worker safety, so it's still a win for them.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Better yet, just withdraw from the USA.

[bullwinkle428]

12. DeSantis started with the hand gestures. Now, he's mimicking Chump's approach

to the Vietnam War - i.e., "I CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE."

[ChoppinBroccoli]

15. So If States Can Just "Opt Out" Of Federal Laws...........

............couldn't some State (or STATES, for that matter) simply declare that they're "opting out" of the Second Amendment and just ban all guns? Same concept.

Oh, and by the way, remember THIS when Republicans tell you how much they love the Constitution. They're actively trying to just not follow the parts of it they don't like.

[MichMan]

18. Many states passed legal marijuana even though it is still illegal under federal law

[marie999]

49. But it is still a federal crime.

If the feds want to arrest a specific person for buying or selling it they can. And he can say he is dropping OSHA but that doesn't s mean businesses are not covered by OSHA.

[former9thward]

21. Federal OSHA law allows states to opt out

22 states, including CA, have done so. Their programs must meet the federal regulations but the state does the enforcement.

[monkeyman1]

28. floriduh get's hit with a bad hurricane, can we op-out helping them ?

[former9thward]

30. If by "we" you mean the Biden administration, the answer is yes.

Biden does not have to give an emergency disaster proclamation. That is required before any federal money can be spent. I suspect it would be a political disaster for him to take such a position but he could do it.

[monkeyman1]

32. ya',I know, deathsentence just piss's me off ! got kid's that live in that state !

[azureblue]

34. also

Stop sending federal money to projects in FL if they do not comply with OSHA standards and inspection. Fl wants the federal money, then they have to dance to the federal tune.

And yes, FEMA help can be withheld until the state complies. Likewise interstate highway construction money, money for airports, etc.

[monkeyman1]

40. thank's for mental adjustment ! everybody need's that once in awhile !

[Bobstandard]

27. More coup. n/t

[JohnnyRingo]

35. What else do they want out of?

We know they aren't hot on the Constitution aside from the 2nd amendment, and they don't seem to favor democracy, but what else? Does Florida think the US is an elective membership?

Been there, done that.

[Baked Potato]

36. Vaccination for/against is the gift that keeps on dividing.

The 1% is laughing all the way around the world at how the 99% keeps on fighting each other. Keeps everyone occupied while they consolidate power.

[PSPS]

38. Sure, but they can't avoid OSHA regulations. Just more MAGA posturing for his '24 run.

[Bristlecone]

39. "Safety glasses are overreach!," shouts 1-eyed Florida man.

[Takket]

41. let me translate this...........

"we'll use the vaccination requirement as an excuse to basically make it legal for employers to work their employees to death."

[Traildogbob]

44. How about

Zero federal dollars for Florida & Texas ever again for, hurricanes, fire and flooding. Refuse the laws, we refuse the aid.

[marie999]

50. That would hurt many poor people not the governors.

[Traildogbob]

51. And the governors

Are really pampering the poor people.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

46. Florida and Texas are trying to establish the ultimate escape havens for businesses...

to avoid the costs of federal laws and regulations. That environment attracts right-wing companies and employees from all around the USA to move there, and it makes liberal-oriented firms and workers want to move away.

In other words, they're trying to create 100% Republican controlled and populated states that are 100% business friendly. Not a place I would want to work or live.

Regarding OSHA, many company's insurance carriers may have a word to two on that subject, although I believe Federal law requires any state-sponsored agency to meet or exceed OSHA regulations and standards.

However, worker safety agencies in right-wing states will be extremely lax with regulation enforcement and are very susceptible to corruption.

KY

[DFW]

54. It won't work with us

We are in Texas for the simple reason that one of the co-founders is from Texas. The other is from Boston, but doesn't like the cold, so they decided on Dallas. This was some 40 years ago anyway. We require vaccination (medical exceptions recognized). Everyone, top brass to visitors, is checked for temperature every time they enter the Dallas office. Anyone picking up Covid elsewhere gets paid leave until they get back to where they can work.

We are over 500 people worldwide, close to 500 in Dallas alone. We are over 90% Democrats, mostly long-term or native-born Texans, though Africa, Australia, South America and Europe are also represented. Maybe a quarter of our ethnic Mexicans were actually born in Mexico, and we never once entertained the idea of moving elsewhere. If times get difficult, the top earners--ALL of us--go down to a yearly salary of $1 for the duration instead of firing loyal people who depend on us for their jobs and health insurance. Texas Republicans may hate that, but they won't get rid of us easily.

[live love laugh]

48. WTF

[mahatmakanejeeves]

53. I had a thread in the Economy group a few days back that went into OSHA and state plans.

Wed Oct 20, 2021: OSHA, citing Covid failures, moves to strip three states of workplace safety authority.

What is an OSHA-Approved State Plan?

Mon Sep 13, 2021: Are public employees covered by OSHA? It depends.

Mon Sep 13, 2021: Are public employees covered by OSHA? It depends.

On Monday, DeSantis said that any cities or counties in Florida that require public government employees to get vaccinated to keep their jobs will be charged $5,000 for every single violation, with violators at risk of paying millions of dollars in fines.

https://www.google.com/search?q=does+osha+cover+state+employees

Are public employees covered by OSHA?

State and Local Government Workers
Workers at state and local government agencies are not covered by Federal OSHA, but have OSH Act protections if they work in those states that have an OSHA-approved state program.

Federal Government Workers
OSHA's protection applies to all federal agencies.

State Plan Frequently Asked Questions

What is an OSHA-Approved State Plan?

OSHA Coverage

The Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act covers most private sector employers and their workers, in addition to some state and local government employers and their workers in the 50 states and certain territories and jurisdictions under federal authority. Those jurisdictions include the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, Wake Island, Johnston Island, and the Outer Continental Shelf Lands as defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act.

Private Sector Workers

OSHA covers most private sector employers and workers in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the other United States (U.S.) jurisdictions – either directly through OSHA or through an OSHA-approved State Plan. State Plans are OSHA-approved job safety and health programs operated by individual states rather than federal OSHA. Section 18 of the OSH Act encourages states to develop and operate their own job safety and health programs and precludes state enforcement of OSHA standards unless the state has an OSHA-approved State Plan.

OSHA approves and monitors all State Plans and provides as much as 50 percent of the funding for each program. State-run safety and health programs must be at least as effective (ALAE) as the federal OSHA program. OSHA provides coverage to certain workers specifically excluded from a State Plan (for example, those in some states who work in maritime industries or on military bases). To find the contact information of the OSHA or State Plan office nearest to you, call 1-800-321-OSHA or go to www.osha.gov.

The following 22 states or territories have OSHA-approved State Plans that cover both private and state and local government workers:

• Alaska
• Arizona
• California
• Hawaii
• Indiana
• Iowa
• Kentucky
• Maryland
• Michigan
• Minnesota
• Nevada
• New Mexico
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Puerto Rico
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• Utah
• Vermont
• Virginia
• Washington
• Wyoming

State and Local Government Workers

Workers at state and local government agencies are not covered by OSHA, but have OSH Act protections if they work in states that have an OSHA-approved State Plan. OSHA rules also permit states and territories to develop plans that cover state and local government workers only. In these cases, private sector workers and employers remain under federal OSHA jurisdiction.

Five additional states and one U.S. territory (Virgin Islands) have OSHA-approved State Plans that cover state and local government workers only:

• Connecticut
• Illinois
• Maine
• New Jersey
• New York
• Virgin Islands

Next question, is Florida a state-plan state?

OSHA State Plans

No. Florida is a federal OSHA state. Workers at state and local government agencies are not covered by Federal OSHA.

All About OSHA

[Sympthsical]

55. Saved me some typing there

Excellent posts, btw.

I'm an HR type, and yep, California has its own state program just as Florida is proposing.

However, here it's the opposite. Cal/OSHA does not play with Covid safety regulations. If they find you, they will fine you. Some of those fines can run into the tens of thousands of dollars.

As a result, my company does not mess around. It literally rearranged a production warehouse to be compliant with distancing and safety very early on in the pandemic.

They have a website listing fines I like to look at every once in awhile, just to see which of my compatriots are having bad weeks.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/COVID19citations.html

[madville]

61. Excellent info, we are exempt from OSHA at my job

I work for a municipal city government with about 1000 employees and we have no vaccine mandate and there is no plan for one as far as I know. I’m vaccinated of course but I don’t know if they’ll mandate it on their own since we aren’t under OSHA’s umbrella.

[fescuerescue]

56. How is that legal? OSHA is mandatory from a Federal level

Are they looking at some immoral loophole?

[onenote]

57. Please read one of the many posts explaining how federal law allows states to opt out of OSHA.

[Tommymac]

59. Well, to be fair, in 40 or 50 years parts of FLA will probably be largely underwater.

The rest is just political posturing.

[librechik]

63. once a slaveowner society -- but you can't just wish it back

I'm pretty scared of these lunatics who think democrats are cheating them out of what's owed them and giving it all to black/poor/undeserving folks.

Where do you even start? I hope I can just avoid them. No offense, but TG I don't live in FL

[IcyPeas]

65. Madison Cawthorn wants to gut OSHA he said

Link to tweet