Alec Baldwin Didn't Know Prop Gun Was Loaded With Live Rounds: Sheriff

[babylonsister]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alec-baldwin-didnt-know-prop-gun-that-killed-halyna-hutchins-was-loaded-with-live-rounds-sheriff-says?ref=home

Alec Baldwin Didn’t Know Prop Gun Was Loaded With Live Rounds: Sheriff
MYSTERY DEEPENS
Blake Montgomery
Reporter/Editor
Published Oct. 22, 2021 10:09PM ET

Alec Baldwin had no idea the prop gun he fired on Thursday was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed Friday. Baldwin shot and killed the director of photography for his film Rust, Halyna Hutchins, in what he later called a “tragic accident.” The search warrant states that an assistant director handed Baldwin the gun and informed the actor the prop was safe to use. In reality, the firearm held live bullets, though the assistant director also did not know, police wrote in the affidavit. Who loaded the live round into the gun has not been disclosed. The New York Post reported that the prop master in charge of the gun was a non-union worker brought in to fill the position of a prop master who had walked off the set.

[exboyfil]

1. Why are live bullets on the set?

I can see something being lodged in the barrel of a gun holding a blank (Brandon Lee's death), but an actual bullet?

[SheilaAnn]

2. I was just about to type the same question. Why would live bullets even be on this or any set? n/

[targetpractice]

4. In film production... A "live round" also means a blank...

... which are also very dangerous at close range.

I've watched a few prop masters and armorers on TV the last couple of days, and they insisted there is ZERO reason actual bullets should be on a film set. They went on to claim that actors use fake guns until the moment a scene is shot with a real gun using blanks.

Josh Marshall, TPM, also reported that most movies these days add gun firing effects in post production using CGI... Blanks are used by low budget productions.

[FBaggins]

21. That would make Baldwin culpable

Yes - blanks can still be deadly at close range. But pulling the trigger at such a range - and when it isn’t even part of the scene (?) is no longer an accident.

I prefer to assume that “live” means just what it seems to. And that the gun was pointed at the camera with people behind it.

[Wingus Dingus]

27. The gun wasn't even supposed to have blanks in it--it wasn't supposed to

be loaded at all, with anything. They called out "cold gun" so everyone knew nothing would come out of it. He drew it out of the holster once and nothing happened as was intended, and then did it again--and it sounds like an ACTUAL BULLET came out the second time. Not a blank, a bullet, is what's being reported. That's crazy. He would have had no reason to anticipate that. Real bullets aren't used on sets at all, from what I've read.

[FBaggins]

31. Then he does share culpability

Whether you call out “cold gun” or swear on your mother’s grave that it’s empty. If it’s a real gun then I’m checking when you hand it to me.

Doesn’t mean that it wasn’t an accident - but that’s incredible irresponsible. And it cost a life.

[Wingus Dingus]

34. At worst, he would have accidentally discharged a blank, and there was no one in range

of that, from what I understand. They'd had several misfirings of blanks previously. Strictly speaking, he can be faulted for not realizing an actual bullet was inside the chamber, but that would be so far outside the realm of possibility on a movie set, it probably would not have occurred to him or the directors, at all. That's why I feel terrible for him (and of course, the people who were killed or injured)--what a horrible shock.

[FBaggins]

36. You seem to be imagining a modern semiautomatic

If there were four blanks at the top of a magazine and somehow the 5th round was live ammo… it couldn’t be at all his fault. If you pulled the trigger once and nothing happened… the second pull isn’t likely to do anything either

But the movie is set in the 1880’s. You can see whether there are rounds in an 1880s revolver. And one empty chamber doesn’t mean that you aren’t playing Russian roulette

[Wingus Dingus]

37. No, I'm saying he didn't look. I'm not saying he's completely not at fault.

However, he's in an industry that just doesn't use real actual bullets, because there's no intention, anywhere, ever, of anyone actually being shot. It's not a true weapon situation, even if there are real weapons used. So the guns, while still dangerous to a degree even as props, are maybe not handled with the expectation of firing actual bullets. They're expecting blanks, and all the dangers that come with blanks.

Should they be handled as though they contain bullets? Obviously yes. If other actors and film professionals condemn him for carelessness, then I will judge him accordingly. They know that culture best. I'll let the law and the movie industry weigh in on how much culpability he had.

[Polybius]

42. He might not no how to check

Baldwin is extremely liberal, guns being no exception. It wouldn't surprise me if he's never handled a real gun.

[LisaL]

44. On a movie set, gun was supposed to be checked by a professional.

Before being given to Baldwin, Baldwin was told the gun was cold, which means not even blanks were supposed to be in it.
An actor might not even know how to check a gun.

[gldstwmn]

54. That is how I'm reading it as well. The prop gun discharged an actual bullet.

[Zeitghost]

23. They were actual live rounds.

They were actual live rounds. The wadding on a blank, while dangerous up close will not penetrate one person completely and end up lodged in another.

[targetpractice]

25. Thanks... Haven't read the detail of a bullet being recovered from the director. n/t

[Polly Hennessey]

17. Same question.

[dalton99a]

3. The armorer:

Hannah Reed was reportedly the woman responsible for handling weapons on the set of Alec Baldwin’s “Rust.”

[durablend]

5. Trumper?

I hate to jump on the tinfoil bandwagon, but.....

[jimfields33]

6. Can't be a trumpers, she is wearing a mask.

Sorta sarc.

[OneBro]

9. Same thought.

[MagickMuffin]

19. But they are probably required to wear masks

Not sure if they required vaccines.

[sarisataka]

50. Obviously...

She's a gun-humper.

No real Democrat knows anything about guns.

[LeftInTX]

30. Can't jump to any conclusions because it's a movie set

[Deep State Witch]

32. Was She the IATSE Person?

Was she the IATSE person, or the scab that was hired after the union members walked off the set due to poor safety conditions?

[malaise]

7. The question is

Who knew and why were they there?

[Tomconroy]

8. I think the Post's stuff about the armorer being recently

Brought in is inaccurate. She apparently posted about the movie last spring. She is the daughter of a long time movie armorer. I would be surprised a bit if she wasn't in a union.

[marie999]

10. Anyone handed a weapon is responsible for it.

The first thing you do when handed a weapon is check it to see if it is loaded and check the weapon itself to make sure the barrel is clean among other things. If you are handed a weapon and told it is loaded with blanks you check that out. Weapons are made to kill. Don't hold one if you don't know what you are doing. Maybe what they need to do when making a movie where people will be holding weapons is make sure they are trained in the use of them.

[OldBaldy1701E]

13. Every film I was in that had firearms in it

Had training classes for everyone in the production that would be on set, since we were all going to be around them. I guess this is the difference between massive Hollywood-style productions and something a little more local. Hell, we did this in one film even though we only carried them in holsters. We did not even draw them, they were basically costume pieces and were 'prop' guns. I also do not want to be a tin-foil hat wearer, but Baldwin was a very outspoken critic of the orange gibbon and he ridiculed him on SNL many times. It just comes off as very suspicious. Of course, the film crew walked off of the set earlier that day, so rather than stop production they grabbed some people to fill the void and marched on. But it still smells, as far as I am concerned.

[Zeitghost]

26. Being a revolver

It would have been loaded with dummy rounds to look real, not blanks (which can easily be identified by the lack of a projectile). Alec was told it was "cold", as in not loaded with a round that could be fired like a blank or an actual live cartridge.

I don't believe the armorer was part of the crew who walked off, which was reported to be camera operators.

IMO, this falls squarely on the armorer and possibly whoever would be in charge of overseeing their work on the production.

[Deep State Witch]

38. Yeah

I was wondering that, too.

[Devil Child]

15. This is the correct answer

Tragic case with shared culpability.

[Irish_Dem]

16. It appears at least three people did not check the gun for live rounds:

The armorer, the assistant director, Alec Baldwin.

[stopdiggin]

40. there is absolutely no reason for 'live' rounds

to be on the set period. In or out of any kind of weapon. You can also go on to assign additional responsibility or culpability to people that 'handled without inspecting' ... But, really ... How does a real bullet end up in a gun on a movie set?

[Irish_Dem]

41. Yes there should not be live rounds on a movie set.

But from my understanding you are still supposed to inspect the gun....

[stopdiggin]

45. I can't disagree

(although, I can understand developing a mindset where these are regarded as props and not as 'real' guns. but, further in this string there are claims that there is 'safety training' involved for anyone even handling prop guns. so - your point still stands.)

[Irish_Dem]

46. Yes there is supposed to be safety training at the beginning of filming.

And a gun expert on the set is supposed to be checking the guns for safety issues.

ETA: I think the pages and pages of gun safety rules pertaining to movie sets is designed to offset the mindset that you describe.
It is easy to think of the prop guns as harmless.

[CrispyQ]

11. Why did he point the gun at anyone other than the actor he was going to "shoot?"

Isn't that the first rule of guns—only point at what you're going to shoot. ???

[Tetrachloride]

12. The direction of the gun is decided by

the director, the cinematographer and the actor.

From take to take, one of those 3 makes the ultimate decision.

So, the realm of possibilities includes pointing toward the audience (at which the deceased may have been)

[andym]

20. Shooting audience is iconic in Westerns

Most famous scene from "The Great Train Robbery" (1903):

[Irish_Dem]

14. Yes the experts are saying you should never point a gun at a person on a movie set.

They have ways to get the film to look like the gun is pointing at a person, but it is off center in real life.

[RandomNumbers]

28. Wouldn't a live round cause a bigger kick than expected?

If someone is thinking they are essentially holding a toy gun, then they aren't exerting the needed control for the recoil. Assuming Baldwin isn't that experienced with guns in the first place (I wouldn't know), and not anticipating the recoil, means the bullet trajectory could be much different than what he was "aiming" for.

[FakeNoose]

18. It would have been perfectly fine to use an empty gun

... and add the sound effect of the gun firing later in the sound editing room. This is actually done all the time and most of us movie-goers don't even know the difference.

After the tragic death of Brandon Lee many years ago, I think this became a regular safety precaution. Really there's no reason to fire an actual gun (with blanks or anything else) on a movie set.

Actors can act like it's the real thing, am I right?

[RandomNumbers]

29. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that cinematic technology

can essentially photoshop the gun in later anyway.

So, no need for a real gun or any gun at all. Could be a pink water pistol just so the actor can have something in his or her hand.

[Zeitghost]

33. It's definitely possible

But it's still very expensive. A low budget western isn't going to have the kind of budget to do a lot of CGI.

[stopdiggin]

43. and this may be a larger part of the 'answer'

than many are ascribing. Were there things going on on this 'set' that didn't even come close to protocol or industry standard? Certainly something was going on.

[Irish_Dem]

48. I agree, they were on a tight budget and didn't want to pay for special effects.

Cheaper just to use a prop gun.

[targetpractice]

22. More detail from Variety...

‘Rust’ Production Was Chaotic Prior to Fatal Prop Gun Accident, Producers Launch Internal Safety Review

As the industry grapples with the tragic on-set death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a picture is emerging of a low-budget film set that was already chaotic before the fatal accident occurred.

Several IATSE crew members on the New Mexico set of the Western “Rust,” where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed Thursday by a prop gun shot by Alec Baldwin, reportedly quit the production because they felt producers were not following safety guidelines, according to numerous reports.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-crew-members-safety-issues-alec-baldwin-1235095828/

[ananda]

24. Would you say that set was a tad dysfunctional?

And very badly managed....

I guess it's all about money and disgruntled union workers.

[ForgedCrank]

35. Seriously though, who

among us thought Baldwin murdered someone on purpose?
What a terrible accident, and I feel really bad for the guy. Just imagine what he is going through right now.
Being a high profile personality, now he has to endure what few others would, and it is coming from the hate mongers on the right who revel in the misfortune of their opponents.
I find it absolutely disgusting to celebrate human tragedy.

[Deep State Witch]

39. While He Should have checked

While Alec Baldwin should have checked the weapon, there are probably a couple of reasons why that didn't happen:
1. He's probably not familiar with firearms;
2. He trusted the crew to have put the right ammo into the gun;
3. The director was really rushing things and he just didn't have the time to check it;
4. He was probably trying to keep the lines and blocking in his head and, and not thinking about it.

[LisaL]

47. The gun was supposed to have been empty.

So no ammo should have been put in it. The question is, who put the ammo in it and why?

[Irish_Dem]

49. There are reports that some of the crew were doing target practice with the guns.

And using live ammo.

Someone here on DU suggested that target practice was in response to the guns misfiring earlier in the week and they were trying to determine if it was the gun or the blanks causing the problem.

[stopdiggin]

51. thanks. at least that is somewhat plausible.

And far better than 'conspiracy' crap. Somebody, somewhere - made a really, really tragic mistake. And it's no doubt grinding their soul at this moment.

[Irish_Dem]

52. A good detective considers all theories and rules them in or out as the evidence comes in.

But yes I agree, the data is pointing to a mistake, actually there would have to be a series of mistakes for this accident to occur.

Yes. I would think that the persons responsible are having some soul crushing moments right now.

[gldstwmn]

53. Why on earth were there actual bullets in that gun?

[taxi]

55. Maybe it's time to take a page from the republican playbook - [film] industry should be in control

It is possible for the film industry to make rules beyond how it uses or displays weapons in films. This can happen immediately.
The time is long past due - the industry needs to look within itself regulating regarding its role. Changing the gun laws is far too high to set the bar.