Alec Baldwin was given loaded weapon and told it was a 'cold gun', court records show

[usaf-vet]

The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

As a film crew and actors, including Baldwin, in Western costumes prepared to rehearse a scene inside a wooden, chapel-like building on a desert movie ranch, assistant director Dave Halls stepped outside and grabbed a prop gun from three laid out on a cart.

He walked back in and handed it to Baldwin, the film’s star, assuring him it was safe to use because it didn’t have live ammunition.

“Cold gun,” Halls yelled. But it was not what movie workers term a safe, “cold”, weapon.

When Baldwin fired the gun, the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, was shot in the chest. The director, Joel Souza, who was standing behind her, was wounded, the records show.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/oct/22/alec-baldwin-film-shooting-halyna-hutchins

[OnDoutside]

1. The questions I have are

1 How the hell could you load a prop gun with a live bullet ?
2 How could that be accidental ?
3 How is it that Ms Hutchins was shot and not an actor in the scene ?

[padah513]

10. Number 3 is what I'd like to know

Was she in the scene? If not, why was a gun fired in her direction?

[femmedem]

13. Perhaps they wanted a shot of the gun's barrel as it was being fired. n/t

[wackadoo wabbit]

57. Then why shoot it in the direction of anyone?

Why not shoot it into a mattress?

[femmedem]

67. Someone would have had had to operate the camera it was aiming at.

But sometimes the film crew will have a protective clear barrier between them and the gun.

[NutmegYankee]

20. Many Western scenes are face on with actor and gun

That was probably the scene - actor with gun firing into the camera. The camera operator and director would be standing right behind the camera.

[Native]

27. According to the article, that is exactly what happened.

[Polybius]

24. #3 is easy

He probably didn't want to point it at the actor, and it was off to the side a bit. Prop guns that fire blanks are not pointed directly at the target (for reasons like this). Unfortunately, he likely didn't see that Hutchins was in the gun's line of fire.

[Ms. Toad]

26. Click through to the article.

#1 and #3 are answered in the article.

[Fullduplexxx]

2. Sounds like some magat with a grudge against Baldwin's characterization

Of trump

[bucolic_frolic]

12. My thoughts went there too

but that's for authorities to establish. Let's not get ahead of a false narrative about fake guns that are safe.

[durablend]

22. But if that *is* true will that ever come out?

[SoCalDavidS]

23. In This Shithole Country?

I'd say 30/70 it would come out.

[sarisataka]

30. This unknown magat

Was certainly leaving a lot to chance and hoped for many coincidences for their plan to work

[DENVERPOPS]

33. Or maybe

Last edited Sat Oct 23, 2021, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

some of the safety people who walked out previously, for lack of safety procedures, decided to make a point...????????

I see no reason that a live round should have been anywhere on the movie set. Where did it come from?

My bet is either your speculation, or mine

Also, watch the expert demonstrate (on Rachel), that a prop gun will not even allow a live round to be inserted........
Why was a real gun even being used????????????

At any rate, my heart goes out to Baldwin who will live with this the rest of his life.......

Most of all........someone knowingly, and intentionally, put a live round in a prop weapon.

[wackadoo wabbit]

59. Oh god, *that's* why there's so much love and excusing of Baldwin here

I was wondering what was going on with that.

The fact that this man shot at someone without checking the gun first. And the fact that he was the producer of a film that was so unsafe that the union employees complained and then walked off the set and/or were fired. And the fact that the armorer, who was ultimately in charge of said gun, whom he, as producer, hired, was non-union and was, in fact, probably hired because of nepotism. Yeah, none of these facts matter.

[Fullduplexxx]

63. Now your getting it

[mikeysnot]

3. Yep....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15976112

[usaf-vet]

4. In the world I grew up in my dad never owned a gun and his dad never owned a gun.

I own guns pistols, shotguns, and long guns.

In the world of guns that I live in, I was taught.

1. YOU are responsible for always making sure the gun is safe. Unload, has a clear chamber, and/or the safety is on.

2. Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire and you KNOW your target.

3. Never point any gun at another living thing especially a person. Keep the barrel point down to the ground.

And finally, if there are kids around keep all guns in a gun safe.

If the story is correct sadly basic gun safety rules were not followed.

[LakeArenal]

7. Actors might not be raised like you.

A prop is a prop. They expect a prop.
Why would a gun on the set be loaded?

To actors guns are always toys.

[usaf-vet]

9. "To actors guns are always toys". You hit the target with that statement.

Sadly lots of kids are killed by perceived "toy" guns.

[LakeArenal]

19. Yes. But that isn't the case here

[stopdiggin]

11. don't know much about actors, or movies

but 'live ammunition' - in this context? My head just explodes.

[Wingus Dingus]

16. Yes--I'm surprised at how many people are accusing him

of not following the universal gun handling rules that are followed in 99 percent of gun use situations--but those are weapons being used as weapons. This is a prop situation in an industry and culture that has its own handling and safety standards, which appear to be based on the expectations and dangers of firing blanks. Perhaps he was careless and culpable related to the possibility of blanks in the gun, according to FILM INDUSTRY standards. But why on earth would anyone in charge of that production think or expect a real bullet might be in there? Edit to add: A lot of people really hate Alec Baldwin, I've come to find out. Gun nuts appear to hate him, obviously MAGA hates him, who else?

[NutmegYankee]

46. That really is bizarre.

A face on shot facing camera is a classic cinematic technique. Gun rules apply when using firearms for shooting. An actor with a prop expects a prop.

[Deep State Witch]

17. I Wouldn't Go That Far

They're not "toys" to play around with. They are props. You are handed one, you do your thing with it, and you hand it back. Ever since Jon-Erik Hexum died because he was goofing around with a gun loaded with blanks, I would imagine that actors have been trained not to do stuff like that.

[stopdiggin]

8. why would live ammunition be in use

on a movie set? (granted I know nothing about making movies). But this seems such an egregious error. A 'loaded' weapon - just laying around out on a table? Live ammo? So outrageous it begs belief.

and, yes - every tenet you outlined is fundamental and basic instruction.

[JohnSJ]

15. Always treat a gun as though it was loaded

[Mr.Bill]

31. If Hollywood followed all those rules,

a lot of movies would be impossible to make.

[DENVERPOPS]

37. Anytime

anyone hands me a firearm, the first thing I do is check the gun for it being loaded, always pointed down at the ground.......

[Wingus Dingus]

48. Right, but your mindset is "firearm". Not "prop gun with blank inside".

Especially not "prop gun with blank inside being handled and checked by professionals whom this is all they do for a living, and I've done this a zillion times before and no bullet ever came out because why would there be an actual bullet in this prop gun".

[USALiberal]

5. I'm sure experts are working on it!!! Nt

[in2herbs]

6. What are live rounds doing on any movie/tv production set??

[JohnSJ]

14. +++

[ColinC]

18. Do we simply not have the technology to have prop guns incapable of firing live rounds

I knew a film crew that used green slabs of paper for their guns. The special effects made them look no different than if they actually had guns

[Happy Hoosier]

38. Mostly?

I actually dress as Indiana Jones sometimes… i have have a gun that looks very realistic, but is incapable of firing actual rounds.

And I do have a couple prop guns that are built with real guns, buy the cylinders have been modified to allow only blanks to fit.

My guess is that they are more expensive to rent.

[Tarc]

58. I posted this in another thread

"When rehearsing, actors have dummy guns, there's no firing mechanism at all. Right before the cameras roll, a prop master comes out and swaps them for "live" guns; they can "fire", but it is just blanks. As soon as "cut!" is called, the guns are gathered and stored. "



Here, this is the first I've heard of the assistant director story. He should NOT have been handling the guns, the prop master should not have allowed the guns to be handled without his direct supervision. And honestly, Baldwin should not have accepted it from the ass't dir.

[Groundhawg]

21. I feel sorry for Baldwin but it is pure negligence to not check a gun in your hands yourself.

No matter what professional said he did beforehand.

[Mr.Bill]

32. Then every actor would have to be trained

to do that. What if you are filming a scene with a five year old child picking up a gun?

[Happy Hoosier]

39. Adults can and should be trained...

I was once on a project where I had to be around a lot of guns, but not actually use one or even touch one myself. I was required to rake a 4 long day gun course. Actors can do a half-hour long training session on how to ensure the prop guns are safe.

[Mr.Bill]

41. In a half hour,

you can train any adult how to check every type of gun to see if it is loaded?

The fact is, the movie industry relies on highly trained professionals to do this, and that's who fucked up here.

That's how the whole world works. People specialize in what they do for a living. They hire experts for other things. That's why the movie industry has stunt people. Actors are quite often not experts in what their character is doing.

[Happy Hoosier]

43. You can train them on the type of weapon they will use.

Revolvers are all quite similar, as are semiautos.

Seriously… not that complicated.

[LisaL]

42. Apparently there was no such thing done before this movie.

"Only minimal COVID-19 precautions were taken even though crew and cast members often worked in small enclosed spaces on the ranch, the crew member who spoke to the AP said. He said he never witnessed any formal orientation about weapons used on set, which normally would take place before filming begins."

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-was-told-gun-was-cold-before-movie-set-shooting/

[Happy Hoosier]

44. Safety doesn't seem to have been a priority. NT

[Mr.Bill]

55. Lots of things were going wrong on that set.

They even said there had been several accidental firearms discharges. That's why the entire union crew resigned that morning. The two people shot were the only ones that stayed. Unions don't like people who do that. The plot thickens, I suppose.

[Groundhawg]

54. Then they should be trained.

[Azathoth]

52. Doesn't work that way when shooting a movie

They're working long days, they have to film multiple takes of each scene, usually from different angles. Actor is handed a gun, they do the take, gun gets handed back and reset for next take, everything gets moved around, people giving directions and controlled chaos, gun is handed to actor again, rinse repeat maybe a couple dozen times. The gun is just another prop in a complicated assembly line type of operation. Even if the actor did take the time to personally check the firearm every time it was handed to him, eventually there'd come a point where they were trying to squeeze one more take in at the end of a long day and he'd forget.

It's just not an environment where proper gun safety is going to be practiced rigorously.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

25. Stepped outside and grabbed a gun from a cart?!

Was the cart being constantly monitored by a crew member? If not, that's just so careless.

The gun should've been inspected immediately before the scene anyway.

[LiberalFighter]

28. Didn't they have scabs on site? Not likely knowing the equipment.

[Mr.Bill]

35. That's possible,

but I'm not ready to make the leap that if someone doesn't belong to a union, they don't know what they are doing. There are plenty of people in the world who are experts at their occupation who don't belong to a union.

[LiberalFighter]

45. True. But the scabs just started recently and possible didn't have their bearing yet.

[wackadoo wabbit]

60. Yes, the armorer at the time of the shooting was a scab and was probably hired because of nepotism

She was the 24-year-old step-daughter of a famous armorer and had worked on only one other film in her life

[sarisataka]

29. It sounds like this set

Was a complete charlie-foxtrot.

[Initech]

34. The fuckheads are already calling for his arrest.

I can't even...

[Mr.Bill]

36. Imagine what they would be saying

if it was Ted Nugent who pulled the trigger.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

40. I sure

I sure hope they lock up Dick Cheney!

[Wingus Dingus]

47. Dick Cheney knew he had a lethal weapon loaded with shot in it when he pulled the trigger.

So, yeah.

[Kaleva]

56. Every gun is to be treated as it's loaded.

Lots of tragedy could be avoided if everyone who has a gun in their possession follows that very simple rule

[gldstwmn]

64. Well that and we stop allowing crazy people to have them.

Gun safety is lost on psychotics.

[Kaleva]

66. I'm fine with that.

[Azathoth]

49. Why would real bullets be anywhere near a movie set?

Live ammo shouldn't even be in the same location, never mind mixed up with blanks and loaded in prop guns.

There's no excuse for this.

[Wingus Dingus]

50. It's like a movie being filmed where an actor takes a fake cyanide capsule for a suicide scene,

and someone brings in a bottle of REAL cyanide capsules onto the set. Either completely idiotic, or malice.

[Azathoth]

53. This isn't the first time I've heard stuff like this either

Someone posted an article recently where a prop guy on another movie was talking about doing a night shoot on location in some dark forest and having to use a flashlight to sort through the live ammo and blanks that were apparently all mixed together in a bag.

This is Keystone Cops levels of criminal incompetence.

[taxi]

51. The insurance companies can easily and immediately reduce risks

Mandating that a life insurance policy be purchased for all persons in any capacity at sets with any firearms of any type, from plastic replicas to the real thing, might make firearms in film a thing of the past by the prohibitive costs alone. The conditions upon which any device resembling a firearm are allowed on set could easily be written, which could create administrative hurdles along with the increased policy costs.

[calimary]

61. Oh God! All day I've been thinking about Jon-Erik Hexum

Before Brandon Lee. I remember covering both of these, back when I was still working.

https://ew.com/article/1994/10/14/jon-erik-hexums-fatal-joke/

Photos here.
https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/prop-gun-deaths-haunt-hollywood-young-stars-shot-on-set/

[Straw Man]

62. A "prop gun" is not capable for firing anything.

They are used on movie sets, as are real guns firing blanks.

There are also replica guns that are capable of firing only blanks. I foresee a future in which these are the only kind allowed to be used on movie sets.

[SYFROYH]

65. There's a lot about this case that doesn't make sense.

I'm waiting until investigations are completed before making my judgments.

Given that accidents with prop guns (often due to negligence or ignorance) are well known in the film industry, it amazes me that an actor or director would allow a prop gun trigger to be pulled with the barrel facing anything living.