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brooklynite

(94,489 posts)
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:34 AM Oct 2021

You're not 'fully vaccinated.' You never will be.

Washington Post

When retired Gen. Colin Powell’s family announced his death Monday in a brief Facebook post, they said that the cause was “complications from Covid 19” despite being “fully vaccinated.” The former secretary of state, who was 84, had also been undergoing treatment for multiple myeloma. That kind of cancer causes marked impairments of the immune system, rendering it capable of producing only one type of antibody. In July, a study of vaccinated people with multiple myeloma found that only 45 percent had immune responses that would be “adequate” to protect them against covid. A booster dose is recommended for people with blood cancers, but no amount of vaccination can make up for an immune system that can’t fight back. To the medical community, it was no surprise that Powell could develop a severe, even fatal case of covid-19.

Much of the discussion surrounding his death, however, suggested otherwise, as if this was a case of some irregularity or failure of the vaccines. That specific phrase — “fully vaccinated” — stood out to me especially, as it featured prominently in most news coverage. It implied that Powell should have been completely protected; that he shouldn’t have been able to die from covid-19. The use of “fully vaccinated” is not unique to Powell, either, though the coverage of his death has highlighted that the term is inappropriate in many cases, primarily because there is no consensus on what it means. As we’ve seen throughout this pandemic, precision of language and transparency in delineating the known and the unknown are key to any effective public health response. A sense of false confidence — or of exaggerated risk — can permanently damage the credibility that is so critical to the success of the coronavirus vaccination campaign and of future ones.

At the moment, the central debate among immunologists and infectious-disease experts — in the United States, at least — pertains to booster doses. It has become clear that some people will benefit from additional shots (third doses of the mRNA vaccines and second doses of Johnson & Johnson) and equally clear that others may not. The challenge is in determining where to draw that line. Most of us fall into a gray area between the 21-year-old Olympic decathlete in no need of more doses and the 90-year-old with emphysema who sings in an unvaccinated choir and would quite benefit from boosting.

All of this boils down to, essentially, an ongoing attempt to define “fully vaccinated.” Who is “fully vaccinated” against covid-19, and for how long? The honest answer is that the target is moving before our eyes.

Until 2021, “fully vaccinated” was not a standard phrase, any more than “fully married” or “fully graduated from college.” Typically a person is considered “vaccinated” or “unvaccinated.” Technical distinctions might be used clinically to describe gray areas — a young child or a puppy, say, between doses of measles or rabies vaccines, may be considered “partially vaccinated” for purposes of logistical communications between doctors. But such a designation would not imply that the child or puppy is protected.


10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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You're not 'fully vaccinated.' You never will be. (Original Post) brooklynite Oct 2021 OP
Post removed Post removed Oct 2021 #1
Funny Ha Ha, Or Just Funny Lookin'? The Magistrate Oct 2021 #3
That's not actually correct. However, you can never be "fully protected." MineralMan Oct 2021 #2
Yep. LisaL Oct 2021 #4
Or three doses. MineralMan Oct 2021 #5
You are considered fully vaccinated after two doses. LisaL Oct 2021 #6
Concerning Coverage Of The Death Of Gen. Powell, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2021 #7
The vaccines aren't 100% effective even for the most otherwise healthy people mucifer Oct 2021 #8
This is why I always wear a mask when I food shop. It is required but I would do it anyway. I'm CTyankee Oct 2021 #9
I Can't Agree With The Concept ProfessorGAC Oct 2021 #10

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
2. That's not actually correct. However, you can never be "fully protected."
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:43 AM
Oct 2021

If you have received the recommended series of any vaccine, you are "fully vaccinated." However, that has never meant that you are "fully protected." Vaccination simply means receiving the recommended vaccine, whether in one dose or a full series of doses.

The problem is one of misunderstanding what "being fully vaccinated" means. It has never meant "fully protected."

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
4. Yep.
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:46 AM
Oct 2021

Fully vaccinated in this case means got two doses of mRNA vaccines.
Because it's a two dose regimen, one can be partially vaccinated, if one got one dose only.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
5. Or three doses.
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:51 AM
Oct 2021

I just got my Moderna booster on Friday. Now, I am "fully vaccinated." That doesn't mean that I can throw my masks away, though. I'll continue to wear one when appropriate. That's because vaccination does not ensure complete protection.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
6. You are considered fully vaccinated after two doses.
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:52 AM
Oct 2021

Three doses are not required-that could be important distinction with vaccine mandates.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
7. Concerning Coverage Of The Death Of Gen. Powell, Sir
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 09:52 AM
Oct 2021

The real point is that coverage neglected for some time any mention of the fact he suffered from a cancer which largely disables the immune system. A person with such an affliction cannot be 'fully vaccinated', no matter how many shots of the stuff they may have had, for their body is not capable of a reliable response either to the stimulation of the vaccine, or to the invasion of a pathogen.

mucifer

(23,523 posts)
8. The vaccines aren't 100% effective even for the most otherwise healthy people
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 10:12 AM
Oct 2021

The vaccines are extremely effective. But, they don't protect everyone. This is why we need such a high percentage vaccinated .
to protect those who the vaccine doesn't help.

CTyankee

(63,901 posts)
9. This is why I always wear a mask when I food shop. It is required but I would do it anyway. I'm
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 11:04 AM
Oct 2021

usually in the store for one long extended shopping, not several quick runs. I want the mask to protect me when I'm there.

ProfessorGAC

(64,989 posts)
10. I Can't Agree With The Concept
Sun Oct 24, 2021, 12:11 PM
Oct 2021

The term "fully vaccinated" came from the predominant formulas that required 2 doses.
So, those with their first dose were only half done.
Fully vaccinated was a simple rhetorical device for identifying those of that got both injections.
Since, nobody calls any vaccine absolute, reducing risk to true zero, one could say no one is ever fully vaccinated against anything. That type of parsing accomplishes nothing.
The vaccines aren't claimed to be 100%, and comorbidities have been understand for well over a year.
If you have gotten both doses of the mRNA formulas, you're fully vaccinated.
This author doesn't get to define the term for their own convenience.

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