Disclosure: I worked for people who experimented on dogs.

[nolabear]

This was nearly forty years ago, at Duke University, where I was a lab tech for a prominent oncology researcher. I’d had vet tech experience and went from there into wildlife rehab. I knew how to assist and I wasn’t squeamish. But we suffered.

Animal research is fraught. It’s hard. Its dreadful. It’s also the reason most of us are alive today. People are trying to come up with computer models to replace what they can, but it’s often still necessary.

I feel deeply sad for the animals sacrificed so we can live, and our children can live, and those of us who worked with them had to ride a fine line between loving them and making their lives as comfortable as possible and keeping enough distance not to go mad with sadness and guilt. There’s an emotional hierarchy in medicine that thank goodness most people don’t have to deal with, because it’s brutal.

The people screaming for Fauci’s blood benefit, and often live, because of the sacrifice the animals in medical experiments make. I am so, so sorry for the pain we caused. I want other ways and know many who’ve developed them. I am grateful beyond words to those gentle souls who had no choice. I am beyond furious for those who are using the general public to try to demolish one man they think is a threat by turning them against the enemy that has saved them a million times over.

And that’s hard truth.

[joetheman]

1. I worked with people who experimented on dogs to develop heart bypass methods that have saved

thousands of lives over the past 50 years. NIH uses and funds many animal research projects. Probably why some of you here are still alive to smear Fauci.

[marybourg]

5. I was just going to write about my experience with the same

surgery - on cats.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

25. Dont write it

Cats are sacred beings.

It would make me furious and break my heart at the same time.

Beautiful felines who had no choice to sicken,die. I ask your forgiveness to make the things that save human lives and in some cases cat lives..

Bast,heal my heart and take those sweet furry heros to the most safe and amazing,the most holy places in your gentle heart let them have endless love and joy. Sa Sekhem Sahu.

My sister worked in a research lab,mostly with rats, she quit and was given a rat she had formed a friendship with. She quit and became a vegetarian after what she saw there.

[marybourg]

27. The particular cat I was going to write about had the surgery

and then lived a long happy life with us. Even had a whoops! kitten when she first came. And tens of thousands of humans and their loved ones benefitted!

[I_UndergroundPanther]

29. Beautiful

So happy for that kitty.
Little child of Bast..I hope your cat's life is long, happy and she is beloved in this life and the next for all eternity.

[cadoman]

2. huh? what study are we even talking about here? [nt]

[nolabear]

3. Mine or the Fauci accusers' claims?

The first? Many. I was a tech. I worked for one main researcher and several who worked under him. The Fauci accusers’ howling is all over the place right now.

[niyad]

4. You know, I do not recall hearing any of their voices raised in protest at the testing

of cosmetics on animals. The stories were horrific, but I do not recall these same voices raised against the practice.

[GoCubsGo]

11. I didn't hear them complain when Greg Abbott vetoed legislation that

Last edited Sun Oct 24, 2021, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)

would have made it illegal to chain up dogs without drinkable water or adequate shade, either. Hell, some of them are probably the ones chaining up the dogs in the Texas sun in the first place.

[renate]

18. THANK YOU

Also, WTH???? Is he literally a sadist?

[Hoyt]

6. Great post.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

7. Thank you for posting this

This work was necessary and has saved many human lives

[James48]

8. I helped out in a dog lab 45 years ago

In college. I had a crush on a girl lab tech, and helped care of the dogs.

They did extensive cardiac surgery there. It was the final animal lab testing with replacement arteries made from modern synthetic materials. Determining if they were actually sew-able, and how long they could last to replace an artery. Some dogs died, some lived. But the techniques and materials developed there were important to medical science.

[nolabear]

19. My husband might well be alive because of that work.

Cardiac surgery has saved more than one person I love.

[Cracklin Charlie]

9. I worked in a lab that did research on AIDS drugs.

The public and pharmaceutical companies were desperate for treatments for those stricken by the disease.

There were animals involved in some of the studies. They were treated throughout with the respect they deserved for their contribution to medical research.

[Snackshack]

10. The hypocrisy is over the top

Testing on animals has been going on forever without the life style we have become accustomed to would not exist and our survival rate would not be close to what it is.

Hopefully as quantum computing becomes more accessible allowing for computing power that can model cellular behavior animal testing will be a thing of the past.

But if people really want to be outraged look into how the local grocery store meat department is kept stocked.

[AndyS]

12. I have nothing to add to what you said.

A sad and hard truth that some suffer so others don't, some die that others live.

It is less so today than yesterday but more so today than it will be tomorrow.

When the guilt and angst over animal testing seems overwhelming ask yourself which of my classmates you'd sacrifice to polio?

If you are completely relieved, shame on you and if you are still outraged, shame on you.

Sometimes hard choices are made.

[Doodley]

13. As a vegetarian, I support the use of animals to progress medicine. Human life is more valuable

than animal life. That said, animals are sacrificed en-mass for us, and we also need to make sacrifices. There's something wrong if we accept animals can be slaughtered for own benefit, but aren't prepared to make even the smallest sacrifices ourselves to benefit the health of each other, like, for instance, putting a mask on during a pandemic that has so far killed three-quarters of a million Americans.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

28. Human life is more valuable to humans

Cat lives are valuable to cats,as are some humans. Cats are sacred beings to me,all of them and to me,more valuable than my own life. My cat saved my fucking life.
If he was not here I would be dead.

I owe him everything.

Animal and human lives are equally valuable. For me cat lives are precious.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. And I am sure aliens use us for the same reasons because we are no more than

dogs to them. It's all a matter of perspective, right?

[nolabear]

20. Yes. It is.

[Kali]

15. I didn't get hired

got a little too emotional on the tour of the facilities (UofA medical school). I could have done the job but I understand why they didn't hire me. I am grateful for medical research, personal care products and make up - shit like that? maybe not so much. I think people could volunteer and be compensated for finding out if shampoo burns the eyes.

[bullwinkle428]

16. Fauci's accusers are the same vile motherfuckers who furiously rub their

micro-peckers with glee, every time the Grand Venereal Wizard's demon spawn post a new picture of some beautiful creature just trying to live its life in the wild, that they just slaughtered for the sheer hell of it, with the object of "triggering the libs".

The hypocrisy is off the charts.

[Doremus]

17. Thank god more and more barbaric practices are becoming moot by technology.

There were few if any alternatives 40 years ago.

Animal testing just isn't the be-all-end-all people think anyway.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4594046/

[nolabear]

22. True. I'm glad they're finding alternatives. I hope they find many more.

[pnwmom]

21. I'm sure you remember Thalidomide. It went through limited animal testing, and after that

the scientific community was determined not to make the same mistake.

[maxrandb]

23. Thank you. I love horses, but I hate diphtheria even more

I may be wrong, but I think the diphtheria vaccine is still made from serum pulled from intentionally infected horses.

Thank god that scourge is gone. The death rate was 5-10% for diptheria, and almost 40% for children

So yeah, experimenting on animals is bad, but if you have 4 children, pick the two you'd let die from diptheria.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Anyone else remember when Former Sen. Majority Leader Bill Frist

admitted that he would adopt cats under the guise of keeping them as pets, and vivisecting them, instead? Never heard a peep from the Right-Wing Outrage Machine about that. I guess it's okay to experiment on cats for shits and giggles?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

30. I hope frist

Is hounded by the cat spirits he lied to ..those cats..earned thier trust and murdered them.

He could have gotten cats already dead.
Killed in a humane way to learn from. Betraying a cats trust to murder them is sociopathic. I have zero respect for Frist he was a fucking murderer.

[Coventina]

26. Why do we value our lives over the lives of animals?

That is just something I can't wrap my head around.

It's just selfishness and cruelty.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

31. I think animal lives are just as valuable

as human lives.

Francis bacon would torture all of nature to pry secrets from her.

Then the christian horseshit that animals have no souls,and are for us to use.

That bullshit some people call it "truth."

[Coventina]

32. Nice to see a kindred spirit.

This thread depresses me.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

33. It hurts my heart too.

Animals have lives,love and have emotions like we do,they communicate with each other and we all have shared genetics all mixed up inside us and inside other species.

I see animals as like us,they have thier own cultures and what is valuable to them.

Many animals have democracies and social contracts.

https://www.treehugger.com/examples-of-animal-democracy-4869126

A male lion in a stable pride kills a cub?
The lionesses chase him from the pride and exile him to certain death.

They know what to do to child abusers.

Somehow we lost how to defend our communities from abusive sociopath people,we reward them power and wealth and let them dominate us.

To the point our democracy is in danger and our social contract broken.

We need to relearn to be sane from the animals.

[ChazII]

34. +1

Well said.

[NickB79]

37. Male lions typically live outside prides

They form all-male hunting groups. It isn't certain death at all.

And it's very common for new males to kill all the cubs when taking over a pride from an old male. It's common in many animal species, in fact.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

47. I know

If no male pride accepts the exiled lion ..

Yes I knew a new dominate lion would kill all his rivals cubs.
Sometimes a lioness would keep one safe,but it didnt happen often.

But I said in a stable pride,abuse of the cubs isnt tolerated by the lionesses.

[NickB79]

35. It's an innate instinct

You have to choose between saving your beloved child or your beloved dog from a burning building, you choose your child.

We can proclaim to the heavens how we value all lives equally, but in a life or death situation we go with the human life. And anyone who chooses an animal over a child is reviled by society.

[Coventina]

36. Well, it's not innate to me. I'd save an animal over a human any day.

I detest my species.

[NickB79]

38. Your own child vs a pet?

Note I didn't say a random human in my previous post.

[Coventina]

39. I don't have any children. But I would definitely give my life for my animal

companions.

I suppose I would sacrifice my life for my own child, but choosing one over the other?

In a split second decision I'd grab whoever was closest, if I truly didn't have the option to do both.

[nolabear]

40. Survival.

I understand your position, sort of, but virtually everything we own or do has an element of sacrificing animal lives in its existence. As I said, I am deeply grateful and sad that it’s part of survival. But I’m glad my loved ones are alive. It’s a dilemma.

My months of work saving animals’ lives with a vet and years of saving them through wildlife rehab is part of the equation. And animals died in the care and feeding of other animals we saved. It’s a hard set of choices. But it’s reality.

[Coventina]

41. I don't want the human species to survive. And yes, I understand the paradox of my statement.

If there comes a time when I feel I am more of a drain on the planet than a benefit, I will take my own life. For now, I am working to help other species, and don't consume animals or animal products. I have no children.

We are the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet and the rest of the ecosphere.

[nolabear]

44. I hope you're a benefit for a long time to come.

[Coventina]

46. Thank you!!

That's very kind of you, and I deeply appreciate it!!

[I_UndergroundPanther]

49. I feel very similar as you do.

I would die to protect my cat Othello. 3 reasons, 1 he is my best freind,2 I owe my life to him and 3 I am responsible for his well being.

I would want to kill myself if I couldn't save him. He is very precious to me and he's a cat,therefore he's sacred.

Lastly humans are destroying the world we are supposed to share with the animals

[StarryNite]

50. I have such a hard time with this issue too.

Right now I am so upset over what is happening with America's wild horses and burros. The Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) are capturing and removing them by the hundreds and hundreds so that more cattle can be brought in to graze our public lands down to bare earth. The Heber wild horse herd in the Apache-Sitgreaves is on the list for a major herd cull next year. If it happens there won't be enough horses left to keep the herd viable. But of course that is the plan...manage them to extinction. The roundups are so inhumane. And once caught the horses are often abused or left standing in feedlots or bought by kill buyers to be sent to slaughter.

This video is from 2013 and the man who is abusing the burro on the ground is still working for the BLM. Helicopters are still being used. Horses and burros are still dying during the captures. Dying at the hands of the agencies that are mandated by law to protect them. And herds are deliberately being managed to extinction.

[link:

|

[Bucky]

42. Snopes shot down the hypier parts of the complaint

Fauci wasn't involved in the approval, the research followed animal experiment guidelines, there were only two dog involved (protocols require two types of animal be tested on before going to human trials... and in this study dog testing was deemed necessary). the study was conducted by U of Georgia and was used on developimg vaccine for a mite for which there's no cure currently.

It's a brutal business, but it will save lives in the long run.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-vaccine-experiment-beagles/

https://www.newsweek.com/anthony-fauci-vaccine-experiments-beagle-dog-research-university-georgia-1616987

[KentuckyWoman]

43. Human body donation after death. Please consider it.

When a body is donated to science it can help save lives in many ways and also helps to stop the use of animal for testing.

Educational institutions use cadavers to help explain anatomy and physiology to medical students.

Practicing surgeons find better ways to perform procedures like transplants, joint replacements, and minimally invasive surgical techniques. They can implant a device in a patient’s spine, heart or brain without concern of causing harm.

Researchers can see how diseases impact a body – they search for causes, which leads to the pursuit for cures.

First responders can gain invaluable hands-on experience in the latest life-saving techniques and technologies.

I had an additional 26 years with my husband thanks to cardiac techniques gained through cadaver research in the 70's and 80's.

Please consider it.

[nolabear]

45. Good point. I'll think about that.

[bluestarone]

48. Trying to make him look like a Frankenstein.

That's who they are. If they are losing they change the story. FUCK THEM all