General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSomething is seriously missing in the public discourse.
There are still people with very loud voices and very high platforms with very large audiences out there screaming from the top of their lungs that the election was stolen. There are still millions of people hearing these lies and believing them. Their blood continues to boil, because they actually believe the election was stolen. This is NOT a good path to be on.
The only counteractive comments I hear/see in the public discourse is whenever a legitimate media host mentions something that Trump or the pillow guy, or Guiliani, say about the election being stolen, they add a side comment after, "there is no evidence that the election was stolen." or it might be "there were over 60 lawsuits about election fraud and they all failed in court."
Adding a side comment on CNN (where zero republicans will notice) after reporting a megaphone lie is NOT ENOUGH. This is only going to get worse, and it IS getting worse.
There needs to be a similar effort on the side of truth to use megaphones, and bully pulpits to scream the truth "THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN! TRUMP LOST BY A SIGNIFICANT MARGIN FAIR AND SQUARE! THE AMERIAN PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY RECOUNTS, AUDITS, AND LAWSUITS AND NONE OF THEM PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE OF FRAUD!"
I'm just not seeing or hearing that. I recall seeing a couple of billboards saying "Trump Lost" but that's it.
Now I know some people will say this would be a waste of time and accomplish nothing. I disagree. By not counteracting these lies, we give them legitimacy.
Remember Kerry's swift boat attacks? How did ignoring those lies turn out? We have to attack lies with truth, or they only get bigger.
I would really like to see more effort in the public arena to proactively infuse the public discourse with something to counteract the constant barrage of lies, still giving legitimacy to the idea the election was stolen.
Imagine if the roles were reversed. If Trump was president he would be using the bully pulpit on a daily basis to spread lies, as he did. Why can't people on the side of the truth do something similar now to remind people of the truth? Why can't Biden, or Harris, or Merrick Garland, hold a press conference about the state of our democracy and remind the American people that there have been many investigations, audits, and it's gone all the way to the Supreme Court and the election was not stolen. Or how about if the Secretaries of State all get together and have a press conference and remind the american people that the elections of every state were certified and its time to move on.
I could see Biden having a real heart-to-heart press conference with the american people. "My fellow americans, our country is in trouble because there are dangerous lies being amplified over megaphones that are dividing our country. The most serious perhaps is the idea that the election was stolen. This is causing millions of people to lose faith in our democracy and our government. Our election system is the most important aspect of our government. There are many checks and balances to make sure elections can not be stolen. Our law enforcement and court systems are in place to decide if there is any question. This has already taken place. There have been dozens of lawsuits, audits, recounts and none of them have produced any evidence of a stolen election. Even the republican secretaries of state have certified and confirmed the results. It is dangerous for the future of our country to continue down this path of having so many people being lied to and thinking they can't trust our election system. It is time to come together as a nation and move forward."
How about a prominent public figure challenges Mike Lindell or some other liar to a public debate?
Or how about a prominent rich person offers $1million to anyone who can produce evidence of widespread election fraud that holds up in court?
How about a full paged ad in a newspaper, or on TV during the World Series, reminding people that the election was legit and how many lawsuits there have been confirming this.
How about a public statement by prominent republicans who acknowledge the truth?
The effort could be personal, attacking and mocking Lindell and those like him, and it can also be respectful just focusing on the facts. Both and all efforts to counteract this attack on the legitimacy of our government and election system are needed, in all forms and modes of discourse, from the top down and the bottom up. The idea that the election was stolen has TOO MUCH legitimacy right now and not enough is being done to counteract it.
And I disagree with those who say it's not worth the effort.
I guess that's my rant for the day.... ARGH.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Those would make the news. Denials or statements that Trump Lost probably would not. We need people being arrested and perp-walked, really. That's big news.
garybeck
(9,932 posts)even indictments (or convictions) would do little to counteract the lies. they will just say that these people were doing the right thing because the election was stolen . they will be seen a political prisoners. don't get me wrong, indictments would be great. But the election lies are still going to be out there and i'm not sure that is the solution.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Arrests and indictments, though, will make the news, and that's what is driving all of this.
Here's the thing: If such indictments and arrests include really prominent players, like Trump and maybe Gaetz and his ilk, it will dominate the news for weeks or months. Timing will matter, too. Personally, I'd like to see those indictment and arrests happen around the first of next year. 2022 is an election year, so if we can keep the GQP corruption and illegal activities in the news during 2022, it will help Democrats in real and substantial ways.
Timing. It matters.
gab13by13
(20,867 posts)the importance of the narrative cannot be overstated.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I think.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)problem: rejection of any confusing complexity. "Obvious" answers have a way of going poof! when even one or two of the other dots to be connected is pointed out.
Such as the reality that most of even the MSM have been constantly refuting (24/7/365+) the Big Lie," quoting every Democratic politician and activist in the nation, without changing trumpist voter minds.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I could do it, but I didn't see the sense in putting that much effort into a game.
I'm not really all that interested in "changing trumpist voter minds," to tell you the truth. I'm interested in shifting some percentage of Republican voters into voting for Democrats as a reaction to Trump's excesses.
The "trumpeters" are beyond reason entirely.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)just a few more percent voting Democrat, even just an additional 2 or 3, would change everything.
Nearly a third of the electorate still don't vote, most fecklessly uninvolved but at least not RWers hopelessly beyond reason. Some additional hard-core RWers did come out of there last time, but not as many as voted Democrat, and hopefully that source is fairly tapped out of hidden frothers.
spanone
(135,636 posts)elleng
(130,156 posts)and it sure as hell IS worth the effort.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)"Or how about a prominent rich person offers $1million to anyone who can produce evidence of widespread election fraud that holds up in court?"
This idea I like. But make it $1 BILLION. A number of people can afford that, like Bezos, Buffett, or Gates.
A million ain't going to do shit to move the needle. A billion would be a BIG DEAL.
And then set a fairly low, tantalizing number, like 'prove that 1,000 votes were fraudulently cast for Biden', something like that.
Then specifically say that Trump himself is eligible for the prize.
Mike Nelson
(9,903 posts)... that would be fine for a few, but the majority of Trumpsters would not care... because they love him unconditionally.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Never.
When you can move the Media to headline what Democrats & their supporters shout, rally or shove right in Ametica's face, will guaranteed be met with a 'fair & balanced🙄' lengthy on air discussion as to 'what's wrong with that Billboard message"
MEDIA DOES NOT GIVE 2 SHITS ABOUT WHAT DEMOCRATS SAY, SHOUT, OR RALLY FOR.
Our Coverage remains shadowed by last week's Breaking News.
Fix that & it all shifts in favor of the Democratic agenda for America.
'Money & Media'
Amishman
(5,541 posts)At some point it's a waste of time to keep going.
garybeck
(9,932 posts)JackHughes
(166 posts)What Democrats still don't understand is that 21st Century American politics is a propaganda war to capture the fleeting attention span of low-information voters, and that their messaging must be simple, repetitive and appeal to emotions.
usaf-vet
(6,094 posts)No more be patient things are happening.
Right, I see that every morning when I get my first cup of coffee and read story after story of negative movement on the GQP side of the aisle.
Adam Schiff is on a book tour doing interviews. I have read his book, and there are lots of things in it that make me mad, but I can't say there is anything new that I haven't heard from other sources since the day Trump came down the escalator.
Trump and his cult mates lie, cheat and steal in every imaginable way, yet no one, to my knowledge, is in jail convicted and sentenced.
Today's most shocking statement is that if Trump runs in 2024 and wins (steals) the White House, HE WILL NEVER LEAVE. And I hate to say it, but I believe that is a fact.
Look at Putin; he got control in Russia and has kept it by every means imaginable. I believe Trump will do no less to hold on to the power by EVERY means possible. Including plutonium poisoning of his political enemies. But he will blame the Chinese, and his followers will believe the outrageous falsehood.
garybeck
(9,932 posts)Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)That should be the K.I.S.S. message for the poorly informed?
Elessar Zappa
(13,650 posts)Although one problem is that the media often prefers covering the lies. Not sure how we get around that.