I understand why goods are costing us more -- but gasoline???

[Cyrano]

Huge freighters are backed up at ports on both coasts. They can't unload because there aren't enough truckers to move out the goods in the containers already on the docks.

HOWEVER, why is gas at the pump costing us more? After all, most of the gasoline we use is not imported. And the gas is delivered to stations by trucks owned or leased by the gas companies.

So let me ask you this. Are the oil companies, Charles Koch and his pals, fucking us again? Are the prices thru the roof because they have an excuse to maximize their profits while fucking all Americans? (And yes, this is the industry that owns countless elected Republicans.)

What's your opinion on this? -- And as for you gas company apologists and lobbyists, I know we'll see your rehearsed propaganda lines posted here, so go ahead and peddle them. Most DUers know bullshit when it's being spread.

[Ohio Joe]

1. I think it's a combination of two things...

1 - Driver shortages. I don't know anyone who drives for oil/gas companies but I do know a fair number of people who drive rigs for a living and they all say now is a great time for them as everyone is begging for drivers.

2 - The very basic oil/gas companies being shits and gouging as much as they can with as little excuse as they have.

[Bettie]

2. Short Answer: they are fucking us

because they want to blame it on Biden and Democrats.

[larwdem]

7. agree

100%

[Ocelot II]

3. Gasoline prices are usually pretty volatile.

A few reasons might be that the loosening of COVID restrictions globally has led to a rapid recovery in global demand for crude oil, leading to a tightening of global crude markets; the OPEC countries have agreed to limit exports; and oil producers may be expecting more restrictions on domestic oil production from the Biden administration.

[ms liberty]

4. Supply has not increased while demand has.

During the pandemic, demand dried up, so we had penty of gas available and so prices dropped. Then when demand dropped, output from the oil companies dropped. Then demand increased as things went back to something approaching normal. But output stayed lower, so supply didn't increase while demand did. Now prices are back up and oil producers are happier.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

5. I'm not sure how much it is still affecting us

But the hurricane that hit Louisiana knocked out a big chunk of refinery production for a while as well.

[Deuxcents]

19. I agree

The North Gulf got hit with hurricanes and tropical storms a few times this season n then the big freeze last winter. All adds up to higher prices at the pump

[fescuerescue]

22. Is there EVER a time that gas prices aren't rising because of a refinery being down?

Seems like that occurs all the time.

Hopefully Biden has some new refineries in the Infrastructure oil, because this happens constantly.

[Ron Green]

6. This country was built on fear and cheap gasoline.

White flight from the cites to the ever-growing suburbs, eliminating public transportation in favor of individual driving, gated “communities” - all of this was possible because of cheap fossil fuel. Anything below about $15 a gallon is cheap, because it leaves out the environmental and social costs.

[maxsolomon]

8. Have you looked at the situation in Europe?

Oil prices are impacted by events GLOBALLY.

[spanone]

9. They went up during the snowstorm in Texas and NEVER CAME DOWN.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. That Caused The Spike In...

...refined product price.
It didn't come down because of supply manipulation by multiple big producers of crude. As refined product prices came down, supply shenanigans forced the raw material cost up.
Take a look at this chart. Pretty dramatic. Price hasn't been this high in 3years. (Yeah, during TFG's term.)
Edit: forgot to link chart.
https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=crude-oil&months=60

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Crude Oil Prices

In early September, the market price was around $63/bbl. Today it's around $74. About 18%. That would be gas at $3, going to $3.54.
It doesn't matter whether we import oil from overseas or not.
All oil, dependent upon grade, is sold on the (essentially) same market.
So, demand spikes or supply cuts anywhere affect all countries pretty much the same.
It's a crummy, anticompetitive system, hut it's the one were stuck with.

[Effete Snob]

12. "After all, most of the gasoline we use is not imported"

What difference do you imagine that makes?

Do you think anyone, anywhere says, "Gosh, we can sell gasoline for $10 a gallon if we export, but we'll sell it domestically for a lot less than that because we like our US customers so much and our shareholders won't mind."

In 2020, for the first time since 1949, the US was a net petroleum product exporter. While this is principally due to the weirdness of markets in 2020 generally, the price of gasoline is not solely determined by the US domestic market. If someone in the world is willing to pay more, that's where it goes.

[Beastly Boy]

13. Two questions:

1. What is your understanding of goods costing more but gasoline being a special case which should not be included in cost of goods?

2. Is "Koch and his pals fucking us again" statement based on sentiment or evidence, and can you point to any time period when they weren't fucking us in the same way they do now? I just don't think gasoline prices at the pump reflect the degree to which Koch and his pals fuck us at any given moment in time.

[Torchlight]

14. Post-pandemic domestic commuting and driving has gone up.

This past winter's in Europe was horrible and depleted a lot of reserve fuel as they were forced to switch from coal and natural gas.

Failure to reach an agreement with Iran has prevented Tehran from increasing export.

The ever-increasing demand from China.

Continuing supply-chain problems.





This is from the AAA newsletter dated last month.

[PoliticAverse]

15. Hurricane Ida disrupted some refinery production and that has led to decreased supplies...

Hurricane Ida disrupted crude oil production and refining activity
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49576

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2021.09.16/main1.svg

[Best_man23]

16. I think its energy companies starting to squeeze the last dollars out of oil

Electric cars are the future, and the oil companies know it. When Hertz puts in a large order for Tesla cars for its fleet, and Ford receives record advanced orders for an all-electric version of the F150 where the first production model has yet to be built, the days of gasoline cars are numbered.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has been building large solar farms and placing solar panels on building at a breathtaking pace. When the lead country in OPEC is investing heavily in solar, the days of oil are numbered.

Once a majority of cars on the road are electric or hybrid, the demand for oil will greatly diminish. There will still be a need for oil for non-energy products like plastics, but barring a major change in government rule across the globe, electric is the future.

[fescuerescue]

23. Starting?

They have been doing that since day 1

[Klaralven]

17. US gas and oil rotary drill rigs in operation

483 rigs in operation recently, versus 2000 at the end of 2011. Companies stopped drilling during the pandemic and are only starting to increase activity.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/e_ertrr0_xr0_nus_cm.htm

[old guy]

18. It's supply and demand.

They supply it and we pay whatever they demand or we do without.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. We went back to work

Demand rose.

Other states need to lower their gas taxes like NJ did. It rose during the pandemic - and then was adjusted back on September 30th.

Granted we are a high cost of living state in general - but we are heavy commuter state. With most of us losing our SALT deduction here - this kitchen table issue helps. Every cent helps.


https://www.nj.com/news/2021/09/njs-gas-tax-goes-down-friday-were-not-kidding.html

[fescuerescue]

21. Everything affects everything

Trucks and Truckers that are moving goods from the docks are truckers that aren't available to haul gasoline.

That's probably not the root cause, but the point is that just because that the gas companies have trucker employees and own their own trucks, doesn't mean that they aren't impacted.

People change jobs etc.

Plus we are at max capacity in terms of pipelines. We lost one pipeline a few months ago for several days and it crippled the southeast for several weeks.

And yes of course there is greed. Like that's new.

Everything is at a breaking point.