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albacore

(2,398 posts)
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 06:48 PM Oct 2021

Verrrry interesting.... vaccinated people die less of OTHER causes, too....

"CDC data show that people vaccinated with the Pfizer or Moderna covid-19 jabs are one-third as likely to die of other causes too."
"The CDC’s study started with the health records of more than 11million Americans. Researchers followed these people from December 2020 to July 2021, recording any deaths and their causes. During this period around 6million people in the cohort received jabs for covid-19. The researchers could then separate those who happened to die after having had their vaccinations from those who died unvaccinated."
"The report showed that, after removing any deaths associated with covid-19, and controlling for demographic factors such as age and sex, people who had been jabbed were far likelier to have survived."
"For the unvaccinated, the mortality rate was more than three times as high, at 1.11 per 100 person-years. The pattern held across all races and ethnicities."
"This is not the first time scientists have found that vaccines designed to prevent one disease would seem to protect against other causes of death. Even though seasonal influenza is only responsible for around 5% of winter mortality, several large-cohort studies have found that the mortality rate due to any cause is around 50% lower in people who have been vaccinated against flu."
"real-world data is never perfectly controlled. It seems all but certain that some still-invisible difference between people who get the vaccine and those who do not, rather than some unknown benefit of the jab, is to thank (or blame) for the vaccine’s correlative effects. Jabs are not immunizations against mortality.”



https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/10/27/people-with-covid-jabs-have-been-less-likely-to-die-of-other-causes?fbclid=IwAR38G7NenJGhrVS7kuDKluXE4OBS1c6H112oi7KgrwbKhxeerg5qqE11vRA

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Verrrry interesting.... vaccinated people die less of OTHER causes, too.... (Original Post) albacore Oct 2021 OP
Perhaps cognitive proficiency is a factor. Midnight Writer Oct 2021 #1
Nah, Vaccinated people are just smarter and make better decisions. dem4decades Oct 2021 #4
Ha! Shermann Oct 2021 #13
... and might make better lovers!" calimary Oct 2021 #17
Nah, definitely make better lovers. They show concern for the needs of others. dem4decades Oct 2021 #18
Yep! calimary Oct 2021 #19
. berni_mccoy Oct 2021 #21
It might if it was actually a thing. littlemissmartypants Oct 2021 #14
Some are unvaccinated for good reason and taking full precautions, including putting off brewens Oct 2021 #2
Many possible explanations unblock Oct 2021 #3
I was going to post something similar GopherGal Oct 2021 #10
Many of the non-vaccinated people I know ThoughtCriminal Oct 2021 #5
Correlation is not causation Ron Obvious Oct 2021 #6
It think the causation is more likely "People with sense making good choices tend to live longer." Gore1FL Oct 2021 #9
Precisely Sherman A1 Oct 2021 #20
Yes, but that would be the correlation n/t Ron Obvious Oct 2021 #22
why did they remove COVID-related deaths? wouldn't that increase the disparity even more? cadoman Oct 2021 #7
It's the other behaviors Jazz Jon Oct 2021 #8
I wonder how much of the difference Mariana Oct 2021 #11
"Excess deaths"....I think the numbers-crunchers are gonna have a field day when/if this is over. nt albacore Oct 2021 #12
I wonder how many thousand fewer people died just from mask wearing... Wounded Bear Oct 2021 #15
Thanks! Rhiannon12866 Oct 2021 #16

brewens

(13,547 posts)
2. Some are unvaccinated for good reason and taking full precautions, including putting off
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:05 PM
Oct 2021

other medical care to avoid contact. That puts them at higher risk for whatever else might do them in. I have my two Moderna, would rather not have contact, but have felt comfortable enough to go to my regular medical appointments. If I was still waiting, I would have put those off.

unblock

(52,126 posts)
3. Many possible explanations
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:05 PM
Oct 2021

For instance, if they're not doing the sensible, healthy thing regarding Covid, the unvaccinated might not be doing other sensible, healthy things.

So maybe they also avoid other vaccines. Maybe they don't take their blood pressure medication consistently. Maybe they just engage in risky behavior more. Maybe they avoid doctors more than most.

Or maybe it's something else. I wonder if the unvaccinated are more likely to be uninsured, which of course is correlated with worse outcomes.

GopherGal

(2,007 posts)
10. I was going to post something similar
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:02 PM
Oct 2021

But had framed my thoughts from the positive point of view: Maybe the vaxxers are more likely to be full participants in preventative medicine in general. Whatever the root cause(s) may be, be it access to health insurance that covers preventative measures, risk-averse temperament, etc.

As I recall, some of the controversy about the relationship between cardiovascular risk and use of hormone replacement therapy to minimize menopausal symptoms was confounded by similar factors. The data were from observational (rather than randomized) studies, and closer examination of the data showed that the women taking hormones for menopausal symptoms were otherwise healthier than those who didn't. The women who self-selected themselves into the "hormones" group tended to be otherwise more healthy than those who didn't.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
5. Many of the non-vaccinated people I know
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:10 PM
Oct 2021

Smoke
Drink heavily
Drive badly
Eat unhealthy foods
Avoid other vaccines (flu, etc)
Avoid routine medical examinations and tests
In general, make poor life decisions


Gore1FL

(21,104 posts)
9. It think the causation is more likely "People with sense making good choices tend to live longer."
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:58 PM
Oct 2021

The vaccine is but one example in a cornucopia of smart living.

cadoman

(792 posts)
7. why did they remove COVID-related deaths? wouldn't that increase the disparity even more?
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:19 PM
Oct 2021
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

It's such a strange comparison to make. I can't find the full death count in the data, but you'd think that _with_ COVID-related deaths the disparity would be jaw-dropping!

Jazz Jon

(109 posts)
8. It's the other behaviors
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 07:25 PM
Oct 2021

My guess is that people who are getting the flu shot take better care of themselves in general... diet exercise, not smoking,, etc. That's a lot of factors that would be hard to control for in a clinical study.

Mariana

(14,854 posts)
11. I wonder how much of the difference
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:07 PM
Oct 2021

is due to deaths caused by Covid-19 that were not reported as such.

albacore

(2,398 posts)
12. "Excess deaths"....I think the numbers-crunchers are gonna have a field day when/if this is over. nt
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:11 PM
Oct 2021

Wounded Bear

(58,605 posts)
15. I wonder how many thousand fewer people died just from mask wearing...
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:39 PM
Oct 2021

Flu season last winter was a near non-event compared to most average years. I don't remember seeing any reports that more people got flu shots.

Rhiannon12866

(204,813 posts)
16. Thanks!
Wed Oct 27, 2021, 08:44 PM
Oct 2021

I need to share this with my brother. I had a conversation with him today about getting the booster (he's not old enough, anyway) and he doesn't see the point since he keeps reading about "breakthrough" cases. He is fully vaccinated, though, got his second (Pfizer) shot in May. *sigh*

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