So, what happens when Manchin and Sinema don't vote for

[berni_mccoy]

This deflated balloon of a bill?

I think this has been a huge political miscalculation to push this massive compromise without getting their agreement to support it.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. What if?

Then it fails. We can’t control what they do. We just have to hope they’ll vote for the reduced package.

[berni_mccoy]

3. If you think a failed bill

Is the only repercussion, then you are in for a lot more disappointment.

[Elessar Zappa]

4. I didn't say that.

But there’s not much we can do other than hope they’ll do the right thing. They’ll be in office until at least 2024.

[TheBlackAdder]

22. They probably get another million dollars in shadow donations.

[Irish_Dem]

2. We compromise and compromise with the GOP and they never vote for a bill anyway.

Maybe it will be the same with Manchin and Sinema.

[berni_mccoy]

5. I'm pretty sure that has been M$S's calculus thus far

They never intended to support it. Many of us have been warning about this for some time.

[dalton99a]

9. They're just having fun at Democrats' expense

[berni_mccoy]

10. It's evil. Plain and simple.

[Irish_Dem]

11. It is corruption, no other explanation.

If we are correct, M and S have just been yanking us around, playing us for fools.

[tirebiter]

57. They (19 Republican senators) already voted for it.

If their plan was for the progressives to overplay their hand, they achieved that goal in so doing.

[Irish_Dem]

59. Not surprised, I thought we were probably being set up in some way.

[Autumn]

6. Nothing happens, the bill goes down in smoke. Along with the Dem "majority".

And the circle is complete.

[Celerity]

56. the 'compromise' scorecard totals for the 2 bills combined (as it stands atm) is brutal

more detail here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15991861

[FBaggins]

7. What happens if they do and Sanders doesn't?

[berni_mccoy]

8. That won't happen. You know why?

Because Bernie negotiates in good faith.

[FBaggins]

16. And yet he's telling House members to vote against it

How is that different?

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. Please post a link to support your claim re: Sanders encouraging no votes. Nt

[FBaggins]

27. "Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Thursday said he's not prepared to support a stripped-down $1.75

billion framework unveiled earlier in the day by the White House, and signaled that progressives in the House should hold off on voting for a separate infrastructure measure."

...snip...

But Sanders, a leader of progressives on both sides of the Capitol, said the framework has "major gaps." - “Clearly to my mind it has some major gaps in it. The American people are very, very clear that they’re sick and tired of paying the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. There is to the best of my knowledge no language in there that takes on the pharmaceutical industry,” Sanders told reporters outside his office.

...snip...
“There are a number of concerns,” he added, referring to a decision to drop a national paid family leave program from the White House framework as well as a limited expansion of Medicare benefits leaving out dental and vision care. “I want to see it improved,” he replied when asked whether he supports the White House framework that President Biden



https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/578919-sanders-says-white-house-framework-has-major-gaps

[Fiendish Thingy]

30. So, he's not urging "no" votes, he's urging that the vote be delayed.

signaled that progressives in the House should hold off on voting for a separate infrastructure measure."

[FBaggins]

34. The question was whether or not Sanders would support what the President is asking for

It appears that the answer is "no" to both things that the President requested this morning.

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. If the president is asking for BIF to be passed before BBB, then yes, Sanders is opposing that

As it goes against the original deal, and asks progressives to trust that Manchin and Sinema will support the BBB, a trust they have not earned.

[FBaggins]

41. Which brings us full circle

We're now asking whether or not Sanders will support the BBB framework that the President has announced.


As it goes against the original deal

As you've been told several times... there was no "original deal". There was a strategy trying to force moderates to support a much larger bill than they wanted by holding some other things hostage... but that wasn't a "deal" between competing sides of a debate.

That strategy already failed.

[Fiendish Thingy]

52. It's not just about supporting the new BBB framework, it's about the sequence of passing the bills

Even if Sanders wholeheartedly supported the new BBB framework, if the BIF passes first, Manchin and Sinema can’t be trusted to support the BBB.

Currently, Pelosi estimates at least 50 members of the CPC will vote no if the vote on the BIF is held first.

[Celerity]

54. exactly, your are spot on in pointing out major difference

[berni_mccoy]

25. That's absolutely a lie. He's asking the House to hold off on the BIF vote

Until both bills are written and passed together as was agreed to by all Democrats.

[FBaggins]

28. See #27. He is not indicating that he will support the President's package.

[berni_mccoy]

37. Wrong. He's saying they need to voted on together.

Sanders hasn’t been saying No all this time and you absolutely know it. Stop bashing Democrats.

[FBaggins]

46. He was explicitly asked whether he supported the President's package

He said that he wanted it to change.

[berni_mccoy]

48. Of course he does. He's already given much away to Manchin and Sinema

But that doesn’t mean he won’t vote for it. For fucks sake quit trying to blame Bernie. You know whose fucking fault this is.

[Bettie]

58. No matter what happens

a certain segment around here will blame progressives.

Even if Manchin and Sinema are the ones to scuttle it, they will blame progressives, because they exist, apparently.

[Patton French]

31. Yes, that is what he said.

I just saw the interview (a brief one in the hall).

[JohnSJ]

12. Don't believe everything our illustrious press is speculating on. There was no opposition

from Manchin and Sinema to it, and the press interprets that as as no

I have to believe that there will be agreement among all Democrats

What would be beneficial I think is if Democrats stop talking to the press about it until it is passed

[berni_mccoy]

14. No opposition doesn't mean they will vote for it.

There is no commitment from them or Biden and Pelosi would have said so.

[brooklynite]

13. How about waiting to see who votes "yes" and who votes "no".

[berni_mccoy]

15. How about getting Manchin and Sinema to commit?

[Autumn]

17. Here's a novel idea for you. We could discuss it. Now.

[brooklynite]

26. Okay, we'll discuss it.

If "some" Democrats don't vote for it, it doesn't pass. If some Democrats do vote for it, it passes.

Just a reminder for the "of course they won't vote for it" folks. They voted for the Infrastructure Bill. It hasn't passed the House yet because "some" Democrats won't currently vote for it.

[Autumn]

35. Is the reason "some" Democrats won't currently vote for it" because it's only a framework

with "actual details" to be added later?

Quick!! Buy this house. Sign this blank document. We'll fill out the contact later!!!!!!!

[brooklynite]

39. The Infrastructure Bill? No, its very detailed.

The House could pass it and Biden could sign it today.

[Autumn]

49. Then it won't be Progressives who torpedo it. It will be the moderates and their friends on the

other side

[brooklynite]

51. Whom, other than the progressives are threatening not to vote for it in the House?

[Autumn]

53. They aren't threatening anything. Put in some text and they will vote for it. They have supported

Bidens agenda, others not so much. What they do not support is the bill that is only the framework with no text. Only an idiot will vote for a bill that will be filled out later.

[dsc]

50. Unlike Sinema, those progressives have publicly stated in clear, unambiguous terms

why they won't vote for it now, and what they need to vote for it later. Sinema refuses to do any of that.

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. Progressive should hold the debt ceiling hostage until a good BBB passes. Nt

[PoliticAverse]

20. That was funny (I hope you meant it to be). n/t

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. Holding the world economy hostage for $160 billion ransom to save the planet is reasonable

The CEPP was a $160 billion program that would have met the 2030 emissions target; how many hundreds of billions would Manchin’s donors lose if the world’s economy collapses?

The debt ceiling is the only mechanism to inflict pain on the 0.01% who are funding the obstruction of the BBB.

[JohnSJ]

23. Republicans would love that. You think that would motivate Manchin and Sinema, That is

very unlikely

and the economic downturn it would cause would be a slaughter for Democrats in the midterms

[MiHale]

21. They will receive a sternly worded letter...

[PoliticAverse]

29. If you can't trust someone that wears an F U ring, who can you trust? n/t

[Taraman]

32. Biden brought the fiery lens of the Presidency on the holdouts

The President went ahead and declared victory and told Americans what that victory meant to them.

That's a whole lot of heat on Sinema and Manchin. Will they sink the entire thing in public view?

[PoliticAverse]

36. You mean with a thumbs down and a curtsey? n/t

[berni_mccoy]

45. Manchin and Sinema are seen with Republicans almost every time they are seen on Video

What does that tell you?

[Autumn]

55. Beware of People Pretending to Be on Our Side who are really fighting against us

The actions of those two and a few more tell me all I need to know. I know who is on my side. And I know who is pretending.

[Johnny2X2X]

33. The panic among some here...

It's concern trolling 101. We're getting a bill, about $1.8 or $1.9 Trillion. Manchin and Sinema are on board. The House will do their part. And we're also getting the bipartisan infrastructure bill done too.

Over $3 Trillion passing this week for the American people after Almost $2 Trillion was passed for us earlier this year.

LISTEN:
Joe Biden is delivering 3 bills in 1 year for the American people, each of them much more significant than anything Trump got done in his whole 4 years. Did we get everything we wanted? No, but we got a ton of great things still.

[berni_mccoy]

40. "Concern trolling"? Thanks for the personal attack.

This is not concern trolling. This is, we lose if the two Senators we have been negotiating with don’t vote to support this thing. And I think it’s absolutely reasonable to believe they won’t.

[634-5789]

44. Agreed. We have to talk about these serious isses...HERE.

[634-5789]

42. AMEN! I've been ostracized here for criticism of Manchin.

But when your own party's members go against your entire party's platform, what does that say?

[berni_mccoy]

43. Welcome to the club.

You gotta have thick skin here. Thankfully I do.

[634-5789]

47. I do too. Thick skin is my middle name.