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Baitball Blogger

(46,700 posts)
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:28 AM Oct 2021

So, if Hannah Gutierrez Reed did not put the bullet in the prop gun, how

did live ammo get in the gun? Her lawyer has come up with a statement, contradicting all the info alleging an unsafe set.

This is turning into a Murder she Wrote.

Two things I can be sure of: Alec Baldwin did not put the live round in the gun, but he will ultimately pay the cost for the accident because he was the producer.

I really would hate to see this result in a judgment decided on the circumstantial evidence from testimonials of what people saw that would suggest an unsafe set.

I think it's important to find out who put the live round in the gun to determine if there was something more premeditated that happened. Since Alec Baldwin is a high profile person, supporting Leftie causes, it's important to rule out the possibility that the Right created this situation to destroy him.

110 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So, if Hannah Gutierrez Reed did not put the bullet in the prop gun, how (Original Post) Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 OP
I hope the Santa Fe PD is up to the task. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #1
I don't trust the DA Sur Zobra Oct 2021 #31
Some of these cities don't have enough experience to deal with high profile homicide cases. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #33
It'll be the county and not the city, Sur Zobra Oct 2021 #83
I'll admit this is becoming an interesting mystery FoxNewsSucks Oct 2021 #2
Hannah Gutierrez Reed Goonch Oct 2021 #3
Her publicity photos unfortunately do not inspire a great deal of confidence. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #38
She says, producers overruled her safety requests Shanti Shanti Shanti Oct 2021 #88
;-{)🖖‍ Goonch Oct 2021 #95
total case of nepotism Skittles Oct 2021 #101
"the possibility that the Right created this situation to destroy him" Effete Snob Oct 2021 #4
I would imagine a thorough investigation will look into ALL possibilities. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #8
Sound analysis. Occam's razor is the natural enemy of conspiracy theory. n/t Whiskeytide Oct 2021 #11
The crew could have known what the next shot was. Kablooie Oct 2021 #20
Weren't there some disgruntled crew who walked off? C_U_L8R Oct 2021 #5
Not sure, but it's something they should look into. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #15
Yes, the union camera crew left 6 hours before the incident--which means about Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #32
They should be brought in for questioning. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #34
They were union crew who quit because they were worried about safety Withywindle Oct 2021 #100
Alec Baldwin was NOT the Production Manager (a very specific position), but a Producer hlthe2b Oct 2021 #6
Thank you. I corrected the title. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #10
What I have been hearing from the "experts" such as they are, on cable news... Thomas Hurt Oct 2021 #7
Including Himself WHITT Oct 2021 #16
I think you are right, he didn't really check the gun just handed it Baldwin. Thomas Hurt Oct 2021 #18
He's Not Supposed To Touch Any Firearms WHITT Oct 2021 #21
Alec Baldwin has probably been in over a dozen pictures where he handled guns exboyfil Oct 2021 #24
He shot up a submarine in "Hunt for Red October" Thunderbeast Oct 2021 #28
I don't think that's true Hav Oct 2021 #25
That Would Be WHITT Oct 2021 #27
Baldwin should have checked the gun too. BlackSkimmer Oct 2021 #40
They were rehearsing a scene Hav Oct 2021 #43
Every armorer who has commented on this tragedy says actors are NOT to point at people. BlackSkimmer Oct 2021 #62
To double check the gun, Baldwin would have to unload all the rounds and verify that they are dummy LisaL Oct 2021 #73
Most production companies require any actors on the set to observe the guns being loaded ripcord Oct 2021 #86
This production clearly didn't require that. LisaL Oct 2021 #93
They've also said that there are usually lexan shields in front of camera operators around gunfire WarGamer Oct 2021 #91
They were using Covid protocols which is why the AD handed Baldwin the gun. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #67
If anyone can examine the gun, that would give opportunity to put in live rounds. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #36
the early tv reports said people on the set would have target practice and that was why live ammo orleans Oct 2021 #103
Yes I read that. Only in America would this be encouraged. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #104
so in addition to being an actor and a producer on this film, he was also a production manager? eShirl Oct 2021 #9
I fixed it. Thank you. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #12
My guess is a wacko TFG worshiping Qnut put it there. Roisin Ni Fiachra Oct 2021 #13
The gun angle is the red flag or... Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #17
Columbo would have settled this. in 1 hour. I may be doc03 Oct 2021 #14
Yep Effete Snob Oct 2021 #23
With so many on a set, I'm actually confident that most will come out Hav Oct 2021 #19
The only way Baldwin would have known that there was a live round exboyfil Oct 2021 #22
The way to know if there is a live round in the camber is to check ripcord Oct 2021 #37
No actor is expected to pull dummy rounds out of a gun Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #39
The rules are put into place by individual production companies ripcord Oct 2021 #42
If you are the armorer or any other export on set Hav Oct 2021 #44
How guns are almost always used does not really apply in Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #46
The first rule of handling guns is there are no unloaded guns Klaralven Oct 2021 #47
That does not apply to this situation, because it wasn't a gun Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #48
All of those rules are always broken on movie sets Hav Oct 2021 #49
This was not a toy gun or a rubber or plastic replica used as a prop gun Klaralven Oct 2021 #50
You are talking about how things are done in Hollywood ripcord Oct 2021 #53
I think you're exactly wrong, but we'll find out. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #56
I think you are right here. ForgedCrank Oct 2021 #110
So disgruntled magat who didnt appreciate his impression of the Fullduplexxx Oct 2021 #26
Do not rule out labor unrest. Sneederbunk Oct 2021 #29
I'm still pretty sure this armorer wasn't fully aware of what was loaded Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #30
That sums it up. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #35
She is the one responsible for loading and unloading it. LisaL Oct 2021 #60
Yes, she'd better be hoping that someone waited for her to turn her back Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #63
How did a live round get anywhere near the movie set? Mysterian Oct 2021 #41
Did the script call for Baldwin to point and shoot the gun at Halyna Hutchins? Klaralven Oct 2021 #45
From what I have read sarisataka Oct 2021 #51
Some reference for what should have happened ripcord Oct 2021 #76
Good information sarisataka Oct 2021 #79
Do you think the script might have been about him aiming the gun Hav Oct 2021 #52
Alec Baldwin was practicing drawing gun when it discharged Klaralven Oct 2021 #54
Which is why I do not sarisataka Oct 2021 #57
I think we'll learn more as time passes Hav Oct 2021 #58
I had read he was practicing a cross-draw type of action, I saw no Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #55
I also assume it discharged during the motion and not while Hav Oct 2021 #61
I've seen reports that they are careful that no one is in the way of a potential blank discharge, Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #64
Gun was loaded with dummies (not blanks) and one live ammo. LisaL Oct 2021 #70
Some people are willing to sarisataka Oct 2021 #66
Well, I think I could be fair no matter who the actor involved was. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #74
None xmas74 Oct 2021 #82
To be negligent, one doesn't have to intentionally point a gun at someone. Kaleva Oct 2021 #71
I don't know that the evidence yet supports he was negligent as an actor unless his Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #75
Standard safety rules apply everywhere. Kaleva Oct 2021 #77
He WAS under the supervision of someone who was trained on the use of guns on Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #78
The safety rules are simple as heck Kaleva Oct 2021 #80
Right, and that's why an actor would never think there's an actual bullet in Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #81
The very fact he had the gun in hand that killed one and wounded another proves it. Kaleva Oct 2021 #84
He pointed it at the camera but hey don't let the facts get in the way. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #69
He pointed it at the camera because that was how the shot was supposed to go. haele Oct 2021 #85
Yes we agree. Or were you meaning to gldstwmn Oct 2021 #87
He did more than point it at the camera Crepuscular Oct 2021 #96
He was camera blocking a scene in a movie. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #97
... Crepuscular Oct 2021 #98
Sorry, Alec Baldwin with criminal charges isn't going to be in your Christmas stocking this year. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #99
... Crepuscular Oct 2021 #105
What's that old Dusty Springfield song? Wishin' and hopin'? gldstwmn Oct 2021 #108
There is no statement like this from her. LisaL Oct 2021 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author spanone Oct 2021 #90
It's whomever used the gun for target practice at lunch. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #65
That's just a rumor. LisaL Oct 2021 #68
Yes and my post is my opinion on the OP. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #72
My theory... WarGamer Oct 2021 #89
It was not brought from home. LisaL Oct 2021 #92
I thought I heard that the armorer had 2 guns in her control and thre were 3 on the gun cart? WarGamer Oct 2021 #94
From the yahoo news article, witness blames the AD, not the armorer. FreepFryer Oct 2021 #102
The plot thickens. Baitball Blogger Oct 2021 #106
That's not an either/or Azathoth Oct 2021 #109
She was responsible for custody of the gun. End of story. Azathoth Oct 2021 #107

Irish_Dem

(46,918 posts)
1. I hope the Santa Fe PD is up to the task.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:31 AM
Oct 2021

And doesn't get blinded by the wealthy and famous.
Like the Jon Bennet Ramsey case.

And yes I hope they can rule out the scenario you describe.
It is certainly possible it was a set up.

All the evidence is pointing to incompetence of the highest order, but who knows?

 

Sur Zobra

(3,428 posts)
31. I don't trust the DA
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:16 PM
Oct 2021

In this case she and the SF County Sheriff are the lead investigators, but in another case in which she and the SF Police Department were involved, they ignored evidence and tried the wrong guy with murder; the jury saw that that the wrong guy was charged and found him not guilty, fortunately.

Irish_Dem

(46,918 posts)
33. Some of these cities don't have enough experience to deal with high profile homicide cases.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:02 PM
Oct 2021

And then if there are well connected, wealthy suspects with high power attorneys they get intimidated or worse.

So yes, based upon what you are saying, we don't know if the city can handle this case appropriately.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,429 posts)
2. I'll admit this is becoming an interesting mystery
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:32 AM
Oct 2021

and worthy of covering.

But I got tired (a week ago) of it leading every hour, dominating all day, and treated as more important than what are far more critical things.

I'm also sick of the media and hypocritical politicians which are making a big deal out of this single gun incident while turning a blind eye and actually enabling the NRA and tens of thousands of annual gun deaths.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
4. "the possibility that the Right created this situation to destroy him"
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:33 AM
Oct 2021

That would be pretty far fetched. Putting a live round into a prop gun in the hope that the gun will be pointed at a person when someone pulls the trigger is banking on pretty slim odds.

Answering the various questions is why we have investigators, courts and juries.

Baitball Blogger

(46,700 posts)
8. I would imagine a thorough investigation will look into ALL possibilities.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:37 AM
Oct 2021

The one thing we can count on if someone on the Right had anything to do with this, it that we'll hear about it on social media because they can't help themselves. They will boast about it.

Kablooie

(18,625 posts)
20. The crew could have known what the next shot was.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:59 AM
Oct 2021

After lunch they would shoot a scene where Balswin aims the gun at the camera.
The camera was to look down the barrel of the gun.
This could have been in the script so many would know what was next.
During lunch the bullet could have been switched.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
32. Yes, the union camera crew left 6 hours before the incident--which means about
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:17 PM
Oct 2021

7 or 8 am that morning.

Irish_Dem

(46,918 posts)
34. They should be brought in for questioning.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:05 PM
Oct 2021

They could be guilty or could have valuable information about who is.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
100. They were union crew who quit because they were worried about safety
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 01:27 AM
Oct 2021

Obviously justifiably so.

Some of them had walked off the job just that morning, and non-union crew brought in to replace them.

hlthe2b

(102,225 posts)
6. Alec Baldwin was NOT the Production Manager (a very specific position), but a Producer
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:36 AM
Oct 2021
This isn't to say he does not face major liability as A PRODUCER, but it is far more complicated than that. If you can get past the paywall, read this piece from LAT:

Alec Baldwin is credited as a producer on ‘Rust.’ What does that really mean?

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2021-10-26/rust-alec-baldwin-producer-explained
The production of “Rust” was a thicket of numerous production companies and multiple financiers, which isn’t unusual for an independent production of its scale, but it leads to various people sharing the titles of executive producer or producer without much clarity to outside observers regarding just who is responsible for what.

From a copy of the day’s call sheet obtained by The Times, the producers on the project besides Baldwin were Matt DelPiano — who is Baldwin’s manager and a former CAA agent — Ryan Smith, Anjul Nigam, Nathan Klingher and Ryan Winterstern. The film also had four executive producers.

Sometimes the credit is simply a vanity title to boost an actor’s sense of involvement in a project. Sometimes it is a way to defer upfront fees to a performer in favor of back-end payments. And sometimes an actor is so deeply involved with a project that the credit is a way to make official their added influence along the way.

Distinctions between an executive producer and a producer credit also come into play in determining awards eligibility and who among a producing team potentially gets to take home a statue. Only producers are eligible for Oscar nominations, not executive producers. Meanwhile, in television, executive producer is often the more “hands-on” credit, including for showrunners. All of which can dilute the true meaning of the title.

“This ‘Rust’ situation opens up the whole discussion about what a producer is and who the buck stops with really. Who is responsible for Halyna’s death?” said Mynette Louie, Independent Spirit Award-winning producer of films such as “Swallow” and “I Carry You With Me.” “When you have a bunch of executives and managers and actors and people who aren’t really producers in a hands-on way, where you’re seeing to the cast and crew and the safety and the liability of the production, then who does the buck stop with?”



Oct. 26, 2021

On a copy of the “Rust” screenplay obtained by The Times, Baldwin shares a story credit with the film’s director, Joel Souza, which does point to a higher level of involvement in the project’s creative development. He also had a producing credit on Souza’s previous film, 2019’s “Crown Vic,” in which Baldwin did not appear as an actor.

A few days before the accident, Baldwin posted a video online expressing support for IATSE members who were threatening to strike in part over issues of on-set safety. Yet as trouble brewed on the set of “Rust” leading up to Hutchins’ death, it is not clear how aware Baldwin was of the dysfunction on the production or what role he might have played in addressing any problems.

“It’s so malleable,” said a producer who has worked with actor-producers in the past and declined to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the subject. “He could just step back and say, ‘I don’t know what you’re talking about, I’m acting in this,’ even though, in name, he’s a producer. Or he could feel a lot of responsibility. It just all depends on who the actor is.”

Two people on a film set who both have the title of producer may nevertheless perform different functions on the production, from finding and developing the material to hiring the crew. Tom Nunan, continuing lecturer at the UCLA School of Theater, Film and Television and an executive producer on the Oscar-winning “Crash,” likened the distinction between more creative producing work and that of physical production to the difference between an architect and a contractor working on a building.


Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
7. What I have been hearing from the "experts" such as they are, on cable news...
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:37 AM
Oct 2021

is that there should been no real live rounds on the set at all. The person responsible for that is this Reed woman.

The experts also talked about how the Asst Director should be allowing anyone on the set a chance to examine the gun.

Did Baldwin take the time to check the gun himself? I don't remember seeing anything about that.

WHITT

(2,868 posts)
16. Including Himself
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:52 AM
Oct 2021
The experts also talked about how the Asst Director should be allowing anyone on the set a chance to examine the gun.

The assistant director handling firearms is a violation of protocols, and the assistant director handing the actor a firearm is a violation of protocols.

WHITT

(2,868 posts)
21. He's Not Supposed To Touch Any Firearms
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:04 AM
Oct 2021

The armorer is supposed to have any firearms in a locked case, only to be removed to load with blanks, and then be handed directly to the actor, and after the director yells 'cut', the actor hands the firearm back to the armorer, who puts it back in the case and locks it.

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
24. Alec Baldwin has probably been in over a dozen pictures where he handled guns
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:19 AM
Oct 2021

I wonder if he noticed the breakdown in procedures. He wasn't the line producer so he wasn't responsible directly for day to day operations, but, as they say in my company, everyone is responsible for safety.


I couldn't see another western in which Baldwin was involved in. I wonder if this was the first time he acted with a revolver. I got to think the procedures would be different for that (instead of a single dummy being in the chamber of a an automatic to simulate clearing it), you have up to six dummies required to add authenticity in close ups.

Real guns should never be pointed at another individual. The gun in that scene should have been a simulated gun. When blanks are fired there is supposed to be a plexiglass shield between the gun and other actors and the crew.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
25. I don't think that's true
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:23 AM
Oct 2021

Apparently, the Assistant Director was part of the protocol for gun safety, for instance, checking the barrel for obstructions and I think also being shown that the gun is cleared and checking it himself.
There are deliberately no single points of failures, the responsibility is meant to be distributed.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
40. Baldwin should have checked the gun too.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 02:56 PM
Oct 2021

Never mind that he shouldn’t have aimed it in the direction of people.

Every experienced armorer, many whose comments have been posted here, say that experienced actors check the gun. And they know not to point it at people.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
43. They were rehearsing a scene
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:14 PM
Oct 2021

probably checking how it looked on camera. Of course he aims it towards the camera or generally in the direction of people at any given time on the set while shooting the movie. It's a movie, not the gun range. That's why people have to make sure what kind of ammo is used for a particular scene (and hopefully it never contains live ammo) and act accordingly. Obviously, Baldwin and the people around him operated under the assumption that they were using a cold gun.

 

BlackSkimmer

(51,308 posts)
62. Every armorer who has commented on this tragedy says actors are NOT to point at people.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:35 PM
Oct 2021

They make it look the way they want for the film with camera angles, blocking, etc. They’ve also said that experienced actors always double check the gun.

Believe me, anyone with any gun sense and/or training checks to see if it is loaded the minute it’s in their hands. I cannot imagine not checking. My father taught me to shoot when young. He made me check the weapon every single time, no matter if I’d watched him load or unload it just moments before. It’s a deadly weapon. I can’t imagine taking someone’s word for it.

It takes just a minute to be safe.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
73. To double check the gun, Baldwin would have to unload all the rounds and verify that they are dummy
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:03 PM
Oct 2021

rounds. Dummy rounds have small holes on their sides. I don't think Baldwin is responsible for loading and unloading the gun, or that actors should be loading and unloading guns-that's what the armorer is for.

ripcord

(5,346 posts)
86. Most production companies require any actors on the set to observe the guns being loaded
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 06:53 PM
Oct 2021

Armorers have no special certifications, are covered under no laws or regulations and can't absolve anyone of their legal responsibilities for handling a firearm. "I didn't know it was loaded" is never a valid legal defense and everyone who holds a gun is responsible for its use and safety. If a firearms instructor hands you a gun and tells you it is unloaded, you still have a legal responsibility to check before you pull the trigger, same at a gun store or with a friend, this is no different. It doesn't matter how it was being used on set, it is an actual firearm, a deadly weapon and anyone using it has responsibilities.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
91. They've also said that there are usually lexan shields in front of camera operators around gunfire
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:42 PM
Oct 2021

armored lexan...

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
67. They were using Covid protocols which is why the AD handed Baldwin the gun.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:56 PM
Oct 2021

The AD is senior to the armorer and is sort of her supervisor.

Irish_Dem

(46,918 posts)
36. If anyone can examine the gun, that would give opportunity to put in live rounds.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:07 PM
Oct 2021

Shouldn't the guns be kept more secure?
Only a small number of people can handle them?

orleans

(34,049 posts)
103. the early tv reports said people on the set would have target practice and that was why live ammo
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 02:36 AM
Oct 2021

was around

it sounded crazy to me; bored, on break, let's go shoot some guns!

Irish_Dem

(46,918 posts)
104. Yes I read that. Only in America would this be encouraged.
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 08:45 AM
Oct 2021

Recreational use of prop guns with live ammo.

eShirl

(18,490 posts)
9. so in addition to being an actor and a producer on this film, he was also a production manager?
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:38 AM
Oct 2021

that's not what IMDB says

Hav

(5,969 posts)
19. With so many on a set, I'm actually confident that most will come out
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 09:58 AM
Oct 2021

So far, there is still too much room for speculation. That's why one shouldn't be too fast with blaming someone and one should also be careful with conspiracy theories.

I read that the guns on set were also used for target practice. It wouldn't be surprising if someone used it for practice and put the gun back without removing the ammo. The stories so far seemed to say the Assistant Director gave the gun to Baldwin and I didn't read that he first got it from the armorer, the actual expert on set. I only read he went to the table to get the gun. If that's the case, he should have followed what I assume is protocol to provide multiple layers of security: Wait for the armorer to clear the gun and then he checks it as well before handing it to the actor.

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
22. The only way Baldwin would have known that there was a live round
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:07 AM
Oct 2021

among the dummy rounds would be for it to be one of the following:

1. Apparent from looking at the end of the rounds (lack of a primer). I would like to know how different the live round looked from the dummies
2. Dropping the hammer on every round in the cylinder while pointing the gun in a safe direction (very difficult in a building).
3. Removing the cartridges from the cylinder and shaking them. They either should have no gunpowder in them (whether you really could hear that fact I question) or you hear the sound of BBs if they were loaded in the dummy.

Apparently the dummy rounds had some distinctive feature on the side to indicate that they were dummies, but I question this because part of the reason for the dummies is to add realism of showing an actor loading a weapon.

Several different Hollywood types have come forward to indicate how the process is done usually. The armorer is supposed to present the weapon to the actor with it opened and with a good light source. They are supposed to examine each round in the cylinder.

I can't ever understand pointing an actual gun at a camera, production staff, or other actors. They should be using a fake gun for those types of scenes.

There is a picture in People showing the table in which the guns rested. It looks haphazard with no guns labelled or organized.


Also the armorer took the spent cartridge out of the gun after the shooting. Now we don't know when her prints were pujt on the round.

ripcord

(5,346 posts)
37. The way to know if there is a live round in the camber is to check
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:07 PM
Oct 2021

I don't care if it is a movie set or not, if the gun is capable of firing live ammunition the person pulling the trigger needs to know the gun is safe and the only way to do that is to check. That is the standard for anyone holding a gun capable of firing live ammunition and I don't see any reason it shouldn't apply in this case, I can see why charges against him haven't been ruled out.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
39. No actor is expected to pull dummy rounds out of a gun
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 01:34 PM
Oct 2021

loaded by a professional armorer, one by one, to ensure they're dummy rounds and not an actual round. These guns are set up and controlled by professionals. Actors aren't weapons and ammo people, they're actors, they are consumed with their roles, that's why they hire people to ensure the function and safety of any weapons used on the set. But the safety they ensure is generally all about blanks, because that's how actors in the past have died. There is ZERO expectation that a gun used in filming would "unintentionally" have an actual bullet in it. Has it ever happened? Not in recent times.

ripcord

(5,346 posts)
42. The rules are put into place by individual production companies
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:13 PM
Oct 2021

There are no laws or regulations covering the use of firearms on a movie set so there is nothing that overrides the law that the person who pulls the trigger is responsible for knowing the gun is loaded. If someone hands you a gun it is always your responsibility to make sure it is not a danger to you or anyone else.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
44. If you are the armorer or any other export on set
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:20 PM
Oct 2021

specifically hired to make sure a gun is safe and when you are liable for the decisions you make, I'd think the last you'd want is an actor fucking around with the gun you just cleared. Maybe you clear the weapon so that the actor can see it as well but why would you introduce any risk by letting a non-expert do anything with the gun except for what the scene demands?

But I agree that the it depends on what the protocol on that set was.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
46. How guns are almost always used does not really apply in
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:28 PM
Oct 2021

what is done on a movie set. 99 percent of gun use and handling by law enforcement and the public is as a potential lethal weapon firing actual ammunition. On a film set, it can be a dangerous item due to the use of blanks, requiring professionals in charge of it--but again, it's not being used in any way, shape, or form as a real lethal weapon that will fire an actual bullet. I really don't understand why people aren't getting this distinction. Why would Alec Baldwin or any actor think there's a real bullet in a gun supposedly prepared and checked for him on a film set by at least two professional people on that film set? Has that ever happened before in Hollywood history, that an actor handles a gun provided him on a set and a real bullet unexpectedly comes out? Should he have stopped what he was doing and considered the possibility that someone mixed in a real bullet along with the fake rounds? Do you stop yourself before you drive a car because someone might have loosened your lug nuts or tampered with your brakes, and check them?

If anything, he would have had to be mindful about the possibility of firing a blank round, but that most likely wouldn't have killed anyone in this instance. But as for making sure it was empty, it's my understanding that there were supposed to be dummy rounds in the gun to appear realistic, and they don't have gunpowder in them.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
47. The first rule of handling guns is there are no unloaded guns
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:32 PM
Oct 2021

Second rule is to never point a gun at anything you would regret shooting.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
48. That does not apply to this situation, because it wasn't a gun
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:41 PM
Oct 2021

in use as an actual gun--it's not comparable to almost any other situation. They have an entire profession and protocols dedicated to ensure no one gets hurt by guns-as-props on a film set. I would be VERY surprised if an actor is found to bear liability for not finding a real bullet among dummies that was inside a gun used on a set, prepared for him by people whose job it was to control the proper functioning and safety of it. Now if Baldwin knew there was a possibility of the presence of a live round (meaning not a blank in this instance) and someone can prove that, then he may be in trouble. And he may bear some liability as one of several producers for general film safety. But as for the actual shooting, I don't think he will be found liable for that.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
49. All of those rules are always broken on movie sets
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:45 PM
Oct 2021

because they normally don't handle guns with ammo that kills. There are certain types of ammo that come with stricter safety concerns but people have to stop quoting these rules for gun safety for this case. It was a movie!
I wouldn't check a toy gun for live ammo or have concerns about aiming it another person.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
50. This was not a toy gun or a rubber or plastic replica used as a prop gun
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:49 PM
Oct 2021

It was a real functional unmodified weapon. Any use of such, that is not called for in the shooting script, is carelessness.

It's my understanding that such weapons are to be kept under lock and key unless being used in the filming of a scene.

ripcord

(5,346 posts)
53. You are talking about how things are done in Hollywood
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:09 PM
Oct 2021

But that doesn't supersede the law, those rules were put into place by production companies and enforced by insurance companies. In the eyes of the law this is no different than a friend handing you a gun, telling you it was unloaded and you killing someone with it, Hollywood customs don't mean a thing in this situation.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
56. I think you're exactly wrong, but we'll find out.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:13 PM
Oct 2021

Edit to add: someone will most likely be charged for manslaughter or something similar, but I doubt it would be Baldwin.

ForgedCrank

(1,779 posts)
110. I think you are right here.
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 09:48 PM
Oct 2021

Film set rules don't dictate what happens now. The law of the state and county do.
At least one person is guilty of a negligence level crime, and a lot of people are liable. Who, what, and all that will only be decided according to the guidelines of the law.
Personally, I think Baldwin is ultimately responsible here. Doesn't matter what the guidelines were, he should have checked. I know I wouldn't pull that trigger unless I had personally checked, and I would demand that for two reasons. First, I don't want to live with the fact that I accidentally shot and injured or killed someone, and secondly, I don't want to go to jail and get sued. Not personally checking is outright unconscionable.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
30. I'm still pretty sure this armorer wasn't fully aware of what was loaded
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 12:13 PM
Oct 2021

into the revolver, like she didn't know the difference between dummy and real rounds, and she obviously wasn't up to the job in general, despite the very expected blame-shifting by her attorneys. However I remain suspicious of a crew who was angry about a lot of stuff, left the set noticeably as a group, and also had their union put the word out within 12 hours that "no one in the union was involved in this accident" (to paraphrase)--before the investigations had barely been started. Really hinky. AND they knew the armorer was badly inexperienced and in over her head--maybe someone took advantage of that.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
60. She is the one responsible for loading and unloading it.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:31 PM
Oct 2021

And if she didn't know the difference between dummy and real rounds, what business would she have being an armorer? This kind of seems to be the minimum requirement for that job.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
63. Yes, she'd better be hoping that someone waited for her to turn her back
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:37 PM
Oct 2021

at the last minute and put the real round(s) into it right before it was given to the AD and Baldwin. Even then, it was supposed to be under her control at all times. It's really hard to see how she doesn't get charged with at least some kind of negligence here, either from literally not knowing what she was doing with the guns and ammo, or allowing the guns to be out of her sight and control, or not rechecking the weapon before allowing it to be used in a scene.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
45. Did the script call for Baldwin to point and shoot the gun at Halyna Hutchins?
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:22 PM
Oct 2021

If not, (and it seems unlikely), then it is Baldwin for involuntary manslaughter.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
51. From what I have read
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:50 PM
Oct 2021

(Which changes multiple times daily) and heard from NPR interviews with people who work in the film industry-

-Hutchins and the director were setting up the shot. During the filming they would move to a station that allows them to work the camera remotely out of the line of fire

-a bullet resistant sheet of plexiglass would be set in front of the camera to protect it from expelled gasses or inadvertent projectiles

-the set would be cleared of people in every direction the firearm will be pointing for that shot.

-it was a rehearsal shot, not a print so NOTHING should have been in the gun.

There are the rules to gun handling but in rare cases there are exceptions. Movie filming is one of the exceptions but other rules are then purpose into place of the standard rules. Those are the rules that were not followed.

This is a very big sandwich with lots of room for many people to take bites. Who gets to eat the majority is still under investigation. At this point I neither condemn nor absolve Baldwin.

Many facts are still unclear and too many "facts" are what someone's-friend's-cousin's-sister-heard-on-TV-from-a-reporter-that-inverviewed-a-person-who-was-once-in-a-play.

ripcord

(5,346 posts)
76. Some reference for what should have happened
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:17 PM
Oct 2021
https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01FIREARMS.pdf

INDUSTRY WIDE LABOR-MANAGEMENT SAFETY COMMITTEE

SAFETY BULLETIN #1

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF "BLANK AMMUNITION"

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
79. Good information
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:35 PM
Oct 2021

Obviously several recommendations were not followed.

I wonder what, if any, set specific variations or additions were in place

Hav

(5,969 posts)
52. Do you think the script might have been about him aiming the gun
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 03:57 PM
Oct 2021

towards the camera with the cinematographer and director being close to the camera? You think maybe that is a possibility?
Why are people deliberately choosing the least charitable takes for this?

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
54. Alec Baldwin was practicing drawing gun when it discharged
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:10 PM
Oct 2021
Alec Baldwin was practicing drawing his gun across his body and pointing it at the camera when it went off, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, according to an affidavit released on Sunday, Reuters reported.


https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/578243-alec-baldwin-was-practicing-drawing-gun-when-it-discharged

It sounds like he was goofing off on his own initiative uncoordinated with the crew.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
57. Which is why I do not
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:22 PM
Oct 2021

Absolve him of blame as several threads have done.

He is a veteran actor who has been in movies with firearms before. He should have been aware of the standard on set safety rules. If he wanted to practice his movements he should have been doing so in such a way that he did not point the gun at anyone.

I need more information however before I go to the grand jury to ask for homicide charges, e.g. was it normal for the AD to hand him a gun and declare it safe or did someone else do that. The more violations of SOP from his point of view, the greater his culpability.

ETA> there was also mention of previous accidental discharges, some saying it was the same gun. I have not seen anything authoritative that it was the same gun but if so, I cannot blame someone for faulty equipment that they were unaware of.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
58. I think we'll learn more as time passes
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:25 PM
Oct 2021

I've read accounts that don't seem to indicate he was goofing around on his own but basically rehearsing with the crew testing to see how it looked on camera.
From the Variety article:
"Souza and Hutchins were standing behind the camera to see the angle. Baldwin was sitting on a wooden pew facing south towards the camera and crew, outfitted in Western garb. After noticing a shadow, Souza and Hutchins repositioned their gear and were talking with Baldwin, who was showing them how he planned to pull the gun from his holster when it discharged."

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
55. I had read he was practicing a cross-draw type of action, I saw no
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:12 PM
Oct 2021

news articles stating that he was even intentionally pointing it at anyone. It may have discharged while in motion. I've figured out it's because it's Alec Baldwin--some people are VERY invested in seeing him held guilty for this. If it was Scarlett Johansson or pretty much anyone else, the commentary would be more sympathetic.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
61. I also assume it discharged during the motion and not while
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:35 PM
Oct 2021

he pointed the gun for fun at a person and then pulled the trigger. But even if that was the case (which would be bad), there should have never been live ammo in a gun on set. That's where it all starts and ends. People like to quote those 4 rules of gun safety but they have no meaning on a movie set. In movies, people aim guns at other people, pull the trigger all the time and they don't have to worry about those rules at all.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
64. I've seen reports that they are careful that no one is in the way of a potential blank discharge,
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:42 PM
Oct 2021

in terms of aiming (one of the armorer's duties is supposedly to help set up scenes and direction for maximum safety) but I think these were meant to be dummies and not blanks--and no one who works on a film set would ever conceive that there was an actual bullet mixed in with fakes in a gun, from everything I've read.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
70. Gun was loaded with dummies (not blanks) and one live ammo.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:00 PM
Oct 2021

Dummies are harmless (of course if they are actually dummies).

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
66. Some people are willing to
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:52 PM
Oct 2021

Throw the book at Mr. Baldwin. Some are willing to excuse him for any and all liability because he's Alec Baldwin.

Some other actors might be viewed more sympathetically but I could name several that 'we' would be demanding their immediate arrest and prosecution with life imprisonment.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
74. Well, I think I could be fair no matter who the actor involved was.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:04 PM
Oct 2021

As far as I'm concerned, it's the professional roles involved in this incident that determine liability here, not the actual people in them--were the various professionals upholding the normal standards and behavior for their respective jobs? and if not, did that lead to the shooting? Unless someone intentionally did something wrong, of course, then it's a different ballgame.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
82. None
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:54 PM
Oct 2021

I wouldn't demand that of any, no matter how much or little I like them. I prefer to wait for the facts.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
71. To be negligent, one doesn't have to intentionally point a gun at someone.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:01 PM
Oct 2021

I don't think Baldwin will be charged, it will be called an accident IMHO, but I believe the evidence supports the idea he and others were negligent. That a number of people, yet to be determined, did not follow simple, widely accepted safety procedures.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
75. I don't know that the evidence yet supports he was negligent as an actor unless his
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:12 PM
Oct 2021

conduct deviated SIGNIFICANTLY from what was expected of him when the incident occurred. Meaning, let's say, it's standard for actors to unload a gun to examine the dummies before handling the gun, and he didn't do that. Or, maybe it's standard for actors to wait for the armorer to show them the dummies or blanks or an empty chamber, whatever's called for, as a backup check--and he didn't do that. Now, there may be shared liability in terms of the producer role, will have to wait and see with that.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
77. Standard safety rules apply everywhere.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:24 PM
Oct 2021

If Baldwin didn't know the rules and wasn't trained on them, he should have been under the immediate supervision of someone who was.

No one who handles a gun is exempt but the rules aren't codified and there is a difference between negligence and criminal negligence. I believe Baldwin and others were negligent but it's not for me to say anyone was criminally negligent.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
78. He WAS under the supervision of someone who was trained on the use of guns on
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:33 PM
Oct 2021

a movie set--at least two other people, the armorer and the Assistant Director--both were tasked with ensuring the safety of the gun he handled. If the ultimate responsibility for safety is on actors on any set, that would be pretty crazy, since they're... actors. They're not focused on studying each fake bullet they're handed to see if it poses a danger, and they're not the final arbiter on what's safe and what's not in terms of setting up a scene, angle of gun aim, loading etc.. Otherwise why bother with an armorer or props person? And no, I don't think the standard safety rules apply here, because the gun wasn't being used as a gun, to potentially kill someone.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
80. The safety rules are simple as heck
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:44 PM
Oct 2021

1.Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.

2.Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.

3.Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.

4.Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

Given the thousands of needless tragedies that occur every year because of simple negligence, I would assume most every adult in the US would be aware of how dangerous guns are. All who may have a gun in their hand at sometime need to earn the rules and follow them.

Then there is this:

"INDUSTRY WIDE LABOR-MANAGEMENT SAFETY COMMITTEE
SAFETY BULLETIN #1
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF
"BLANK AMMUNITION"
BLANKS CAN KILL. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS THOUGH THEY ARE LOADED.
"LIVE AMMUNITION" IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO
LOT OR STAGE.

These guidelines are intended to give recommendations on the safe handling, use, and
storage of firearms. Firearms include prop guns, rubber guns, plastic guns, non-guns,
flintlock guns, pistols, machine guns, rifles, and shotguns that shoot "Blank
Ammunition." "

https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01FIREARMS.pdf

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
81. Right, and that's why an actor would never think there's an actual bullet in
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 05:53 PM
Oct 2021

a gun that somebody hands him. That would be unheard of. Again, we don't yet have evidence that Baldwin did anything wrong in his specific role as actor.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
84. The very fact he had the gun in hand that killed one and wounded another proves it.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 06:25 PM
Oct 2021

Actor or not, people need to realize guns are dangerous and need to be treated as such.

Hopefully, others will learn from this and act accordingly. Either decide to not ever handle a gun or get the proper training.

Baldwin, as an actor, did not, IMO, violate any laws but he did violate basic safety rules. And so did others.

haele

(12,647 posts)
85. He pointed it at the camera because that was how the shot was supposed to go.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 06:52 PM
Oct 2021

This was during practice or blocking for the scene. He was supposed to be pointing at the camera. The victims were only behind the camera at that moment to determine the best shot for that scene. When filming began, they would be safely out of the way.
If the AD called cold gun, Baldwin's gun was supposed to have dummy rounds (just the casing) so it would look real for the test, and probably loaded with blanks for the actual shoot so it would have the proper flash and smoke. I had a lot of friends who worked as extras in Hollywood back in the day, when safety protocols were actually less safe. I spent some time on location as an extra when they needed crowds, and even then, the AD would announce cold (dummy/inert bullets) or hot (blanks loaded) when a firearm was brought on the set.

A live round would look just like a dummy in a replica colt revolver, so the problem was with whomever loaded the gun, period.

Haele

Crepuscular

(1,057 posts)
96. He did more than point it at the camera
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:08 PM
Oct 2021

In addition to pointing it at the camera, where three people were standing, he also cocked the revolver and then pulled the trigger.

This was a single action revolver. I own several of this model and I'm very familiar with how they work. Even if there is a live bullet in every chamber, when you pull the trigger, nothing happens.

You have to pull back the hammer manually, which rotates the cylinder, between every shot.

In addition, these hammers have 2 - 3 intermediate stages between the hammer being down (uncocked) and the hammer pulled all the way back, where it's ready to fire.

Pull the hammer partway back (one click) and you can rotate the cylinder manually, to check if each cylinder is loaded. If you pull the trigger at that point, nothing happens, the hammer is blocked from falling on the cartridge. This single action revolver also have a half cock position (two clicks). At that point, the hammer is still blocked if you pull the trigger, nothing happens. It's from where the phrase "don't go off have cocked" comes from, as it's essentially in a safe position and can't fire.

In order for the gun to fire, the hammer has to be pulled back all the way to the fully cocked position and then the trigger has to be pulled. That has to happen in order for the pistol to discharge and someone get shot.

I know that many will ignore these facts and simply give Baldwin a pass, assuming that he is just an actor and was following directions but when exploring possible negligence, it's important to look at all the facts and it is a fact that for the DP to be killed, it required Baldwin pointing the gun at her, cocking the hammer and then pulling the trigger.

I'm not suggesting that he did it intentionally at all, I'm sure that he was doing it just to practice how he would do it when the scene was being shot but the fact is that doing so in the direction of other people on the set violated safety protocols (never pointing a firearm at somebody, never cocking the weapon and pulling the trigger unless it's safe to do so and you are ready to fire it) and those actions resulted in a death.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
97. He was camera blocking a scene in a movie.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:42 PM
Oct 2021

There's no intent. It doesn't matter that he pulled the trigger or whatever other spaghetti the Trump bitter tears crew is trying to throw against the wall. This is going to come down to whomever put a real bullet in that gun because that's intent. My money is on the AD and the script supervisor witnessed that or something else material to his guilt. Watch.

Crepuscular

(1,057 posts)
98. ...
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 10:51 PM
Oct 2021

There does not have to be intent for there to negligence resulting in involuntary manslaughter.

It does matter that he cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger, because that is the immediate act that resulted in the death of the DP.

You are assuming that putting the live cartridge in the pistol was intentional, when it was most likely an accident. Does the person who brought a live cartridge on the set share in the culpability? Sure but the actions of the AD and of Baldwin also contributed to her death, regardless of which political party they support.

You can go down the road of a conspiracy theory, I'll stick with Occam razor and the likelihood that poor safety conditions, lax attention to the rules and ignoring standard safety protocols were the driving force behind this accident.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
99. Sorry, Alec Baldwin with criminal charges isn't going to be in your Christmas stocking this year.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 11:19 PM
Oct 2021

Whoever put real bullets in that gun knew they weren't supposed to do that. Baldwin pulling g a trigger during rehearsal had no intention of harm. He may be liable civilly but he is not catching a criminal case.

Crepuscular

(1,057 posts)
105. ...
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 09:39 AM
Oct 2021

You seem to have this bizarre conception that intent is some kind of iron clad defense against criminal liability. "Well I didn't mean for this to happen" is not going to prevent charges if someone acted in a negligent manner.

The most likely scenario is that one of the crew was messing around with the gun, shooting at tin cans during down time and forgot to unload it when they returned it. Stupid but I doubt that they intended for someone to get hurt or killed.

Then the armorer likely didn't check the pistol properly when getting it ready for the scene. Again, stupid and incompetent but I'm pretty sure she didn't intend for someone to get hurt.

Then the AD took the gun, without checking it properly and inaccurately described it as a cold gun, when handing it to Baldwin. Incompetent, hasty, un-professional but again, I doubt he intended that someone would get shot.

In that scenario, there would have been no intent on anyone's part to cause harm but that does not relieve them of potential criminal liability for their actions, if they are deemed to be negligent and to have broken safety protocols.

The same holds true for Baldwin, he doesn't get an automatic pass because he didn't intend to shoot and kill someone, that's not how the legal system works.

Whether or not the DA decides to prosecute someone and who, remains to be seen, there was plenty of negligent behavior occurring on that set, it appears and Baldwin is certainly one of those potentially criminally liable for this death.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
108. What's that old Dusty Springfield song? Wishin' and hopin'?
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 01:54 PM
Oct 2021

Ghoulish but it is Halloween after all:
[link:http://

|

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
59. There is no statement like this from her.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:28 PM
Oct 2021

What she says is she has no clue how live ammo got on the set.

Response to LisaL (Reply #59)

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
65. It's whomever used the gun for target practice at lunch.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 04:51 PM
Oct 2021

My guess is it's the assistant director. There are 11 producers on this film. I'm uncertain how the civil liability will be spread around. The script supervisor witnessed something. She hired Gloria Allred. The line producer is responsible for the set. Baldwin is not the line producer.

WarGamer

(12,436 posts)
89. My theory...
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:39 PM
Oct 2021

The gun was used for target practice or brought from home by SOMEONE. It was reloaded with blanks (forensic exam showed 5 blanks in the killer gun and one spent live round) and someone just miscounted counting to 6, putting only 5 blanks inside instead of 6.

And the gun was never properly checked before it was handed to Baldwin.

Low budget set, the professional crew had already walked off... half ass operation.

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
92. It was not brought from home.
Fri Oct 29, 2021, 07:43 PM
Oct 2021

It was an old fashioned revolver. When not in use on the set, it was kept in the locked safe (per the same armorer).

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
102. From the yahoo news article, witness blames the AD, not the armorer.
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 02:11 AM
Oct 2021
We need some help," Mamie Mitchell told the operator, according to the released 911 call. "Our director and our camerawoman have been shot."

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins died after actor Alec Baldwin discharged a prop firearm loaded with a "live round" Thursday while filming at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, New Mexico. Director Joel Souza was injured.

In the audio, Mitchell can be heard blaming the film's assistant director.

"This fucking AD that yelled at me at lunch asking about revisions, this motherfucker," Mitchell says, appearing to be in conversation with someone who was not on the call. "He's supposed to check the guns. He's responsible for what happened."

"I was sitting, we were rehearsing, and it went off," Mitchell told the operator. "And I ran out."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rust-script-supervisor-said-911-172635430.html

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
109. That's not an either/or
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 01:54 PM
Oct 2021

The AD is supposed to coordinate all on-set safety, and he had absolutely no business handing someone a firearm and announcing it was a "cold gun" without first checking to make sure that was true. He fucked up in the most negligent way possible.

But that in no way absolves the armorer.

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
107. She was responsible for custody of the gun. End of story.
Sat Oct 30, 2021, 01:48 PM
Oct 2021

That's her entire job.

She keeps physical custody of the weapons when they're not being used.

Before they're used in a take, she is responsible for checking them for safety, loading them if necessary, then transferring them to the actor.

During the take, she's responsible for supervising them and making sure they don't leave her sight. An actor or crew member wandering away with one of the weapons is a big no-no.

After the take, she is responsible for regaining custody of the weapons, checking them again for safety, then securing them.

The whole point of these procedures is to ensure that the guns never become dangerous, either accidentally or through deliberate action. A live round should not be able to get into one of them, even if there is a crew member deliberately trying to put it there.

If there's a whodunnit murder mystery brewing, it's entirely her fault. And the moronic AD should share her fate.

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