Happy starving Northern Europeans getting saved by the Wampanoags and then getting wiped out day.

[Botany]

This tribe helped the Pilgrims survive for their first Thanksgiving. They still regret it 400 years later.

Long marginalized and misrepresented in U.S. history, the Wampanoags are bracing for the 400th anniversary of the first Pilgrim Thanksgiving in 1621


https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/11/04/thanksgiving-anniversary-wampanoag-indians-pilgrims/

Long marginalized and misrepresented in the American story, the Wampanoags are braced for what’s coming this month as the country marks the 400th anniversary of the first Thanksgiving between the Pilgrims and Indians.

But the actual history of what happened in 1621 bears little resemblance to what most Americans are taught in grade school, historians say. There was likely no turkey served. There were no feathered headdresses worn. And, initially, there was no effort by the Pilgrims to invite the Wampanoags to the feast they’d made possible.

snip

For the Wampanoags and many other American Indians, the fourth Thursday in November is considered a day of mourning, not a day of celebration.

Because while the Wampanoags did help the Pilgrims survive, their support was followed by years of a slow, unfolding genocide of their people and the taking of their land.

[cilla4progress]

1. Excellent podcast.

So glad consciousness is being raised about this - FINALLY!!!!!

We still have much to learn from Indigenous people. I believe they are they key to humanity's survival on this planet.

[moose65]

2. The whole Thanksgiving myth is an odd one

People seem to believe that the Pilgrims started a tradition that continues to this day. They didn’t. They had ONE harvest festival in 1621. That was it. And it was pretty much forgotten for 200 years.

The modern Thanksgiving stems from the civil war, when President Lincoln declared a day of Thanksgiving. The Pilgrims had nothing to do with it, and in fact weren’t even part of the Thanksgiving story until the late 1800’s.

The Pilgrims didn’t slaughter Indians, though. That was the Puritans from Massachusetts Bay colony, later on.

[NullTuples]

8. I've read elsewhere that it was indeed celebrated prior to the Civil War, but primarily in the North

What Lincoln strove to do was re-market it as a holiday to help unify the North and South after the war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/how-lincoln-redefined-thanksgiving-and-christmas/620800/

[moose65]

30. Well, yes

There were occasional “Thanksgivings” over the years, but Lincoln made it official, I guess. The Pilgrim myth really started with some businessmen in Plymouth, who wanted to cash in on the Pilgrim legend. Kinda like how Betsy Ross’s family invented a whole myth about her!

Maybe it’s time to redefine the Pilgrims. They landed first at Provincetown, before crossing Cape Cod Bay to settle in Plymouth. Wouldn’t it be a hoot to associate the Pilgrims with P-town, the gay mecca of Cape Cod? 😆😆

[BlueSky3]

3. I understand the reason for

this being a day of mourning. But we also need a day of Thanksgiving to express appreciation for whatever blessings we have in life. Maybe we should move the day and declare a different holiday. I don’t know.

[Cobalt Violet]

6. Stop teaching school children a big lie would be helpful.

Nothing wrong with being thankful for what we have. Indigenous people did that long before any settlers arrive. Pretty preposterous to teach that thankfulness started with colonization.

Teach the truth and not a story full of lies. Those lies are excruciatingly painful and need to stop. There is no valid reason to be teaching that myth.

[NullTuples]

9. That's why Republicans are currently taking over school boards & meetings.

And why if they regain control education will be forcibly shifted toward vouchers and private schools.

[HUAJIAO]

11. Why do we NEED a "need a day of Thanksgiving?"

Why not just "express appreciation for whatever blessings we have in life' every day?

[BlueSky3]

17. For people with families

it’s a chance to get together. Some will use the opportunity to argue politics with each other and a few may be genuinely happy to have a holiday celebration together.

I used to have a client who would send out cards not on Christmas, but on Thanksgiving, to express thanks for what anyone had done for him that year.

For people who live alone or don’t have much family or an unhappy family or are simply very introverted, it’s just a hassle.

Despite all that, I still kind of like the idea of a « gratitude » day.

[IronLionZion]

21. Here's the War on Thanksgiving

[HUAJIAO]

23. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLO

[3Hotdogs]

4. Squanto's story. Captured as a slave and sold as a slave to Spanish "owner."

He escaped to England and found his way back to 'America.

His son was Prince Phillip of the Prince Phillip Wars against the English.

[stopdiggin]

18. King Phillip was a Wampanoag chief. Son of

a previous Wampanoag chief, different tribe and no relation. (in fact Squanto had no living relations, which is one of the few things known of him). Squanto was another historical figure - most likely of a different, and by that time extinct, tribe - and something of a lost soul, homeless and without family or connection. That lack of family, tribe or connection is really (along with the, miserably hard won, facility with the English language) the central point of his narrative. And it seems, understandably enough given the times and dynamic, that he was never fully embraced (or trusted) by either side of the Pilgrim settler/native interaction. With suggestion on some parts there was reason for this - Squanto, having no solid allegiances to either side, using his position as interpreter and 'middle man' to play one party off against the other. The other, equally plausible suggestion - is that, in that position, he was conveniently scapegoated by either side for any (inevitable) unhappiness, misgivings or misunderstandings that arose during their interactions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacomet

(and sorry for the nit-pick)

[Klaralven]

28. There was contact with Europeans prior to the Pilgrims, as Squanto's story demonstrates

In fact, Portuguese fishermen may have visited the coast and offshore islands, such as the Isle of Shoals before 1492. It seems that fishermen were acquainted with the cod fishery of the Grand Banks, and they occasionally ventured further west.

[IronLionZion]

5. No good deed goes unpunished

save someone's life and they kill you later.

[NullTuples]

10. "...because it is my nature" said the scorpion as they both drowned.

[Grasswire2]

20. see post above

The Pilgrims didn't kill the natives. The Puritans who came later did.

My ninth gr grandmother, Elizabeth Tilley, was a young girl who came with her family to the New World on the Mayflower. She was orphaned the first winter during the deadly illnesses caused by the extreme weather. I'm glad that someone who knew how to grow food and preserve it was kind enough to share that knowledge with a growing girl. The essence of kindness is giving help with no expectation of return. Humanity at its best. That was the impulse of the Wampanoag.

[Kaleva]

7. Versions of Thanksgiving is celebrated around the world

Back to ancient times.

a link to interesting info on Thanksgiving and Christmas:

"How Lincoln Turned Regional Holidays Into National Celebrations
The president used Thanksgiving and Christmas to reunite a divided country."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/how-lincoln-redefined-thanksgiving-and-christmas/620800/

[efhmc]

13. I believe a general day of thanksgiving is a good thing but not the american mythical one.

[Kaleva]

16. Yes

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. One of the more fascinting stories I've read from this time was the diary of Mary Rowlandson, kidnap

kidnapped by the Wampanoag and eventually traded back to her husband for a bag of tobacco.

The text is filled with Puritanical fervor but still a fascinating read if you look between the lines.

[efhmc]

14. How and where does one find this book?

TY

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Hard to find, I originally read an excerpt in the Norton Anthology of American Literature but Here!

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/851/851-h/851-h.htm

Enjoy!

[RobinA]

19. Can't We Just

enjoy a good meal with family and friends if we want without larding it with political meaning? My family celebrates Christmas and we're all a bunch of atheists. It has whatever meaning we decide it give it. Do people really take the whole Thanksgiving thing so literally?

[Botany]

22. I did not mean my post in any way to cast bad feelings about yours or anybody else's holiday ...

.... get together. My son, his wife, and their daughter are coming into town this
Saturday and that is when we will get together as a family. I'm making the bird,
mashed potatoes, stuffing, and gravy as my son and I watch OSU vs U of M and then
we will meet at my mom's house for the meal.

I just found the article interesting.

[Cobalt Violet]

25. some people are so frail....

They can't handle anything but feel-good myths.

[Cobalt Violet]

24. NO.

[moose65]

31. Yes, we can

I seriously doubt that most people who get together to overeat and watch football even think about the Pilgrims! It’s only these culture warriors who politicize everything 😃

[CrackityJones75]

27. I really don't give a shit

I really don’t give a shit about what the story was about what happened way back. I get together with loved ones, have a good meal, have a good time. Fuck me is that not a good thing?

Let’s just do that and screw all the other bullshit.

[Raine]

29. EXACTLY! 👍 nt

[sarisataka]

32. Our Thanksgiving included Native Americans

From my wife's side of the family. No discussion of politics since we are all Democrats. No angst over history, we are thankful for just all being together today. One person beat cancer another survived two heart surgeries and four of us had Covid with no major problems.

We did have wild rice dressing and a traditional squash dish- both were delicious.