My friend is highly educated, an attorney. And yes, a Blue State.

[no_hypocrisy]

I respect her intelligence and problem-solving skills.

But she refuses to get vaccinated, period. One of her reasons is that she also doesn't get a yearly flu shot.

She claims that she doesn't know what's in the vaccine, whether it works, whether it will trigger her asthma, etc. (And inexplicably, she watches Fox "News" and finds it credible. She believes it gives her information/facts that MM refuses to share.) Yeah, she wears a mask and believes that's all she needs for protection. She's even defending in court individuals who face getting fired because they also refuse to be vaccinated but they care for vulnerable individuals (e.g., caregivers in a convent). And she loathes Anthony Fauci, and thinks he's a charlatan who has/had financial interests in the lab in Wuhan, China.

Her teenage niece has been just the opposite regarding Covid. She refused to go to a classroom until she could get vaccinated. Took 2-3 showers a day in an effort to convince herself that she was "healthy".

With the new variant that is supposed to be highly more contagious than the original and Delta variants, my friend is still ready to accept the risk of infection. I know on some level she understands that once she contracts Covid, she has to finish the journey so to speak.

[Frustratedlady]

1. Those people blow my mind. I have relatives who are even taking that horse worm med.

They are professional health providers including a dentist.

I just heard that one remedy is for people to roll in dirt...they'd get nutrients from the soil that would beat Covid. When I hear crap like that, I picture a bunch of people sitting around trying to come up with the most bizarre remedies and then laughing their heads off at the thought someone would be dumb enough to use them.

I hope that some day, some one will be able to explain this phenomena. No one I've talked to has a clue.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Yes, it reminds me of this book: Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science (Popular Science)

Nearly 65 years after original publication.

https://www.amazon.com/Fads-Fallacies-Name-Science-Popular/dp/0486203948

[Frustratedlady]

3. Nearly 65 years after publication?

I guess I can hang up my idea of eventually finding out what type of person can come up with those crazy ideas. Sounds like we've had those ideas around for a long, long time.

As for rolling in the soil to get benefits from the nutrients...they surely suggested wetting it down to make it more absorbent. They may end up getting worms, but then they have a remedy for that, as well.

[jaxexpat]

6. "They may end up getting worms, but then they have a remedy for that, as well," well yeahuh!

INVERMECTIN, duh!

As a former agriculture professional, I can aver it's a scientific fact that nematodes can degrade root function. Just saying.

OP had me until "FOX.....finds it credible". It was then that I knew he took home a skunk when he was a child and his mom just couldn't bear to tell him it wasn't a kitty.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. They were always with us. Now they have internet megaphones to attract suckers. . . . nt

[Joinfortmill]

34. How about "drinking the cool-aid"? It's as good as any

Intelligence doesn't always convert to good decision making.

[TNNurse]

4. I do not respect the "intelligence"

of someone who acts like this.

Did she get childhood vaccines??? Is she old enough to have avoided polio? Does she take medicines? Does she know everything that is in her asthma treatments??

Sorry, but picking and choosing like this is not intelligent. More people have survived with the vaccine, but 800,000 have died miserable deaths without it.

People who refuse to take a vaccine against an highly communicable disease and risk the chance of infecting and killing others are not good people.

And she thinks Fox is "credible". I would stay away, she is dangerous.

Sorry to rant but another day of necessary involvement with other people including PT and wearing a mask and hoping it is enough has worn on me. I have taken every shot available, I will take more. I have cancelled plans and not seen distant family for years now, because of stubborn ignorance. I am tired. I am 72, I feel vulnerable. I survived cancer, I do not want to die from this.

[COL Mustard]

20. My Analogy Is

That if you won't get a vaccine or wear a mask, you aren't a heroic resister, or a "freedom" fighter or anything like that. You're like a drunk driver, not giving a shit about anyone else that you may harm or kill by your lack of thought. You're right, they are not good people. I have several in my family who are like that. I won't see them this Christmas.

[oldsoftie]

42. The ones who had a "mild case" are the WORST.

They think that since THEY didnt have a problem, then its not really a problem for anyone else.
I hate to admit it, but i have a list of people who just need to get a case bad enough to put them in a scary spot for a few days. Then maybe they will speak out differently. The difference between Chris Christy & Trump; both had it, but Christy comes out immediately after hospital stay and tells everyone "This shits for real. Dont mess with it". Trump acts like nothing happened.
And to be honest, if trump had treated it differently he may well have been elected

[COL Mustard]

63. I Know What You Mean

My sister had a mild case in about November of last year, and she's said ever since that she has a medical exemption from getting vaccinated. Her antibodies told her so. She's a rabid anti-vaxxer and anti-masker, and she got her medical education from the Facebook Medical School with continuing education from the Google School of Higher Learning. Her whole family is like that. I just can't be bothered with trying to have a conversation with them about it anymore. I'd be better off talking to the horse that's getting Ivermectin for an actual approved condition.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. Amen. Aside from questionable true intelligence, to me it demonstrates a lack

of empathy toward fellow human beings.

[DeeDeeNY]

45. Exactly right

I agree completely. This person never developed critical thinking skills. Book learning does not translate to intelligence.

[twodogsbarking]

5. I have a friend who is genius level.

He says intelligence is over-rated. You decide.

[RobinA]

23. My Take

Intelligence is overrated because we have some very wrong ideas about intelligence. People seem to think that "intelligence" means making right decisions, having the right opinions, doing things that are good and not harmful to themselves or society. Because, well, the person is so SMART, why would they do something obviously harmful, which we generally consider to be "stupid."

I see intelligence as being kind of like potential energy. It can be, and usually is, used in many ways, for good or for evil. Intelligence says nothing about the actual intelligent person, who still has all the human baggage of any ordinary human, plus his own baggage. Intelligence mitigates little of this. You can have a genius level person who is stone sociopath. Is he doing nice, correct things because he is smart and sees the advantages to that behavior? Not for a moment. He's off using his intelligence to advance his own nefarious agenda. So lets not equate intelligence with right-thinking. It never has been and never will be.

[BlueSky3]

35. +1,000

I think there are other types of intelligence that don’t show up on an IQ test. Like emotional intelligence. But those with high IQs may not have it.

[sammythecat]

37. +1

[chia]

38. Well said

[twodogsbarking]

40. Well put. May Santa find you and reward you.

[The Wizard]

7. Your friend is trained

not highly educated. See Cardinal Newman's "The Idea of the University."

[Irish_Dem]

17. Yes this friend is not educated. Obviously never taken basic science classes.

She has no idea how science research is conducted.
Or how to find out if something is safe for her.
Like asking her health care professionals.

[Beachnutt]

8. Tell her to use the trump anal uv lighted

buttplug and to be sure and use ivermectin for lube if she has any covid symptoms.

[Celerity]

43. The Trumpy Glow-worm. Your fellow pasters will be positively (sooner or later) green with envy.

uv lighted buttplug

[Tetrachloride]

9. My aunts are in the high risk category

Tell the attorney that all of the elderly people in her family may die or suffer permanent lung damage. Where walking up and down the stairs makes one gasp for breath.

[hlthe2b]

10. I'm sorry--for YOU. This won't end well, even if they've been lucky to date.

There are many uneducated people who can read and educate themselves from good sources or at least listen to reputable sources (and be able to differentiate). Then there are so-called "highly educated and 'intelligent'" people who one wonders how they put their shoes on in the morning. Your friend appears closer to the latter. It is sad. But then, look at RFK, JR, who infuriates, saddens, frustrates, and shocks me at his inability to understand basic science nor listen to those who can.

[Joinfortmill]

33. Yup

[multigraincracker]

11. The best idea is to let them pay their own hospital bills.

After all those hospitals use that evil science stuff.

[Beachnutt]

14. Best idea yet

[Mary in S. Carolina]

19. Yes - it is always about money

[IronLionZion]

27. Hospitals will pump them full of all sorts of drugs

and these patients would have no idea what's in them or even question it.

[Sherman A1]

32. Agreed

If that was to happen, they would be running to the nearest CVS begging for all the shots and a few extra boosters as well.

[snowybirdie]

12. There's a big

difference between being highly educated and intelligence. This woman doesn't seem to have gained one of them. So tired of these fools.

[Whiskeytide]

13. Cipollo's 2nd Universal Law of Human Stupidity ...

… is: The probability that a certain person be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

That includes things like education level and profession.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[Irish_Dem]

15. I guess none of us should consult attorneys since we don't know how the law works.

And we don't know possible side effects of following their legal advice.

[crim son]

16. My ex husband has a PHD in physics

and is brilliant in many respects, and numb as can be in others. He didn't get vaccinated, got Covid and gave it to his 95 year old mother. He was fine; she was hospitalized and released but at her age, her body has sustained a blow that will definitely make fewer the days she has left on this earth.

[Beachnutt]

18. Big insurance companies should

deny coverage for antivaxxers who spread disease and get hospitalized.

[LittleGirl]

22. So she's been treated for asthma

But doesn’t know what’s in the vaccine? She’s brainwashed from Fox spews.
Your friend is not intelligent but willfully ignorant.

Next time she has an asthma attack, she should just stay home and treat herself at home since she’s knows it all.

Say goodbye and good luck.

[pwb]

25. So she is a Puke?

You didn't mention her politics but she watches Fox News. Welcome to the fuck that old friend world.

[Woodwizard]

26. My daughter had the same attitude.

She works with a lot of antivax coworkers then she got it. We gave her an ultimatum after she recovered get vaccinated or loose us doing childcare she got her first shot and got a breakthrough case most likely from a co worker she now has her second and is completely onboard with the vaccine.

Her managers mother in law died from it 3 weeks after getting it in August 52 years old, suddenly they started taking it seriously. For some its just an abstraction until it happens to them.

I have no patience for antivax morons.

[Baitball Blogger]

28. She may live in a blue state, but she isn't a progressive.

You said she is intelligent and she watches FoxNews. You said she was a lawyer. What does she think of them now that we know how they were intentionally misinforming the public at the time of the Insurrection?

[Aviation Pro]

29. Does she moonlight as an immunologist?

No? Then she’s another example of successful individuals who thinks their primary skill sets transfer to another.

But hey, Fucks Noise I guess is a source of credible information for “research.”

[Quakerfriend]

30. I have two of these in my family, as well

Always looking for a reason to doubt what I tell them- i spent 35 years working as a clinician and doing research for the NIH.

I also took care of Covid patients until I retired last year.

In some ways I think it’s just the stubborn refusal to admit they’re wrong

[Joinfortmill]

31. Somewhere along the way, she sipped the cool-aid. So sorry.

[Tracer]

36. My daughter is a "refusenik" on the flu vaccine.

However she has taken the 2-shot COVID vax and has an appointment next week for the booster.

I have given up on trying to get her to get the flu shot. Her answer is always the same: "I've never had the flu and probably won't get it".

[bangs head on desk]

[RobinA]

57. I'm A Flu Shot

refusenik who had no problem with getting the COVID vaccine plus booster. Two different animals. The flu shot is a harder sell if you don't get the flu much or at all and everybody you know who's a flu shot regular gets the flu every year anyway. And no, I'm not saying they get the flu from the flu shot, I saying it doesn't work very well.

[Jimbo S]

61. Same here

I haven't had the flu since 1986, so I never have gotten the flu shot. Only got one in Fall 2020 on the advice of my primary, if I got sick it could be surmised it was COVID and not flu.

[Happy Hoosier]

39. I hope when she gets the Omi that it doesn't wreck her health, but...

if it does, she'll have no one to blame but herself.

[Midnight Writer]

41. My best friend, who was an aerospace engineer, was the same. He died of Covid.

Left behind an elderly wife and a disabled son he was supporting.

I will never know what got into him.

When we were young, he was a good-natured hippy, laughed at everything.

Last time I saw him, he was in a lather over Obama, who was a Muslim sleeper agent that was imposing Sharia law.

I just can't get over it.

[Marthe48]

44. I have asthma

and other underlying respiratory ailments. I got the Moderna vaccine and the booster. I had no ill effects.

I don't know your friend, but she's got a blind spot.

[LaMouffette]

46. Fox News viewers baffle me. The overall tone is so mean-spirited and so lacking in warmth, humanity,

kindness, and genuine humor. Each host exudes this harsh, belittling snarky-ness that makes me feel the kind of sick feeling you get when you see a bunch of mean kids ganging up to pick on a vulnerable kid at school.

And their viewers enjoy this?

Compare the cold, angry tone of Laura Ingraham to the warm, gentle tone of our beloved Rachel Maddow. Fox viewers want to cozy up to that?! Yeesh!

[PTWB]

47. Just because someone is educated doesn't mean they're intelligent.

And lots of very intelligent people never had the opportunity to get a higher education.

Your friend, unfortunately, sounds like the typical mush-brained conspiracy theorist. I wouldn't be friends with someone who thinks those things about vaccines, Fauci and Fox News.

[Septua]

48. ".. she watches Fox "News" and finds it credible."

I know intelligent people who accept Fox as a credible source of information. And one of those is an educated lawyer who worked for the Federal Government and thinks Biden is evil. He told me that after I said Trump is evil, which he doesn't accept.

So much for intelligence...

In life IMO, common sense is king and probably varies in proportion to IQ but is not necessarily guaranteed by IQ. When someone questions the vaccine efficacy or what's in it or it's potential negative side effects etc, in light of all the statistics that debunk any doubts, they are simply looking for a premise that supports an illogical argument to defend an illogical belief.

[Aristus]

49. God, I hate that "I don't need a flu shot; I never get the flu" outlook.

When patients tell me that, I respond: “Do you also think you’ll never die, because you’ve never died before?”

[3catwoman3]

50. What a superb rejoinder!

What kind of responses do you get?

From reading many of your clinical stories, it sounds like you are somewhat more free to call people out on their poor choices than I was in my job. Parents can be very touchy if they think you are being critical of their actions. I was a master of understatement.

[Aristus]

53. Parents are the worst.

They’re the reason why I don’t see pediatric patients anymore.

Before I instituted my moratorium on pedes patients, I used to try to reason with anti-vaxx parents. After a while, if I walked into the exam room for a well-child check, and the loony-tunes parent said “Can you sign this vaccine exemption?”, I would just turn around and walk back out.

Why give them and their putrid beliefs the oxygen?

[3catwoman3]

54. Still want to know - what do your patients say in response to your...

...riposte about "haven't died yet?"

[Aristus]

55. Most of them agree to get immunized after that.

There are always the hard-core few who refuse after every objection has been overcome, but they usually don’t come back.

[maxsolomon]

51. Oh, well.

I'm beyond caring about fate of the unvaccinated.

[3catwoman3]

52. A high school friend posted this - well said.

I feel fortunate to have been able to have the booster vaccine and be part of the administration process.
No, I don't know "what's in it". Neither this vaccine or the ones I had as a child. Nor do I know what's in the 11 secret herbs and spices at KFC.

I also don't know exactly what's in Ibuprofen or any other painkiller-- they just treat my headaches & my pains.

I don't know what is every ingredient in my soap, shampoo or deodorants. I don’t know the long term effect of mobile phone use, or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods and washed their hands.

There's a lot of things I don't know.

I do know one thing: life is short. Very short. And I, personally, still want to do things. I want to travel and hug people without fear, and find a little feeling of life "before".

Throughout my life I've been vaccinated against many diseases. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, chickenpox, hepatitis, pneumonia, influenza, rotavirus, tetanus, pertussis. We trusted the science, and never had to suffer through or transmit any of those said diseases.

I'm vaccinated. Not to please the government. Not to make other people do it. But I don't want to:
* die from Covid-19
* clutter a hospital bed if I get sick
* not be able to hug my loved ones
* have to test routinely
* live my life in fear

I can’t say it any clearer.

[oldsoftie]

64. My response to the "faith over fear" people:

"So you're saying all the people who have died or been seriously damaged from Covid had it coming because its was "their time"? Or did those people not have ENOUGH faith? If you have a heart attack or appendicitis, will you tough it out at home because you have "faith?"
They dont like it or i get the cop-out; "Thats different"

[live love laugh]

56. Intelligence and education do not go hand in hand.

Brian Wms.:

“… men and women … possessing the kinds of college degrees I can only dream of have decided to join the mob…”

[Demsrule86]

58. She watches Fox News...so she is an 'educated righty'. It is not hard to understand.

[traitorsgalore]

59. Well then, using your best intelligent sounding voice tell her she's a variant breeding plague rat

and she's threat to all humanity. People like her disgust me, they're filthy disease spreaders.

[Initech]

60. These are the people who are so infuriating to me.

They know better, but they listen to idiots on Fox News and the Fox propaganda sphere convinces them that nothing bad can happen to them. It's not just "the olds" who are getting this thing. And those people who don't think it can't happen to them, well it absolutely could, and spending the last four months analyzing the propaganda circulating around Facebook on r/HermanCainAwards, no one of any age group is spared.

We're all going to get it, and that's inevitable at this point.The question is do you want a mild cough or do you want to go to the ICU and die? I know which one I would choose. It's horrifying what the propaganda sphere is doing to people, they have become a full blown death cult at this point.

[BannonsLiver]

62. Your friend is an idiot.

[mnhtnbb]

65. Attorneys are usually risk averse. It's odd that your friend

is unable to apply her critical thinking skills and knowledge (of law) to decisions about her personal health. She's willing to take on a tremendous risk and disregard the knowledge and skills of highly educated medical professionals in favor of her uninformed opinion.

I have asthma, too. It's one reason I was anxious to get vaccinated as soon as possible (last February/March) and got my Moderna booster before Thanksgiving.

I don't get flu shots, most years. I have my reasons. I had flu twice in the late '80's, early '90's, where I have never been so sick. I begged my OB to admit me and give me IV fluids the time when I was pregnant because I was so dehydrated I feared it would bring on early labor. The nurse who stuck me for the IV told me that my veins were like those of an 80 year old woman because they were so collapsed. I was 38. The second time I had another horrible case of the flu, but OTC meds were adequate and I wasn't in fear of losing a pregnancy.

Since then I've never had a bad case of flu and I've only rarely gotten flu shots.

COVID is VERY different from the flu. If your friend doesn't understand that, she's either ignorant or in huge denial. Either way, she's playing a high stakes game, given her at risk situation with asthma. Have you asked her whether her Will is up to date and she's completed a health care directive?

[no_hypocrisy]

66. I know . . . .

1. I don't understand her compartmentalizing Covid and the vaccine.
2. She had an asthmatic reaction (allegedly) to a flu shot and illogically assumes the same with happen with a Covid vaccine.
3. As she's aligned with FOX, she isn't getting alternative information.
4. She IS in huge denial.
5. Yes, her Will, Medical Directive, etc. are up-to-date.
6. Otherwise, she is a terrific strategist for litigation, not so much for herself.

[mnhtnbb]

67. I thought I had a mild allergic reaction to my second Moderna dose.

Turned out to be nothing. I've had an anaphylactic reaction to contrast dye. So I know how scary that can be. And I'm very tuned in to my body and how it responds.

So, I checked with my primary doc about getting the booster and went into her office, just in case I had an allergic reaction. Nothing, zip, nada. Maybe that was because the Moderna booster is only a half dose.

Your friend should consult with her allergist, or primary doc, or whatever health care professional is writing Rx for her asthma meds about getting vaccinated for Covid. Do you think you could make a case for that with her?

[no_hypocrisy]

68. No, I can tell she's far gone.

She has a passion in her iterations, angry/rage.