POLL: Come on DU'ers. VOTE - Permanent Daylight Savings or Permanent Standard Time??

[TeamProg]

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)

In Calif, I personally do not need the evening to be light until almost 9pm in summer.

I'd also rather get the morning started soon after the sun comes up.

Nationwide I think the split is about 50/50.

What do we have here?

Thank you for your participation!

148 votes, 11 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Permanent Standard Time (just changed from)
	66 (45%)
	Permanent Daylight Savings Time (just changed to)
	82 (55%)
	11 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[TeamProg]

1. Please K&R to get the widest response! Thanks

[leftieNanner]

2. I think

It's either daylight savings time or standard time. No "daylight" in standard.

[TeamProg]

3. Hmm, In Calif, we have Pacific Standard or Pacific Daylight. that's how I'm used to phrasing either.

You might be right though!

[TeamProg]

10. Fixed! I was surprised that I was able to edit a poll question.. n/t

[Demovictory9]

51. yes, you can edit after people start voting

[marybourg]

4. "Standard Time" or "Daylight Savings Time"

[TeamProg]

6. Fixed!

[lagomorph777]

75. Please edit your subject line too - it's confusing.

[question everything]

5. It is unfortunate that representatives from northern states are in the minority

In the Twin Cities, not even in Northern Minnesota, sunrise in November December is close to 8:00 am!

Keeping daylight saving time year around will mean it will be 9:00 am.

[TeamProg]

8. Yeah, that's no good! Rubio and Sinema lead the bill's vote.. n/t

[herding cats]

19. Same in Texas, we're in the same time zone. It will be 8:29 on December 31st before the sun rises.

December 1st is 8:11 am. I feel like I'm going to be commuting in the dark even more.

[wnylib]

44. I remember hearing the rationale

for standard time in winter being that children should not be going to school in the dark.

Personally, the clock changes don't bother me. A one hour change twice a year is not enough to upset me. I do appreciate the extra hour of sunlight in the evening during the summer and would enjoy it in winter. But, if I had to send young children off to school in the dark, I am sure I would see it differently.

OTOH, children and parents do seem to manage in higher latitudes where days are even shorter than in the lowerer 48. What do Alaskans do in winter when it is dark most of the time?

[Mariana]

45. What do Alaskans do in winter when it is dark most of the time?

The kids go off to school in the dark, that's what they do.

[wnylib]

55. Yes, that's my point. If they can handle it,

I guess we could, too.

[Mariana]

58. It'll be interesting when the polls come out, to see who opposes this.

Will it be the parents of young children who don't like it, or will it mostly be older people? Maybe both, or maybe neither. We shall see.

[lagomorph777]

77. Yeah - no fun getting up hours before sunrise in the winter.

That's the coldest time of day.

[niyad]

7. . . .

[caraher]

9. if you want "more daylight" just shift business/school hours earlier

I prefer Standard Time as closer to true solar time. I think it's worse for schoolchildren to use daylight time as they go to school too early in the day as it is, and just taking daylight time as the default further locks in that mismatch between when their bodies want to be awake and alert and when they're expected to perform in school.

[BigmanPigman]

48. As a former teacher I couldn't agree more.

My students and I were zombies every morning. I am not a morning person and never have been and when I became a teacher I was miserable with the ridiculous hours. I never went to Elementary School at 7 AM, we went at 9 AM. But of course back then there were a lot of stay at home moms who didn't need to drop kids off at school before going to work yourself. And now with all of the long commutes and bad traffic, dropping kids off has become a nightmare in its self. Rescheduling needs to be made but it is a constant headache. Some parents must drop their kids off at 6AM and the schools now have to accommodate that early influx as well as departures after 5PM. Schools have become babysitters.

[smirkymonkey]

59. I agree. As I child I found it torture to get out of bed each morning and have never really

changed. Since I didn't drink coffee or tea at such a young age, I was completly out of it for the first few hours of the day and our parents made us go to be by around 7:30 - 8pm every night, so it wasn't that we weren't getting enough sleep.

I sometimes think that this debate is really just natural morning people vs. natural afternoon/night people. I have felt put out my entire life by not being a morning person, but always having to fit into a "morning person" society. It's most of the reason I can't wait to retire.

[caraher]

73. With the young, there's a lot of research to the effect that there are no "morning people"

And our wake/sleep cycles are regulated by light. We cannot persuade the sun to rise at a different (natural) time to conform to acts of Congress!

[msfiddlestix]

11. ✔️

[Hekate]

12. It's a delusion. You don't get more hours in the day, and the seasons just keep on going...

More dark in the winter and more light in the summer, gradually changing every day. Just recognize there are “time zones” for a reason, pick one system, and stick to that system.

[question everything]

15. Northern states should not have to wait to 9:00 am for sunrise if daylight savings is year around

[Hekate]

20. What does that even mean? You can control the Earth's seasonal changes?

Do they play these delusional games with clocks in Norway?

[question everything]

26. Yes, they do. In Norway. Meaning that they keep standard time in December.

Would not matter if we would start our days around sunrise but as long as many start around 7:00 AM, having sunrise at 9:00 will make it harder and set many prone to accidents.

And I agree with the OP that having sunset at 9:00 PM is not that important. I also think that we have long abandoned the notion that we really are saving anything.

[herding cats]

24. Everyone in the central time zone, top to bottom, has the same issue.

I'm using your Minnesota reference from above here. It's not a northern/southern thing, it's a time zone thing. The sun moves East to West as do time zones.

Eastern, central, mountain and pacific zones are all impacted equally per their zones.

[question everything]

31. Now I am curious so I compared Minneapolis to St. Louis

On Dec. 31st 2022 Sunrise in Minneapolis will be 7:51.

In St. Louis it will be 7:18. I think that this is significant.

By the way, I am sure you know that after the winter solstice the days are getting longer in the evenings, sunset moves up, while sunrise continue to get late until January 10.

[herding cats]

35. Yes, we vary from Eastern to Western position.

It varies by minutes, but we vary due to our geographic location East to West.

I begin counting down the days after winter solstice. I, too, hate being in the dark.

[Cosmocat]

57. 100% personal preference

In my view, living in a northern state, I hate, with a passion, it getting dark at or even before 5 pm for several months a year.

[GoCubsGo]

64. THANK YOU!!!!

The number of daylight hours doesn't change. Just the clock does. Today, where I live, there will be 12 hours of daylight. Moving the clock ahead or back an hour doesn't change.that. It will remain 12 hours, regardless of what the clock says.

I'm with you, Hekate. Just pick one and stay with it.

[In It to Win It]

13. I always preferred Standard Time

[question everything]

14. I sent emailed my member of Congress asking to vote no on permanent daylight savings

I wonder whether individual states can choose. I think that some states - Indiana? - do not change to daylight savings.

[radical noodle]

30. Indiana stayed on the same year round

until Mitch Daniels became governor. For the first year or so Daniels allowed each county to decide what time to be on and some people were living on one time and working in another. It was a nightmare, but then Mitch Daniels was a nightmare as a governor.

To make it extra confusing, twelve counties in Indiana are on Central Time and the rest are on Eastern time.

[Polybius]

84. Looks like none of them listened

It was unanimous.

[question everything]

91. Oh, I sent to the House member; they have not voted yet

Still curious about the Senate: al. 100 of them? no one out of town?

[Demovictory9]

16. i dont know!!!!

[LogicFirst]

17. Don't care. Arizona does not change.

[TeamProg]

18. What are you on in relation to PDT ?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

29. Arizona is Pacific Daylight now

[Hekate]

21. Hawai'i doesn't change either. If I want to call anyone there it's up to me to remember if ...

… I have to subtract two hours or three hours from California time.

[GoCubsGo]

63. I have family in Arizona.

It's a pain in the ass to remember when it's a 2 hour difference or 3.

[wackadoo wabbit]

42. I'm in Arizona, and I definitely do care

When DST occurs, we're only 2 hours behind the east coast, not 3. As a Certified Night Owl®, I hate having to get up "early" to call businesses that are only open until 5 east coast time.

[Darwins_Retriever]

62. Except the Native American territories

They do have DST. So in Arizona you have both.

[Meowmee]

22. I'm not sure which would be best for people like me

I want the twice a year abrupt and unnatural changes to stop. It disrupts my already fragile sleep patterns and other health issues so I never get any normalcy. And my schedule is earlier in the spring. I have always hated the changes and morning schedules since I was a child even then when I slept very easily and well.


Schedules should be adjusted accordingly to get the best possible amounts of light at the good times. Stop trying to force everyone to be a morning creature. Many already work on different shifts.

I was just starting to adjust to my early schedule and now I’ve had little and terrible crazy sleep times starting before it started and after. Only 3 hours sleep today. And for years I usually sleep the biophasic patterns with the second sleep since having severe insomnia starting in my 20’s.



My fav time was Isle of Skye in summer sunrise at 5:30- 6:30 am usually and sunset at 10-11pm, fantastic for a nocturnal person. Of course that is only in summer sadly. The only time I used to naturally get up early is on vacation. Now I never do anything in the early am due to bg crashes unless it is an emergency or unavoidable, or I have been up all night working which happens a lot.

[Talitha]

23. I voted for Standard... 'high noon' should be at noon - not 1pm, ya know?

Aside from that, DST affects my telescope time. At 45.5 degrees north latitude, it's a bit difficult to do anything in the summer because the NW sky is still baby blue at 10:30 or 11pm. I'm retired and my time is (finally) my own, but still...

(I know it's a minor complaint but I'm pushing 70 and deserve to bitch about stuff once in a while. )

[Patterson]

25. The way we've been doing it for decades is fine.

[relayerbob]

27. Stay as it was

Wait until next winter, people will be complaining - we've been there and done that already. People need to not dwell on the time change, then it wouldn't bother them. Just go to bed a little early one night a year. (the "fall back" is easy) Sheesh.

[C Moon]

28. Perm DLST, otherwise the sun comes up at 4:30 AM in the summer.

Perm DLST will save energy.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

32. NO! NO! NO! I live in northeastern Michigan.

The damn sun doesn't set until 9:15 in June. Make it standard time year-round!

[RainCaster]

34. I live in northern WA, the sun is set by 4:30 in Jan

I would rather have the sun go down later.

[Celerity]

49. Try Sweden. You would freaking out in the summers here, when the sun barely sets at all,

and we are in Stockholm, far south of the northern third to quarter where they get almost no sun in winter and no sunset for a month plus in summer.

DST on a perm basis is a large desire of ours, I am so sick of it being dark by 13 00, 14 00, 15 00 in the late fall and early winter.

Darkness when I wake up in the winter? I truly could not care less.

We are still on Standard time now (we switch to DST 2 weeks later than the US) so now the sun is starting to rise before 5am, yet it's still cold AF. Worst of both worlds.

[radical noodle]

33. I don't care which people pick

I just want to be at the same time year-round. I hate the time changes.

[TrogL]

36. Up North here we need all the sunlight we can get

[Mr.Bill]

38. Changing or not changing the clocks

will not change the amount of sunlight you get on any given day.

[TrogL]

39. It changes the amount in afternoon when I'm outside

[Demsrule86]

71. Exactly, It surprises me that some here don't get that extending daylight savings time would

save energy...I saw a few yesterday who favored nuclear energy ( I do not) but don't want to extend daylight savings time permanently...go figure.

[question everything]

82. DSL does not significantly save energy

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/money-verify/no-daylight-saving-time-does-not-significantly-save-electricity-in-the-us/536-84ba50d0-1018-4c04-8310-80b9739820be

[Kali]

37. one of the few things Arizona does right

we don't fuck around with clocks twice per year. just pick some arbitrary human time marker and stick with it! jeez. the day starts when it gets light and ends when it gets dark.

[GoCubsGo]

65. Yes!

No twice-a-year increases in accidents, heart attacks, etc., either, I'm betting.

[Mr.Bill]

40. There is a compromise that would work,

but we would really need to get the rest of the world to agree with it. The next time we change the clocks, just move them a half an hour then leave it that way.

[tapper]

41. Hot summers - garden early

I voted for standard time — I’d rather have early morning light for working outside when it’s relatively cool, than gardening in the evening.

[mvd]

43. I'm a night owl

For me, it’s always so hard to go forward when Daylight Savings comes. That outweighs the longer light in the evening for me.

[Salviati]

46. I voted for DST, but I think it should be up to each state to decide

[BigmanPigman]

47. My sister and I discussed this and we are now both retired

so we like it lighter at night but when I was a teacher I appreciated light in the AM since kids (and me) are zombies until 9 AM.

I think it has a lot to do if you are working and if you have a commute. If you are retired or working from home you may have different needs/desires.

[burrowowl]

50. Standard is more ecological

Big biz promotes it but it burns more energy for keeping things like golf courses open, Acs run longer (reason why Arizona keeps MST all year long), not good for construction workers in hotter climes since less cooler AM hours and longer PM hours when heat is up, etc.

[SeattleVet]

52. I'd prefer that everyone just go by UTC and eliminate all the confusion.

One time standard for all, and don't worry so much about what how the hours are numbered.

[diane in sf]

53. I want it light late as possible when I drive home from work. The commute home is

more hazardous in general and daylight makes it less dangerous. Also I’m a night owl and have not much use for early hours, light or dark.

[shanti]

54. Really, just pick one! n/t

[Owl]

56. Neither. Spring ahead, Fall back; perfect as is.

[Demsrule86]

70. Nope. I want daylight savings time in November and December...I hate getting up in the dark,

driving to work in the dark and driving home in the dark...huge amounts of Seasonal disorder around here.

[question everything]

80. Daylight saving time in Nov and Dec will give you sunrise close to 9:00 am!

Standard time these months will "fall back" to 8:00 am.

[Polybius]

85. I think you mean that you want Standard Time in November

Because that would have sunrise at almost 8:00 AM.

[ecstatic]

60. Whichever one keeps it dark until 7:30a/8a

I'm a night owl but I have vision issues when it comes to driving after dark. Lol

[smirkymonkey]

61. I think it would be interesting to see what people's opinions are regarding this question

paired with their geographical location, as it tends to have more of an impact both ways in far northern states (early afternoon dark winters, light evening spring/summer/early fall).

Also, as I have noticed in a poll I did in the lounge a few days ago, whether one is a morning person or a night owl (or even just a "later in the day" person) has a big impact on people's opinions on this.

[TeamProg]

72. There was this same type of poll in the Lounge?

Oooops I missed that.

[DemocraticPatriot]

66. K & R

[MineralMan]

67. Don't care. Just stick with one or the other.

[Demsrule86]

69. Daylight saving time all year round for me...it is dark in Ohio by 4:30 in December...it sucks.

I want the extra hour of light.

[lagomorph777]

74. Getting up in the dark sucks.

[we can do it]

76. Then we need to get rid of winter.

[lagomorph777]

79. I guess that's as do-able as pretending we can "save" daylight.

But seriously, do we need to make people get up way before dawn in the winter? It's the coldest time of day.

[Tommy Carcetti]

78. Put me down for being in favor of the biannual time change.

Maybe I'm in the minority but whatever.

[edhopper]

81. Standard

I don't need 8:30 sunsets in summer and don't like 3:30 sunsets in winter.

[Polybius]

83. I find it weird that you don't want to have light until 8:30

That's not a good thing to you? Summer nights are magical, partially because of 8:30 nights.

[TeamProg]

86. Because I end working on the property til late and then dinner is waaaaay late. n/t

[Polybius]

89. But you will be out of work the same time regardless

Let's say that you work till 7:00 PM. You're still getting out at 7:00 whether we have DST or Standard Time. Unless...

You work not based on time, but until the sun goes down. Then, I completely understand your issues with DST.

[moondust]

87. Don't really care.

Maybe it would help to study energy usage of one vs. the other to see if either has an advantage. Also maybe consider preferences of outdoor workers such as farmers, contruction workers, landscaping, etc. Maybe other factors.

[TeamProg]

88. Agreed, it should be based on energy usage, health and safety. n/t

[marie999]

90. We have to get up with our animals and birds, so EST or EDT doesn't matter.