General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe lack of civility in this country has risen to the level of international embarrassment
broadcast around the world on live television at the Oscars last night.
It's been going on for years now. 'Karens' rudely confronting people of color, or gay, or speaking a language other than English. Racists or misogynists or elder abusers hitting people on the street, pushing people off subway platforms into oncoming trains. MAGATs hurling insults at people for being in favor of various civil rights. Stalking and killing physicians who provide abortions.
Last night was a symptom of the disease that has infected our society. The joke Chris Rock told last night at Jada Pinkett Smith's expense would have been ok if she had told it on herself. If she'd said, 'don't I look like I could play the next GI Jane?', it would have been funny. But that isn't what happened. Instead, Rock insulted her, and instead of Will Smith inviting Chris Rock to take it outside or meet him at dawn with pistols as he would have in days gone by, he just immediately acted on his anger.
What happened last night was a tragedy and represented a true fall from grace. On a night when Will Smith was recognized by his peers for his performance in a film as being the best from any leading actor in any other film all year, he chose to let his anger destroy the beauty of that moment. That is a true tragedy.
It's a symptom of the breakdown of our society. We have lost our ability to react reasonably to any kind of slight or to tolerate people with whom we disagree. Frankly, I don't see how we are going to come back from this and that represents a national tragedy.
CurtEastPoint
(18,549 posts)Fucker. He opened the floodgates to rudeness and hatred.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)to Liza Minnelli. Any other time, that would have been the story.
But the actions of this pathetic, wee, insecure man managed to overshadow all the people who should have been the real news.
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)What a wonderful woman she must be. And Liza is a true legend.
What a contrast to the sad and childish behavior of earlier in the evening.
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)They were fabulous together.
Cabaret is one of my favorite films. I went to see Liza Minnelli in concert at the Universal Amphitheatre in the '80's when I was living in L.A. What a show she put on. Fabulous.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Wow, how lucky you are to have seen Liza in concert!
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)moonscape
(4,664 posts)was out sick and Liza Minelli stood in for her in Chicago in 1975 when I was living in Manhattan and got to see her. Fantastic, memorable performance!
1WorldHope
(675 posts)Unfair. It may have been pathetic moment in Will Smith's life, but it should not define him as a human. You don't know him.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)He showed who he is last night.
Im older than Will Smith and somehow have managed to live all this time without feeling the need to sucker punch/slap anyone. Ever.
happy feet
(856 posts)I read this is the 2nd time Chris made a joke of Jada's bald hair coupled with the fact of thewir 'strange' marriage which has made them the joke/gossip of Hollywood for a long time. I think lots was going on with Will inside and he lost it after seeing look on Jada's face.
Before others jump on me. IN NO WAY AM I CONDONING WILL SLAPPING CHRIS. Au contraire, WILL WAS WRONG TO SLAP CHRIS and it took away from the recognition of others the rest of the night.
Just showing some empathy towards Will who is known as a 'good' egg in general. Good people do 'bad' things sometimes and bad people do 'good' things sometimes. It's unfair to judge one's overall character from a single event vs. totality.
My respect for Chris went up last night (I also like Chris Rock) in the way he handled it and continued on with his responsibilities rather than stooping to the low of Will's actions.
old as dirt
(1,972 posts)Traildogbob
(8,566 posts)Of a full swing slap to that arrogant mug. God I hate that ass deep in my bones, in every individual cell of my marrow. He is a pure DUNK! A combo of a Dick and a C word without using that disgusting word. A pure fucking DUNK!
heckles65
(544 posts)was pretty mild. Be linked Demi Moore at the height of her career? Is that really so bad?
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)and presumably she's not ready to laugh at her situation. So unless she makes the joke about herself, it is bad. Try substituting some other unwanted disfigurement or disability and see how it plays.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)Do you think if she had worn a wig, she would of been the only one in the room?
She created a pod cast to talk about their open marriage so I dont think she is as delicate as folks are portraying her to be.
Rebl2
(13,301 posts)to be a strong woman. Doesnt give someone the right to joke about her alopecia in front of millions of people. Just like tfg had no right to make fun of a reporters disability.
ecstatic
(32,566 posts)had no idea what alopecia means. Not everyone is caught up in celebrity news/gossip.
pinkstarburst
(1,320 posts)Just like you would not expect to see a child who is bald.
Anyone who is not howl at the moon stupid understands that when you encounter a bald woman or child, there is usually a reason for it, and it is not a happy reason.
Cancer. Alopecia.
So you don't crack a joke.
Just like you don't see someone in a wheelchair and say are you just sitting there for fun?
Unless you're just really stupid.
Who knows. Maybe Chris Rock is just that dense.
But I do not write someone a pass for not having been expressly told about a medical condition when anyone should have been able to infer that sort of thing because women and children are not usually bald.
ecstatic
(32,566 posts)It's fairly common in my community. And because soooo many wigs are stylish and easily available (and are regularly worn by both women with no hair and women with hair down to their butt), there's almost no link between diseases and wearing no hair/very little hair. Just offering a different perspective, I know things are different in other communities or parts of the country.
ripcord
(5,081 posts)If things keep going like this maybe we can bring back freak shows to really entertain the masses, they can laugh at all kinds of conditions and deformities.
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)tinrobot
(10,848 posts)It's been happening for a long time. Nothing new here.
Boomerproud
(7,888 posts)Traildogbob
(8,566 posts)That shows how classless it is. Both men crossed a line.
Response to heckles65 (Reply #4)
old as dirt This message was self-deleted by its author.
Metro135
(359 posts)would he make a chemotherapy joke?
Ms. Smith's condition must have caused her a good deal of stress and most likely continues to do so. That said, her husband's behavior was inexcusable, a textbook example of a populace that must act out and cannot control its emotions. Will Smith should have taken Rock aside after the Oscars and, to make his anger known, should have relayed it to the media in no uncertain terms. What he did was show anyone watching that violence was acceptable as a way to express your feelings. It is not.
Irish_Dem
(45,619 posts)Chainfire
(17,305 posts)It has been carefully nurtured since at least the beginning of Rush Limbaugh. I remember his hate filled rants from the mid 90s. Trump was just the crowning achievement, the voice of power and authority that normalized idiocy and meanness. At least, I hope that he was the crowning achievement. Who knows? We may come to a time where we look back at Trump with longing...
I look around our country today and hope that it is me that has gone mad and that the country is still rational, practical and run by honest, hardworking national servants who have our best interests at heart. Maybe DU is a figment of my demented imagination...it is either that or the rest of you are somewhat crazy too! Perhaps the right has been right all along.
You lock the lock and throw away the key,
There's someone in my head but its not me.
Jetheels
(991 posts)For everyone to see. And showed that he could get away with it. With anything.
He brought the bottom to the top.
Tumbulu
(6,267 posts)I have a farm and I just never want to leave it. I fear that things will get worse and hope with every cell in my being that I am wrong.
And it started with Limbaugh. And just got amped up by him and his buds over the decades.
FakeNoose
(32,328 posts)In my mind, it started with him. However the obvious point is that all the rude bullies have been Repukes.
Every single one.
IbogaProject
(2,692 posts)She was wearing a green ball gown that went all the way up to her neck like a uniform would, and he may have had a slot in his prepared notes to find one outfit or such to make an on the spot joke. It's likely Chris hadn't done his research and didn't know the health reason for her short hair. I believe it was an off the cuff add-lib. I am biased as I like Chris's work much better.
cab67
(2,962 posts)Theres zero chance he didnt know the back story.
I like his work, too, but that was a serious lapse in judgment. He mocked someone for her medical condition. He should acknowledge this.
Im not, in any way, condoning Will Smiths actions. I think they should both be ashamed of themselves.
IbogaProject
(2,692 posts)I have a theory that Mr Smith had said to Chris that if he ever mocked his wife he'd slap him and they had a back and forth. Therefore when he went up Chris knew he'd get slapped and didn't avoid it. Nothing else really explains the situation as well.
Snackshack
(2,540 posts)Smith was way out of line and should be held accountable. What we saw last night is the same thing we saw during the 2016 campaign rallies where a candidate was openly telling attendees to assault others and that he would pay for the lawyer fee.
Kaleva
(36,145 posts)But apparently not as bad as one man slapping another on tv.
mnhtnbb
(31,316 posts)and was thinking about film in relationship to our origin story yesterday. TCM showed Gone With the Wind at 4 pm Eastern, and it was still playing as all the celebrities were arriving on the Red Carpet. Hattie McDaniel was the first Black person to win an Academy Award for her role as Mammy in GWTW. Lupita Nyong'o was sitting right behind the Smiths. She won an award for her role in 12 Years a Slave several years ago, which told quite a different story about slavery than the nostalgic, romanticized version of GWTW.
And then last night, before Will Smith wins for his role as the father of Venus and Serena Williams, he goes and changes the focus of the entire evening by assaulting another performer who makes an ill conceived joke about his wife.
Look at the distance the film industry has traveled from 1939 to 2021, from Gone With the Wind to King Richard. That should have been the focus last night, and instead it was lost because of the equivalent of a saloon fight, without the guns.
Jack-o-Lantern
(965 posts)that the punch was fake and never landed.Such buffoonery.
Anyway, who really cares.
Chakaconcarne
(2,385 posts)There was a lot of weight behind that slap.... No watering of the eyes, no discoloration in the cheek... recovery from Rock was immediate. Rock didn't act surprised.... Smith smirked as he turned around and had the look of someone who wasn't pissed... I think it was scripted, but Smith ad-libbed the cursing part and that is what drew silence and that is what the Academy is trying to address..... how they handle the messaging and aftermath.
Smith's wife did not look super pissed... she rolled her eyes.... Will Smith was initially laughing.... Rock didn't press charges....
I think it all adds up to a staged event.
sop
(9,945 posts)dwayneb
(766 posts)And then Smith's comments afterwards, tying his action to protect of his wife to the theme of King Richard.
Smells like a con job to me. We'll see.
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)blue sky at night
(3,242 posts)that's why they have them on the show. We had a saying when I was growing up...Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke! What a snowflake, I used to admire Will but after last night see above! Will just fucked himself royal and for once I couldn't care less.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)It's what Ted Cruz should have done to Donald Trump.
cab67
(2,962 posts)He mocked a woman for a medical condition that affects her appearance. It wasnt funny, and Rock should have walked it back the instant he saw the look on Jada Pinkett Smiths face.
Grumpy Old Guy
(3,120 posts)The concept of "political correctness" is something the right came up with as a means to excuse their bad behavior. According to them, treating people with respect was "politically correct," and something to be ridiculed.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)who perhaps is having a difficult time going through her disease. He simply saw it as cruel and hurtful to her, and instinctively reacted to defend and protect her. She obviously didnt like the joke. My view is that its best not to laugh at peoples maladies because its an extremely cruel thing to do in most circumstances.
Mr. Evil
(2,746 posts)be it that the joke may have been in poor taste (that's for each individual to decide), I'm afraid that all Will Smith accomplished is now anyone that is offended by a joke will physically attack the comedian in question.
He could've easily waited until after the bit or during the next commercial break and said, " Man, that wasn't really cool." I'm sure Chris Rock would've immediately apologized to him and Jada.
DET
(1,266 posts)That joke would have gone completely unnoticed if Will Smith had kept his cool. Personally, I had no idea that Smiths wife had alopecia, and Id never even heard of GI Jane. I suspect that most of the audience outside that room were equally uninformed.
Whatever we think of Chris Rocks joke, Wills behavior was completely uncalled for and is symptomatic of the increasing coarsening of our culture. Its also reflective of the its all about me mindset personified by Trump. Its especially unfortunate that it detracted from the incredibly touching interchange between the ever gracious lady Gaga and a schockingly frail Liza Minnelli.
KentuckyWoman
(6,666 posts)A few days ago we had one over who was next in line at the dollar store. 2 women decided to duke it out.
Honestly I can't tell if things are actually any worse or if the rude is just getting more visibility . I grew up in a day when adults could take it out on their children and spouses and most get away with it. It seemed like everyone had a bully to contend with but it was mostly under the radar. Society changing and social media have changed the dynamic.
From childhood I distinctly remember 2 ladies rolling about the shoe store snatching at each other's hair. My mother grabbed us and got us out of there. I had to put my shoes back on outside. There was certainly a lot of whispering about it but never on the news.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)LuckyCharms
(17,286 posts)pinkstarburst
(1,320 posts)The joke Chris Rock told last night at Jada Pinkett Smith's expense would have been ok if she had told it on herself. If she'd said, 'don't I look like I could play the next GI Jane?', it would have been funny.
Chris Rock told a nasty, misogynistic joke that demeaned Jada Pinkett Smith because of her medical condition.
It wasn't funny. Making fun of people with medical conditions, whether it's cancer, or alopecia, or Trump mocking a reporter with physical disabilities on TV isn't funny. It's also a symptom of the breakdown of society, as you put it.
The joke itself was as much a problem as Will Smith's reaction to the joke.
Neither part of what happened was okay. One does not excuse the other.
Both men behaved badly.
Tree Lady
(11,370 posts)and happily danced the night away. The tears showed he knew he did something wrong but the way he blew it off was like he was saying to the whole world oops sorry my bad its okay to hit someone in front of the whole world on live tv.
It wasn't' like a simple mistake where its okay to say I'm sorry. If Chris had chose to press charges he would have been criminally liable for what he did.
I personally think he snapped in fear of losing his wife when he saw how the joke affected her and was afraid she would say, you just let men talk about me like that!!
I have seen men rage and minutes later act as if they never have done a thing. It's very worrisome.