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Sun Apr 17, 2022, 05:00 PM

Bound, beaten, killed: Ukrainian civilians reveal horrors of Russian torture chamber

Special report: One prisoner recalls how a man was beaten to death next to him. Another recounts being stripped, stabbed and subjected to electric shocks. In recently liberated Trostyanets in Sumy, Bel Trew speaks to torture victims and uncovers fresh evidence of possible war crimes in northeast Ukraine


Blindfolded, arms and legs bound, and lying in the corner of the torture room, Dima could only hear his fellow prisoner scream and his ribs crack, as the man was beaten to death next to him.

The soldiers had grunted with exertion as they bound the prisoner – Kolya – into the “lastochka” or “swallow” position, an infamous torture method long favoured by Russian forces.

Dima remembers how Kolya, who had apparently denounced Moscow publicly, was subjected to particularly savage violence. Even after Kolya was dragged to the blood-stained room, he refused to stop cursing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, fuelling the relentless blows that rained down on him.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-torture-chamber-killing-murder-b2059421.html

Anyway, interesting article.

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Reply Bound, beaten, killed: Ukrainian civilians reveal horrors of Russian torture chamber (Original post)
Crunchy Frog Apr 2022 OP
COL Mustard Apr 2022 #1
Crunchy Frog Apr 2022 #2
COL Mustard Apr 2022 #4
WarGamer Apr 2022 #3
Igel Apr 2022 #5

Response to Crunchy Frog (Original post)

Sun Apr 17, 2022, 05:09 PM

1. I'm really close to hating all Russians

I know that isn't appropriate, and I know there are some who are opposed to Putin's war, but damn...they really seem like a savage people.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 17, 2022, 05:12 PM

2. I feel like I'm turning into a monster

where it concerns my thoughts and feelings about Russians. And I used to be a Russophile.

Anyway, happy Easter.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 17, 2022, 05:20 PM

4. I completely understand the feeling

I've met some Russians, eaten and drunk with them (to my regret the next day...long story) and I thought they were nice people. But I see things in the news today and I think they're all subhuman savages. I know they're not, and I know given free rein a lot of Americans would become beastly as well but damn it...this type of stuff is just awful. I hate the way they make me feel.

Anyway, Happy Easter to you as well!

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 17, 2022, 05:18 PM

3. Why?

Should Iraqis have HATED ALL AMERICANS because of Shrub's War Crimes?

I guaran-damn-tee you that if they (Russians) were presented with the reality of the war, and polled anonymously... they'd be 80% against the war.

Life is too short to be consumed by blind hatred.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 17, 2022, 07:33 PM

5. Consider Germans in WWII.

Rwanda in the 1990s.

I can't picture myself ever going to a hanging or a lynching for entertainment; the French would go to beheadings for fun.

Consider the Taliban. Or Saudis. Ponder the joys of the Chechens or what was done by ISIS. Or the Chinese in the Cultural Revolution, the Vietnamese in the reeducation camps, or Pol Pot's little party, (Note the sarcasm.)

There were all working class folk, no education, that led hard lives. Never underestimate the cruelty that can be covered by self-righteousness, whether "justice" or "revolution" or "religion." Hate finds justification--and hey, it's not us.

Russian culture was largely sidetracked and remained post-serf--it never got really all that "Enlightened" or liberal until the generation that hit middle school in 1991, but a lot of that went away by 2012. And even then a lot of places missed it. Then you have the "holy war" and "they're Nazis" and all the hate spewed by bitter men that their dreams and values aren't appreciated by many of their own countryfolk, coupled with the rejection of their "world" by other peoples. Like Ukraine.

Note that a lot of the brigades that have been identified come from the boonies in Russia.

Here's an oldie from maybe 15 years ago, "Predator" by a "liberal" band called "Mummiy Troll' with, as far as I can tell, Siberian-slacker phonology. Pro-environment, civil rights, peace--at least at the time.



Lyrics (can't do them side by side, so under each verse my translation ... violating copyright law, I'm sure, but all the online translations I saw blow).
Ты такой хищник
Все счеты сводишь лично
Сам себе считаешь
Сам себя решаешь
Всё было бы отлично
Но раны-то зияют
Так глубоко, что слезы
Чрез раны вытекают

You're that kind of predator
You settle scores personally
You add them up yourself
You decide them for yourself
Everything would be great--
But the wounds yawn so wide
that tears pour out through them.


Жаждою стремимы
Страстью полны мы
Эти клыки, Хищник
Режут нам сердце

We're driven by desire
We're full of passion ...
These fangs, Predator,
Cut us to the heart

Chorus:
Оставь нам любимых, оставь
Оставь их любить нас, оставь
Я зализал раны, поверь
Уходи, зверь!

Leave us those we love!
Leave them to love us!
I'd lick my wounds, believe me
Go away, beast.

Неуязвимый
В спину бьешь, невидимый
Вроде что обиженный
Только незнакомый совсем
Пойми, такой странный:
Мы все одной саванны
Только ты верил
Другим шаманам

Unable to be wounded,
You attack from behind, unseen
It's like we offended you,
But you're a complete stranger:
We're all from one savannah--
But you just believed
Different shamans.

(chorus)

Я готов руку
Подать тебе, Хищник
Если ты бы оставил ее
Мне хотя бы по локоть
Перегрызть одно горло
Можешь смело-достойно
Только кровь эта, Хищник
Не смывается боле

I'd give you my arm, Predator
If you'd leave it down to the elbow.
You can bravely and worthily
Chew through my throat,
But this blood, Predator,
Will never wash away.

(chorus)

The Russians against the war or at least questioning (since the media onslaught's pretty intense) are in hiding; those we hear are both louder and since they trigger outrage and spotlighted so they can trigger outrage. Consider *part* of what you see to be the reciprocal campaign--what Russia did to Ukrainians, many are doing to Russians. Avoid broad brushes.

Notice that Bush II is in this video. As many times as Putin is.

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