UPS blows goats. We're shredding the US Post Office for THIS shit???

[Systematic Chaos]

Pardon my venting tonight, but I'm just livid right now....

Funny, but I never have a problem with the US Post Office like I do with this asshat driver from UPS we always have.

Long story short, my wife, roommate and I live in an apartment complex in a relatively poor, high-crime part of Las Vegas, where anything not nailed down is subject to being walked away with in quite a hurry.

We are frequent customers of Amazon, where we can get a lot of non-perishable food items in bulk for an excellent price. These items are delivered by UPS. Our roommate is a disabled veteran who often receives shipments of medical supplies from the VA, also by UPS.

The UPS driver I'm talking about has delivered over 80% of our packages in the past 3 years. His method of delivery is to give a soft knock upon the door, drop our boxes in front of the door, and run back to his truck without waiting for an answer. I am not exaggerating in the least when I say that we've purposely waited in the front room for this guy to drop something off, and in the 10 seconds it took to get up from the dining table or couch to the front door the ignorant fuck was already out of sight. In the past 3 years, we have had a large box of gauze for our roommate's wound care disappear, as well as two other packages containing food items. Today, we lost a box containing four bags of Bob's Red Mill buckwheat pancake flour because my wife was at work, I was sleeping during the early afternoon and our roommate was either also sleeping or had his TV on. And I tried to stay awake until the driver came. I really did. But due to my disability my energy levels are all over the map and sometimes I can't keep my eyes open no matter what. This was one of those afternoons.

Thus, our 7th or 8th call to UPS with the same angry complaints about this useless driver, yet another call to Amazon to get a replacement package (our second time with them, and they're friendly and understanding -- as opposed to the VA which took forever to replace roommate's case of gauze to bandage his ulcerated leg). Yet another demand that they force this driver to either wait at the door and have us sign for the shit and not him, or to drop the stuff off at the front office where we can get it later.

In all this time I haven't had a single problem with any packages delivered by the Post Office. Not one. And there have been medical supplies and prescriptions sent for our roommate every month, without incident. Used video games from ebay, clothes, all kinds of things. Those things are put in a locked box, a key is waiting for us in our main mailbox, and just like that we have our stuff.

But hey! We're going to dismantle the Post Office and leave matters in the hands of these private dipshit corporations, because they're just so much better at what they do, you know?

[lonestarnot]

1. Over the top.

Hey have you ever heard of scrapitalism? Don't you know there are delivery time limits, understaffed, people doing some bonused freak's bidding, that are being watched? Why would you call this working person who you apparently don't personally know "the ignorant fuck." He obviously hasn't given you his time for that.

[Systematic Chaos]

3. I'll call him whatever I want, okay?

I guess I forgot to explain that the other 20% of deliveries not done by this driver to whom I'm referring are completed by someone who knocks loudly, waits at the door and allows a resident to sign for the package.

The 20% driver, not an ignorant fuck.

The 80% driver I'm complaining about, ignorant fuck and I will shout it from the rooftops, thank you kindly.

So don't tell me I'm over the top unless and until it's you who has lost some important medical supplies and have someone with open ulcers who can't properly bandage his wounded limb, or an expensive electronic item because it was carelessly left in a place where anyone could steal it.

[obamanut2012]

7. How do you know which driver delivers which box?

Especially the percentages?

I'm just curious.

I will say UPS drivers have certain metrics that have to hit, which is why they usually drop the package and run. They can even be forced for turning left instead of right. Some make good money and some don't, but it is a high-pressure job.

[Systematic Chaos]

10. As far as the percentages go, that's from long-term memory.

The 20% of the time drivers wait for us, it's been three different people. This according to corroboration with my wife.

The 80% guy always has the same MO. A knock you can't even hear unless you're in the front room, or you detect it because the cats all perk up, followed by the sound of the delivery truck being started up in the parking lot less than 30 seconds later.

One day my wife was outside by the front door with a couple of our cats and the driver walked up and just gave her a package. Didn't even have her sign for it then! She asked about it and he looked over his shoulder and said "nah, I got it," and that was that.

On top of this, there was a package just a month ago (a Kindle), which my wife called UPS and specifically requested that the package be noted as "deliver to apartment complex office." Despite that it was still put on our front door, was left out there for a significant chunk of time and thank goodness was not stolen.

I respect that these employees have to work quickly and sometimes in harsh outdoor conditions. But if they're just going to leave things out in the open so that you can't even get them to begin with, then honestly what is the fucking point?? What if nobody was home at all and we were all out? Would that change anything?

[Saving Hawaii]

18. Standard UPS policy is...

Apartment-style housing the driver needs to wait for the occupant to open the door and have them sign for it. Residential-style housing they just leave whatever it is on the porch and knock. They shouldn't be doing it any other way. Maybe the OP's apartment is a bit of a wobbler and the two drivers are treating it differently, I dunno. Maybe the driver is just lazy.

[Systematic Chaos]

21. In this complex, doors are crammed every which way.

I have about 12 neighbors within 40 feet of me and entrances are not private whatsoever. It's just walkways and doors.

[Saving Hawaii]

28. Then they should be knocking and waiting for you to sign.

That's UPS policy. Maybe the driver is under a lot of pressure to deliver quickly, but this does reek of laziness to me. Given your description he should be using the apartment policy and having you sign for the package.

I did a few days as a driver's helper over Christmas a few years ago. Basically grab packages and give them the ol' heave-ho at the door (kidding, set them down nicely). You sit in the passenger seat in the brown truck with a seatbelt on and the door wide open and run around all day. It's kind of fun. When we were going through apartment neighborhoods, I rarely got out of the truck though. The driver had to handle all of those deliveries because the occupant had to sign for them.

Like I said earlier, finding a way to communicate directly with the driver may resolve some of these issues too. They're under a lot of pressure to meet deadlines and are a little too hasty sometimes.

[NutmegYankee]

49. When I lived in an apt I routinely came home to packages leaning against the door.

It's not a well followed policy.

[Systematic Chaos]

16. Honey badger just stopped giving a shit.

You have a nice over-the-top night now.

[inna]

54. yep, over the top and uncalled for. K&R for your OP/thread, btw

[Systematic Chaos]

55. Thank you!

And just for the record, I didn't even bother alerting on that post.

After all, I'm one of the favorite punching bags over at "the cave," plus ten years of being everyone's worst enemy as a blackjack dealer, so I've got a pretty tough suit of armor.

But to whomever did alert, thank you.

[arcane1]

2. The Post Office doesn't have a profit motive

I know you know that, but your case demonstrates the difference. The ones who say the USPS is inefficient are merely saying that it doesn't turn a profit for some 3rd party.

Profit = waste!!!

[cyglet]

11. We make money for the feds

they know this and exploit this.

[LadyHawkAZ]

4. I hear ya loud and clear.

We have the same problem here, although our crime rate is not as bad here (if you're on the east side, I probably lived in your neighborhood at some point). FedEx knocks and waits, mailman knocks and waits, UPS dumps on the doorstep. Not cool

[Systematic Chaos]

5. We're a block from the UNLV campus.

There are decent people around here, but for every one of those you'll find a dozen derelicts. Some of our neighbors have been real prizes, let me tell ya!

[LadyHawkAZ]

9. Yep I lived in your neighborhood

on Flamingo, on Paradise and on Cambridge.

[underpants]

6. Two things : UPS costs and FedEx

I am not arguing with you but there are a few factors as to why you are getting this service.

UPS's biggest expense is gas. Time = gas, which is why they have routes laid out with no left hand turns unless it is impractical to have two trucks running in each direction on a road. Drivers are efficient as possible meaning in your case they don't stand at a door for 2 minutes when they don't expect an answer - they tend to notice if they think no one is home.

The reason the USPS is "in trouble" as said in the news is that the Republicans passed a measure in 2006 (I think) that they had to finance their healthcare cost for the next 75 years NOW. No one else has to do that and NO ONE could afford it. They had a $5 Billion bond due just last month. The reason is that they have a union presence and the Repubs are trying to bust it.

FedEx - founded by Fred Smith who signed up for military service along with his Yale buddies (Skull and Bones) John Kerry and Charles Pershing (grandson of BlackJack). Fred took the available cash to Vegas one weekend to cover payroll and actually was able to do it. Now the bad news -----almost all FedEx deliver people are not actually employees of FedEx. They are contractors who get pay and NO BENEFITS. They also don't have the same appearance standards (regular uniform, no tatoos visible, facial hair) as UPS. FedEx delivery people have NO BENEFITS - none. They are paid an hourly wage and they have to get the rest on their own.

The USPS is the cheapest and most efficient national postal system in the world. The Repubs are just trying to bust unions.

BTW - DHL is owned by the German Bundespost (post office) and were frozen out of shipping to US military operations by a joint venture by UPS and FedEx Political Action Committees....because who wants competition?

[cyglet]

17. 2006 is correct

and its real intent was to pay for the two unpaid for wars.

[underpants]

39. Okay

thanks I had not read about that factor.

[GoCubsGo]

44. I hadn't heard that one, either.

BTW, it was the pension fund, not their health care that they are forced to fund 75 years in advance.

[cyglet]

50. That's what we think, given that

(1) The pension fund is overpaid and they won't give the overpayment back
(2) The feds need the payment "for calculation of the deficit"
(3) The wars were basically off the books prior to Obama

[LadyHawkAZ]

24. I had forgotten DHL

I had one and only one experience with them, and it was bad enough to make me never want to use them again.

[rog]

8. There is a solution with UPS.

I have plenty of issues with UPS, most of which involve the glacial rate at which the shipments arrive. I just got some coffee (San Francisco to Wisconsin) that took over a week to get here.

BUT one cool thing that UPS does is that ... on their tracking page (just plug in the tracking number of your shipment) ... you can sign up to have a text message sent to your phone when the package arrives on your doorstep. As soon as the driver hits the "delivered" button on his computer the text message is sent to your cell phone. Cool. I've done this twice ... today was the second time ... and it worked flawlessly. You can also opt for an email notice instead, but the text message is so convenient. Happens instantly.

But that said, this place I get my coffee from used the Postal Service as their cheapest delivery option in the past, and they were GREAT. Now you can get USPS delivery, but it costs extra. UPS??? ... not that great.

But the text message notice is a very great thing. Check it out next time you get a shipment from Amazon.

.rog.

[Systematic Chaos]

15. Thanks for the tip, but sadly we can't afford cell phones.

We're hoping that with my wife's income that may change, but for now she has a very basic cell phone with only a handful of minutes per month which was provided while we were on the SNAP program before she started working again. The other two of us just have a basic landline through our cable service which doesn't even have free long distance.

[rog]

19. Yeah ... I know.

I only have my cell through a fluke, but it is a cool service.

I don't know if it would be convenient, but you can sign up to get an email, as an alternative ... same instantaneous thing.

If not, well ... we gave it a shot, anyhow. I know what you mean about UPS, though. The USPS took four days max for the same shipment. Order on Monday, here by Thursday.

.rog.

[Edweird]

20. There's also "hold for pickup" if their distribution center isn't too far away.

[Edweird]

12. It sounds like the problem is your neighbors, not the driver.

Of course, the fact that you were there but asleep and still blaming the driver is kind of odd.
I prefer UPS for packages - their tracking system is top notch. I make sure I am home - and awake - when my packages are due. I also have mailboxes that receive packages for me to retrieve at my convenience. The USPS tracking system sucks. I'm not in any way suggesting that the USPS should be done away with, but I don't like the way they handle packages and important stuff.

[Doremus]

31. Glad you're able to sit home for a day or two waiting for a pkg.

I'd guess most people don't have that luxury because they have to make a living outside the home during UPS delivery hours.

I own a retail business. We've shipped more than 20,000 packages in the past 10 years, 99.99% via USPS. We are offered large discounts to ship with UPS and FedEx but I would never switch. Those services are substandard in every meaningful way, most importantly breakage rate. USPS Priority is consistently on time and undamaged.

Conversely, when I'm the buyer, I appreciate the flexibility of having more than one delivery option: 1) a rented PO box, 2) my residence, or 3) hold at the PO for pickup. UPS has very little flexibility unless you have a friend or neighbor willing to stay at home and act as package broker. Our route driver is from the throw and run school and has more than once left expensive electronics in the front yard in the rain. This and similar WTF moments have made me swear off of companies who offer UPS-only shipping options.

[Edweird]

38. I've used all 3 options with UPS.

Furthermore, UPS tracking system is up to date. I know when UPS intends to deliver my package the moment they put it into their system.I know where it is, and how it's doing. The USPS tracking system is a day late and a dollar short. USPS gives you NO information until well after it's been delivered or whatever. I'm not anti-USPS, but their package and important document delivery system sucks. The USPS is the one that keeps me waiting for a package that may or may not arrive - I know what day it's coming with UPS. Hell, just knowing THAT it's actually going get here (and not in a dumpster) puts UPS head and shoulders above USPS. It's also swell that being reasonably confident that my UPS delivery won't arrive looking like it was used as wheel chock for a jumbo jet like it has with USPS. As a consumer, I avoid sellers that use USPS for shipping whenever possible.

[Doremus]

46. You'd probably have better luck convincing somebody who only gets a few pkgs/yr

As I said I ship thousands of pkgs annually so your anecdotes really are meaningless to me.

My opinions are based on track records from over a decade of direct experience. Yours aren't.

In any event, I don't think either of us is going to change our minds anytime soon so no use to continue beating a dead horse.

[Edweird]

47. I've had over 2 decades of 'direct experience'. You made statements that were completely wrong.

But hey, look in the bright side - I don't know what you sell, but if someone else sells it and uses UPS the odds of you ever dealing with me in real life are very small.

[Saving Hawaii]

13. Have you thought about leaving the driver a note on your door?

Something on a big sheet of paper written with a sharpie so that the words are easy to read from a distance and the whole thing is hard to miss? Maybe placed right about where he'd be knocking? Something real short and straightforward.

"Hey, could you knock louder and maybe wait a second? If we don't answer could you please leave the package at the front desk? If you leave it here it'll get stolen. I have health problems and sometimes don't hear you knocking so I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks, xxxxxx."

Two bucks says that when you call up UPS, they never even bother to mention what you're upset about with the driver. Corporate is a trainwreck with that company and communications aren't very good at all. If you can find a way to communicate directly with the driver, you might have better luck.

[Systematic Chaos]

25. Even though I don't like the idea because it just makes us look like idiots,

I guess it will have to come down to that. Although, UPS now claims as of our phone call to them tonight that all our deliveries are to be flagged to the office.

But we can go with a big-ass note on the front door from now on too.

Whatever it takes to stop getting ripped off and majorly inconvenienced with highly needed medical stuff.

[digonswine]

22. Fact is--

the USPS actually gets some of UPS's stuff to deliver. Most people who work for UPS don't even know it!
Also--the UPS guy that delivers out by me is a great guy/employee.

[cyglet]

26. Oh we know it all right

we get a lot of Amazon...whatever else UPS wants to send our way. Fedex does this, too.

In exchange I guess they fly mail for us.

[Nye Bevan]

23. You lost me when you referred to the UPS guy as an "ignorant fuck".,

If this is your attitude when dealing with working people I'm not surprised that you're still having problems.

[Systematic Chaos]

33. Maybe you should have read more of my post?

It's taken me nearly three years of endlessly repeating bullshit to get to the point where I called this guy an ignorant fuck on a message board. At the time I did it I was highly upset.

Don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that one anonymous web post with some strong language automatically makes the poster a complete asshole to everyone, all the time?

I assure you that normally I am a very pleasant and polite person, but pardon me for venting when we just lost our third package over the same ridiculous crap.

[Warpy]

27. That's what my UPS guy does if there's a car in the driveway

but that's OK. When the car is gone, they've gotten creative on me and it's been a case of "find the package." My last computer monitor stayed hidden for a week. At least none of the neighborhood thugz found it, either.

Still, the USPS guy comes up, rings the bell, and waits around to put it into my hand. If I had to keep one or the other, it would definitely be the USPS.

Republicans need to look very closely at their stupid hostility to the USPS and consider what doing themselves out of their franking privilege might do to their reelection chances.

[burrowowl]

30. And rural areas where UPS and Fedex

never venture!

Repukes suck

[alphafemale]

32. I Love my main UPS Driver.

One day I was behind him as he was leaving the neighborhood and saw him stop and get out of the truck and pick up some trash that was beside the road.

[bhikkhu]

34. If you knew more about how the company operates...

From what a UPS driver I know has said, of all the possible problems that would delay a package, the main one they lean on is the driver. Drivers are union and have the advantage of getting a hearing before they're fired, but the company records their every movement and keeps endless statistics on their performance. This is one of those companies that has GPS on every vehicle they own and tracks absolutely everything, and, yes, if the driver takes 6.9 seconds per stop instead of the company average of 5.4 second (or whatever it is), that is something that would come up in a review. The stress and misery level of the job has increased dramatically in the last few years, almost to the point that they seem to be deliberately forcing drivers to quit (cheapest for the company), and tightening rules and monitoring so much that anyone can be justifiably fired at any point, if the economics supports it.

Not to say you don't have a legitimate beef, and the point about how much better the USPS is at some things is certainly true, but I wouldn't take it out on the drivers.

[cyglet]

37. This is true.

I have heard this from other employees. They really are tracked and harassed to no end. A coworker who retired from us went to work there as a helper at Christmas and was reprimanded because he took too many seconds running packages from the truck to the house. I've also heard that they've changed the ratio of permanent employees to temp employees to rely more on the temps, and to minimize the impact of their union.

We are basically autonomous after sorting mail in the mornings. They might monitor us here and there, but nothing like that, and I hope it never becomes that. You don't need to endlessly track people, it's crystal clear who does their job and who doesn't...and everyone knows. The union grievance process ensures you're treated fairly and not fired without true cause (it's extremely rare for someone to be fired, or quit for that matter...but they can't fire you because they don't like you).

I wouldn't work at UPS for 6 figures+ a year.

[underpants]

41. funny story about the GPS tracking

(from someone I know at UPS)

They started tracking their 18wheelers and one in particular on a long run (2 hours out and 2 hours back for instance) was doing something odd. Maybe twice every three weeks the truck would venture off of its route about 45 minutes. Literally a right turn...turn around....back to the route and take another right ....back on the route.

They couldn't figure out what it was. Was the driver picking up freight he wasn't supposed to? Was he unloading freight? Did he have a girlfriend?
Management thought about it...thought about how to breech the subject with the driver...and finally in conversations they found out what was going on.


"Oh there is this place with the BEST Barbeque" was the answer.
He wasn't moving drugs or contraband and he didn't have a girlfriend. He just liked the BBQ.

[ellisonz]

36. The Post Office should be taxpayer funded as being essential the General Welfare. n/t

[madokie]

40. I do online shopping and request USPS shipment when I get the chance

I want our post office to remain open.

[JNelson6563]

43. My thoughts exactly.

I've always had excellent service from the USPS and I want our little rural branches up here to remain open. I support them every chance I get.

Julie

[Sirveri]

42. So you found a bad apple? My USPS carrier is an idiot too.

I do jewelry, he left a box full of 500$ worth of silver on our porch, didn't even knock. I was awake and was just lucky enough to hear him slip it onto the porch.

Bad apples and incompetence is everywhere, but I don't let a single point cause me to judge the entire operation.

[GoCubsGo]

45. Yep. I have had the worst luck with FedEx.

My USPS carrier varies from week to week, and most of them are really good. UPS has been good overall, too. FedEx, is another story. One time, they delivered a package to a house on the next block that had the same house number. My sister paid extra for the signature service, but they never bothered to get a signature for it. I am lucky the person who received the package was honest enough to bring it by. Recently, my brother sent me a box at Xmas. It contained bottles of liquid, which he bubble-wrapped to the hilt. One of them broke and spilled. They re-packaged the box, but they sent it back to him! To be fair, they have gotten things right more often than not, but then, I don't use them all that often.

[backscatter712]

48. Last week, it was the video of the Fed-Ex driver tossing a flat-screen TV over a fence.

Why on earth does USPS, Fed-Ex or UPS tolerate these shitbags?

My advice to the OP, set up a webcam at your door for the next time UPS is delivering a package, and make sure the next time this douche abuses your packages, catch him on video, broadcast it on Youtube, and make sure UPS management gets a copy (with the Youtube link...)

[Throd]

51. Why don't you talk to the guy? Explain your situation to him.

[pipi_k]

52. Sounds more like

a problem with this particular driver than with UPS as a whole.

I've had some fantastic UPS drivers in the 16 years I've lived here in the woods.

Fed Ex, not so much. one of them totally sucked. Would keep my stuff on his truck and then lie about nobody being here (we are retired...here basically 24/7)...dump our stuff at the top of the hill in a neighbor's driveway...etc.

I wrote to Corp. offices, they fixed his ass.

USPS...great mail lady for 12 or 13 years. Then she retired and we got some twit who misdelivers mail at least a few times a month. Ours to the neighbors. The neighbors' to us.

So I don't know if you're calling the right people at UPS or what...maybe an actual letter to someone at a Corporate office would help? If you haven't done that already, I mean.

[teamster633]

56. You're a pretty understanding guy, aren't you?

Despite all your bluster, you have all these items stolen and you haven't bothered to file a single claim. Most people aren't so understanding. I'll offer you a tip on the off chance that everything above isn't total bullshit designed to discredit yet another union shop: the next time something is stolen file a claim. Don't complain about the driver; don't order a replacement; file a claim. Once a claim is associated with your address the driver will have NO way to deliver your package without a signature, their handheld computer will not allow the delivery stop to be completed WITHOUT that signature. Problem solved. That this problem could have gone on for 3 years without your having stumbled upon this solution is extremely hard for me to believe but, in the end, it is just that easy.

[Systematic Chaos]

57. "...pretty understanding guy?" Pot, meet kettle.

Did you bother reading my additional posts upthread? Like, where I mentioned that we have called UPS repeatedly, asking for a reasonable remedy to this problem, such as flagging the driver to force us to sign rather than him at our address? Or directing all of our packages to the main office (which would save the driver a lot of time rather than taking stairs or an elevator up to our apartment)? In all the times we have been on the phone with Amazon, the VA and UPS over this guy not one fucking word was mentioned about "filing a claim." So maybe it's not "that easy."

And you come in here with the raw nerve to claim that my post is designed to discredit unions? You're fucking calling me a liar who would invent a story about stolen gauze and buckwheat pancake flour? Seriously? You really think that after spending nearly a decade on this site, I'm actually some anti-union wingnut?

Cool story, bro.