People shouldn't *want* to own guns.

[Tommy Carcetti]

Besides the very obvious breakdown on the political level, that's one of the biggest contributors to the Great American Gun Violence Problem that vexes us.

Way too many people in this country want guns. They tell themselves that they need to own a gun even when in most circumstances, they don't. They think they're fun. They think they're cool. They think it somehow qualifies them as manly. They convince themselves of a hundred and one situations where they think they'll be called upon to use a gun, very few if any of which are actually realistic.

And then there are the "Second American Revolution" nuts. That craziness speaks for itself.

I don't own a gun. I've never even actually shot a gun. (Besides BB guns and water guns, that is.) The only time I can remember having the chance of shooting a gun, I was probably 10 or 11, in scout camp, and they had a shooting range. And I was going to do it until something in the back of my head told me I would rather not do it. And so I polite excused myself from the activity. No drama or anything like that.

I think it was because that was the first time it dawned on me that yes, guns were tools, but they were extraordinary tools. Tools designed with the specific primary purpose of shooting—and potentially killing—another living being. And at 10 or 11 years old, I just really didn’t have the desire to get involved with something that had such heavy implications just as a fun exercise. Hence, the abstention.

That is not to say I don’t feel guns have their place in society. The military needs guns, obviously. The police, too, although with rigorous and properly trained discretion. And, yes, there exists a need for private citizens to own guns.

And this goes for myself as well. Because while I may never have yet owned or used a gun, I’m not saying I would never do so under any circumstance. There are certain defined “red lines” that could be crossed to change the situation.

If I lived in a neighborhood that was under constant threat of burglaries and break ins, I might buy a gun.

If I was in a situation like that in Ukraine, subjected to a hostile foreign invasion, I’d probably get a gun.

If I had to hunt for survival because there were no other means, I would certainly use a gun.

Luckily, none of those things are remotely a reality in my life at the moment, so for now I have no need or desire to buy or use a gun.

Regarding the solution to the problem, beyond just the political solution, I think it’s all a matter of a change of mindset in this country.

We have to realize that guns are extraordinary tools, and that people should never just *want* them, even when they still might need them or have to have them.

And all the scenes that have played out on the news are the ultimate end result of too many people wanting guns without actually needing guns and all that comes with it.

We need a will to act, both politically but also personally and introspectively.

It is our entirely unique American Gun Problem to solve.

[Claustrum]

1. I completely agree with you.

Though, we know that at least 1/3 of the country (if not 1/2) were told to believe that they "need" as many guns as they want because that's their god given 2nd amendment rights.

And no matter how reasonable some limited gun control laws are, they simply shout "you are not taking our guns away". They are not even going to entertain any form of restriction on their "rights" to object any firearm no matter how that firearm is not meant for civilian use.

[jmbar2]

2. At some level...

It's not even the gun.

It's the fantasy of justifiably making someone obey you, even if it requires killing them. How many times do gun owners, or gun buyers, mentally rehearse scenarios where they get to dominate, threaten, intimidate, or kill someone with a gun?

That's what needs to be addressed.

[sanatanadharma]

3. This! The 'desire' for guns is a sign of disturbed individuals

Before anyone gets a gun they ought be subject to an inquiry about their desires, perceived needs, expected solutions to satisfying these egoic feelings of lack and thus needs.

A gun is to be shunned until shoved in one's hand for National defense.
Especially true for those who feel 'disturbed by (fill in the blank)'; a gun may not be the sane solution, and thus the gun needs be denied.

Personally paraphrasing President Kennedy's admonition, understand and choose wisely between 'do for' and 'take from'.

[Effete Snob]

4. Feral hogs seem to be a problem in the southern US

They can be large and dangerous.

[ck4829]

7. And that speaks to the problem in the OP

If someone needs a gun to protect them from a wild animal then get a gun, but we should also be asking why the state is not stepping up.

[quaker bill]

17. you have to be in a very wrong place

I am an ecologist who spent a 30 year career in the field. Feral hogs are only a threat during the rutt, and only if they get the notion that you are competing for their girl friends. It can happen, but you really have to be in places where few if any of us ever tread. I was there once and was bluff charged by a boar. I stepped out of the way and once he figured out I was not another pig, he went on his way.

That said, there are plenty of good reasons to shoot them. They make a useless mess out of habitat, so I am always good with removing them. This is why the legal hunting season for them is 24/7/365. I have no problem with the possession and use of a firearm for this purpose. Personally, I do not hunt, not out of objection to taking a pig, but because the one time I tried it the mixture of cheap beer and high powered weapons did not suit my taste in things.

[Effete Snob]

9. Wow

Impressive.

[quaker bill]

16. but when properly prepared

by smoking low and slow, they can be tender and tasty.

Friends who are conservation biologists do carry a high bore rifle to remove the porcine offenders from conservation areas. They are not native and tear up habitat that might otherwise be used by native species, so "perforating pigs" is a step for habitat restoration in much the same way that folks are paid a bounty to kill rock pythons further south.

I have on occasion been to a BBQ where a properly dressed out feral hog was prepared properly on an open pit or an offset smoker, perfectly tasty.

I have no problem with this use for firearms.

[PufPuf23]

19. What are stats on death by feral hog?

Bet pretty slim compared to death by gun.

One is more likely to be killed in the woods driving to the woods or by a hunter than be killed by a wild animal. Many wild animal caused deaths, however rare, are because of stupid human tricks.

[Caliman73]

5. This is a good well thought out post.

Even as a firearm owner myself, I would subscribe to a lot of your argument more than I would to a lot of the arguments of people within "gun culture".

I grew up around firearms, and when I purchased a firearm it was like you described, under a very specific situation where I had to protect myself from credible threat.

A gun is a tool, and as you said, a tool with the ability to cause irrevocable damage both if used as intended, or used in a negligent or malicious manner. Even if you have to protect your life or the life of a loved one, you may still be killing someone and you have to constantly wrestle with that.

Too many people don't. They glorify guns, they fix them up, paint them, give them names, etc... separating themselves from the potential. Just like we separate ourselves from people who commit violence by calling them "crazy" or something else. When we do that, we allow a mindset to creep in that dehumanizes a situation and takes us away from our responsibility to each other.

[Hugin]

6. Yeah, tools.

But, we differ on the extraordinary part.

There are far better tools for making holes in things. Which don’t suffer from the risk of ricochet, powder burns, misfires, and killing classrooms/nightclubs full of innocent people.

[Irish_Dem]

10. They want guns to terrorize and intimidate others.

They want control and power.

[usonian]

11. Guns have been fetishized by society

by obvious interests.

Cross-posted:
Except for people who actually plan on killing, it may be that many gun purchases are symbolic, like fancy watches and cars are for others.

And as such, reflect cultural norms. I never saw a deadly weapon in person until boot camp, but plenty on TV and movies.

[Amishman]

12. It's not that straight forward

Full confession: I own multiple guns. Several heirlooms and a more modern pistol (cz-75).

I live in a rural area where police response times could easily be 30+ minutes. Pistol says in a biometric lockbox, the old long guns in a locked security cabinet.

I feel at least a pistol and a shotgun is reasonable for my situation. The shotgun is too long and awkward if I had an intruder in the house. The pistol is much harder to hit with at a distance.

I have used one of the shotguns in a defensive situation. We had a raccoon acting strangely; out in the day and trying to chase our dog. I shot it, strongly suspecting rabies (game commission took the carcass but couldn't test it due to time elapsed).

[Ocelot II]

13. But the obvious question is, *why* do they want to own guns?

More specifically, why do people want to own the sorts of guns that are useful and intended only for killing many people in a short period of time? People want guns for hunting. My dad owned guns - a few rifles and shotguns for hunting, like everybody else's dads. It was no big deal. Every fall he'd go pheasant hunting and we'd have pheasant for Thanksgiving instead of turkey. But you can't hunt pheasants with an AR-15, at least not if you want anything left of them to make a meal with. Some people have a gun at home for protection, but you don't need an assault-type weapon, just one you can access quickly and don't need to aim accurately, like a shotgun. You don't need to turn a home invader into hamburger.

So who are the people who want multiple military-style guns, and why do they want them? I think the whole gun issue has to be analyzed from the demand side as well as the supply side. What is it about guns, especially those kinds of guns, that makes some people fetishize them? And that's what it is - a fetish. Some people have assigned meaning to guns far beyond their use as a common tool for hunting or self-defense. To some, guns are such a powerful symbol of manly American patriotism that any attempt to restrict their ownership or use is tantamount to treason. Where did this bizarre fixation come from? A lot of different places, probably, starting with the individualistic cowboy fantasy, the myth of American exceptionalism and the rise of toxic masculinity. All this as been amplified by the NRA, which once was just a sportsman's organization but in the '70s became a tool of the gun manufacturers, and which turned gun ownership into a non-negotiable right-wing idee fixe. And many people - mostly white men who are convinced that the commies are going to sap their precious bodily fluids if they don't keep an arsenal of weapons to ward off an oppressive government, as well as insecure, disturbed boys whose revenge fantasies are fed by online violence porn - are now convinced that they need guns like they need air and food.

I don't know how to change this.

[brer cat]

15. Great post, Ocelot.

[IcyPeas]

14. I turned on an a.m. right wing radio show this morning to see what they were saying....

they were mocking Nicolle Wallace and John Heileman because they each said they'd never fired a gun. So the host says who are they to be talking about guns when they've never even fired one?

I just thought...... what the hell. and turned it off.

So if we have never fired a gun we shouldn't opine on the matter?

[hunter]

18. Guns are just about the only thing the burglars around here care about.

Advertising one's gun love just makes your house a target.

I haven't been hunting this century. There are too many people out there (many of them idiots) and too little nature. I'll leave the hunting to the cougars, coyotes, and bobcats.

Most people in the U.S.A. can't be bothered to own a gun. The gun companies make their money selling more guns to people who already have guns.

All in all, gun fetishes are disgusting.

"Open Carry" is public masturbation.

Fortunately I don't see that around here, it's an open invitation for the police or some random gangster to take your gun. Both are likely to shoot first.