Republicans Are Having Some Trouble Talking About Rape and Incest

[In It to Win It]

Slate

No Paywall

By the time the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last week, 13 states were ready with so-called trigger laws that would ban abortions within their borders immediately. (Additional states had pre-Roe prohibitions in place that will now be enforced.) One notable thing about these trigger statutes, which have been gradually enacted over the past two decades, is that most of them do not make any exceptions for cases involving rape or incest.

This absolutist approach to abortion prohibition was once considered both morally and politically unthinkable, but came into vogue in red states thanks to the increasingly hard-line views that have come to dominate both the conservative movement and anti-abortion activism in particular. The reasoning behind it is straightforward enough: If life really starts at conception and abortion is murder, then terminating a pregnancy for any reason at all must be banned. The issue is that outside the world of conservative ideologues, it remains a wildly unpopular policy.

Take Yesli Vega, a GOP house candidate in Virginia, who was caught on tape during a campaign stop musing that women might be less likely to get pregnant in cases of rape. This is a long-running myth with deep origins in the anti-abortion movement, which might explain why it was proposed first by someone attending the campaign event. On the audio, first reported by Axios, the audience member asks: “I’ve actually heard that it’s harder for a woman to get pregnant if she’s been raped. Have you heard that?” Vega responds: “Well, maybe because there’s so much going on in the body. I don’t know. I haven’t, you know, seen any studies. But if I’m processing what you’re saying, it wouldn’t surprise me. Because it’s not something that’s happening organically. You’re forcing it.”

Other Republicans have tried to put a more compassionate, principled spin on their position. “I believe every life is precious,” South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem said when asked to defend the lack of a rape exception in her state’s trigger law. “I just have never believed that having a tragedy or tragic situation happen to someone is a reason to have another tragedy occur.” Asked by an AP reporter whether a “12-year-old girl who was molested by her father or uncle” should have to carry the child to term, Philip Gunn, the speaker of Mississippi’s House, responded simply: “That is my belief. I believe life begins at conception.”

[KentuckyWoman]

1. A tragedy is not a good reason for another tragedy....

So ... no more death penalty?


If they think abortion is a tragedy then does that mean there will be no punishment for abortions because we don't believe in another tragedy after a tragedy?

Idiots. The whole blooming lot of them .. IDIOTS.

[Hotler]

2. That's the only way a lot of them can get laid. Sick and sad. nt.

[Ms. Toad]

8. Rape is not motivated by sexual desire. It is an assertion of power and anger. n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

13. Not exclusively. If a victim is unconscious, opportunity and getting away with a quickie enter in.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Having sex with someone who can offer no resistance is still asserting power over them.

Whether that thought consciously runs through the rapist's mind, or is just the product of the rape culture in which we are all steeped, any sex which is non-consensual is an espression of domination over that person.

And suggesting that rape is just having sex (that's the only way a lot of them can get laid) feeds victim blaming (the victim triggered his sexual desire), as opposed to the rapist's sexual thrill arising from directing anger at or expressing power over the victim.

[TheBlackAdder]

15. But it's not exclusivity power, that's all I'm saying.

[Ms. Toad]

16. But it includes power -

(And in most instances that, or anger, is what creates the sexual thrill).

Equating sex with rape (as the "joking" comment in the post to which I responded did) perpetuates rape culture - and that is part of what allows a rapist to think that just getting a quickie with an unconscious woman is somehow sex, not rape.

[TheBlackAdder]

17. Definitely power & control are primary, but the sexual urge is a subtext, and lesser pregnancy goal.

.

If lewdness wasn't a driving factor, sexual abuse would be little more prevalent than hurting other areas of the body.

There are different aspects of sexual contact, romantic, physical pleasure, release, etc. Obviously it would have to be a perverted romantic desire, but it is more instant gratification and release. In some men, they can be detached from romance when having sex and they just need to get their rocks off.

The Bible was the means to stop much of this, and at the same times drives a lot of this. Laws and the fear of incarceration are what is the main detractor to abusive people performing these acts, and as we see even that is not very effective.

The physical aspect of sex is a part of rape. Not the main driving forces, but a part of it and that cannot be discounted.

.

[Ms. Toad]

18. What you are missing is that in rape, the sexual thrill isn't from having sexual intercourse -

it is from the expression of anger or power over another person (generally male over female), not a perverted romantic desire. And getting their rocks off comes from that ultimate domination far more than the physical stimulation of the act of rape, which is also why it is more prevalent than hurting other parts of the body. It is why rape is expressly used as a weapon in war - it is not only the ultimate domination over women, it is also domination over whoever "owns" the woman.

The post to which I responded was misogynistic, and is NOT an appropriate joke (not sure there are any) in a thread focusing on the devastating impact of the abortion ruling on victims of rape and incest.

[scarletlib]

3. The view that women can't get pregnant from a rape because of the shock is strictly Medieval.

The Medieval doctors used the Roman physician Galen’s ideas. They basically believed that a woman’s sex organs sort of froze when sex was forced. Obviously they knew nothing about women’s anatomy. They had a lot of other screwy ideas about sex, reproduction , pregnancy, etc.

I read this several years ago in a book about daily Medieval life. This was about the time Todd Akin said the same thing. My mouth literally fell open when I realized he was spouting Medieval ideas.

[hatrack]

4. What Akin and his fellow Republic-spawn believe is some twisted Victorian bullshit

You see, a woman can't become pregnant unless she orgasms, and if she orgasms, that means she enjoyed it, and if she enjoyed it, than it can't be rape.

They honestly believe this.

The good news? Todd Akin is dead, so there's that.

[Freddie]

6. If pregnant required a female orgasm

There would be FAR fewer people on this planet

[scarletlib]

12. That is true.

However, as I pointed out, this viewpoint comes from the teachings of the Roman physician Galen.
It was the basis of medical practice in Medieval Europe. Eventually imbedded in the law and continuing through Victorian times and even, evidently, today.

[moondust]

5. Couple questions for them.

If "life begins at conception" then:

1. Do stillborns imply God is a murderer?

2. Do birth defects imply God is a violent abuser?

[Bettie]

10. Miscarriages too

Clearly, god hates babies, I mean 10-20 percent of KNOWN pregnancies end in miscarriage, and if a fertilized egg is a baby, then, god really is the biggest abortionist out there because we have no idea how many of them perish due to menstruation.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Their answers would be:

1. Only God has the right to grant or take life as he sees fit.


2. No.

[Freddie]

7. Something in the Constitution about cruel and unusual punishment

Oh my bad. That’s just for criminals. Cruel and unusual punishment of crime victims is perfectly fine!

[viva la]

9. What happens to a 12year old body...

Forced to grow and birth and 8 pound body?

Men who will never give birth are deciding that damage is a fair price to pay for them hanging on to some fundie woman-hating voters.

[uponit7771]

11. K&R,

[treestar]

19. The problem with this way of looking at it

Each miscarriage is a death.

And each conception should be registered.

Tried this on a couple of them, and they get mad and refuse to answer.

He even argued that the child should not be punished (murdered) for the sins of its father!!!!!!

Typical conservative either/or thinking. They can't deal with nuance, so they end up with inhuman views.

[peggysue2]

20. The latest spin I've heard is that rape is a myth

No one can be 'forced' to have sex.

Yes, I guess if you're battered, pistol-whipped or half-strangled and you give up fighting you're complying to the man's desires which we know is more about physical dominance that sexual satisfaction.

Not sure how that applies to a child who may be and certainly will be the victim of the mythical act. We've already read about the pregnant 10-year old in Ohio rushed across the state border into Indiana bc the enforced Ohio ban would force this little girl to carry.

Barbaric, disgusting and these f*ckers need to pay.

Religious zealotry and fanaticism are deadly. This is the Party of Death.

[scarletlib]

22. See replies to this further up the thread.

This myth is based on medical teachings of the Roman physician Galen, adopted and used by Medieval doctors and even today some ignorant fools believe it.

[peggysue2]

23. Yup, you nailed it.

Medieval and Todd Akin 2.0.

[ismnotwasm]

21. They aren't talking about "life" they are talking about ensoulment

Obviously, a fetus, zygote, ova or sperm has “life” —so what?

Ensoulment is a religious belief.

[NowISeetheLight]

24. Time for TV Commercials

They can be computer generated so real kids aren’t involved. Commercials showing a child forced to carry a rape baby to term… then dying in delivery. How about a rape victim contemplating suicide because she can’t deal with carrying her rapists baby. Time to get brutal and play dirty. The Dems have been too “nice”.