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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPumped for Today's Hearing!
"When mores are sufficient, laws are unnecessary. When mores are insufficient, laws are unenforceable." -- Emile Durkheim
I should be resting now, as I did not get enough sleep last night. The thought of today's J6 Committee meeting was dancing in my head. So I read some works by Durkheim, to relax. I found myself thinking about his belief that the society that has shared values tends to function, while those without shared values experience dysfunction. I think I wrote about this concept a year or more ago, noting the America of my youth watched Walter Cronkite. And believed him.
Today, of course, there is no one trusted news source. More, within the vast array of options for mews sources, there are many that are one-sided, including those that "bend" the truth, as well as those that outright lie. Others are silent on important social dynamics -- bringing Lennon's saying that "a conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words. I broke that late night silence by switching from reading Durkheim to watching the news on television.
As I was watching, and muttering, "Put them in prison" over my breathe, I knew I needed to get to sleep, for I had to get up early in the morning, to greet a man who was coming to do a half-hour's work. Yet I could not get to sleep as I paced back and forth, agreeing with myself that they need to be incarcerated. But then it hit me -- the job this poor fellow would be doing was, in a very real sense, what we need nation-wide, today!
For gentle readers inhabiting the suburbs and cities, one of the less pleasant tasks of rural life is taking care of your septic system. Even the best functioning of these requires being pumped every so often. When I had nine people living here, it was more frequent than now that I live pretty much alone. Now, when I moved into this very old house, I found the septic system was made of hickory, from long ago. I had a more modern system put in, of course.
The fellow came bright and early, noting he wanted to beat the thunder storm heading our way. I think that Gandhi was right when he said that there is dignity in all work, in response to those complaining about digging our the latrines in this community. Heck, as a young man, I found work in putting in septic systems. Plus I enjoy talking with everyone, so when the guy finished, I could see he wanted to engage in conversation.
He started talking about his dislike of the dreaded younger generation. His youngest daughter, a son, his brother, and his mother all like Bernie Sanders, though one might speculate that 50% of those listed are not among the younger generation. I said that I thought it would be best if we all understood and respected the Constitution. He agreed.
He said his son is pro-legalization of pot. He noted the law had never stopped anyone from smoking it. I said, "Right. Only those who got arrested and sent to jail." He said he is conservative, but doesn't agree witheverything republicans do. He said that he was pro-choice, and told of when, as a married man with two children, he got another woman pregnant. He accompanied her to Planned Parenthood, and spoke highly of them. Within two years, he and this other woman got married and had two planned children. You can't make this up, and I say that not in making any judgement, but rather as an example of real life.
I said that I thought January 6 was wrong, and that those involved need to be incarcerated. It was then that our conversation went off the rails. He said the media has film the J6 Committee is refusing to show, of democrats dropping off bus-loads of Antifa behind the Capital while Trump was speaking a mile away. "I haven't seen that," I said. "But every last one of them involved in the planning and the riot need to go to jail, don't you think?" He agreed.
Now, back to today's hearing. I think that these hearings have indicated that our social septic system needs to be pumped in November. There are far too many republican maga-types adding their shit to think we can afford to put this off. Then we need to put this Supreme Court in check, because we have too many "originalists" on there insisting that we require a hickory sewer. No, I live in the same house, and things like running water and electricity were not available when that old hickory system was put in. Heck, the old piping from the well to the barn was made of leather back in the day. Same concepts, just as those expressed in the Constitution. Just we live in a different world today.
Anyhow, I'm pumped for today's hearing, and hope that you are, too! I love the DU discussions that take place during and after them. We are witnessing history, and must participate in it between now and November.
Peace,
H2O Man
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Today is going to be a very bad day for Trump and his merry band of traitors. One of the final nails in their coffins.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I can't wait, though I have to.
kentuck
(111,052 posts)We can never know how historic until we see it in hindsight.
Then, we say, "Man, that was bad!"
I can say that these are the most outstanding and intense congressional hearings I've ever witnessed. Id did watch Alexander Butterfield being interviewed on MSNBC last night. I like the connection between Watergate and January 6, and the need for the country to hear the truth.
livetohike
(22,121 posts)and Ill carefully watch the videos to spot Antifa .
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)They possessed the bodies of maga dolts. Darn them!
Ohio Joe
(21,726 posts)Looks like it is now starting at 1:30 EST... If you want, here is a good primer for what we know publicly about the 'stop the steal' timeline:
https://www.justsecurity.org/74622/stopthesteal-timeline-of-social-media-and-extremist-activities-leading-to-1-6-insurrection/
It's interesting stuff and I hope it plays into what we'll hear today.
Much appreciated!
867-5309.
(1,189 posts)on the video finally put out on J6? Or did I miss it?
Ohio Joe
(21,726 posts)Nor talked about that I recall... I would very much like to see them as well.
867-5309.
(1,189 posts)and see no reason the committee wouldn't.
Ohio Joe
(21,726 posts)I assume they have them and would show them if they had anything relevant... Otherwise, they have too much to cover if they don't show anything.
867-5309.
(1,189 posts)If they were worse than the final product - damn. Hell, he said he loved those damn people in the final!
I think the more crap we see spewing directly from his mouth, the better. That is more compelling than an account of such tripe.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)only in the diseased imaginations of the maga cult.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Trump has been rather unpleasanter than usual on J6 hearing days.
berniesandersmittens
(11,343 posts)Last time I had the septic tank pumped was about 10 years ago so thanks for the reminder lol.
I moved into this house in my early 20s and it was funny when my friends asked why the hell I was flushing buttermilk and yeast down the commode.
I too am pumped for today's hearing, but if the shit hits the fan.....it may not be just a metaphor in my house
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I woke the dog up laughing so hard!
spanone
(135,789 posts)Pumped too!!!!
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)This should be outstanding!
spanone
(135,789 posts)I've been very impressed with the way the committee has comported itself.
👍🏼
Wild blueberry
(6,615 posts)You're right about witnessing history. Such a great committee doing this vital work for our democracy!
Also, as a rural dweller, love your septic system pumping analogy--very apt.
Thank you for a swell post.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I think this one will document what many of us have known since January 6 -- that the White House was running the violent program.
pandr32
(11,553 posts)...when I hear it. I know it is out there, but it is like driving over a rumble strip when I hear it. I realize that whoever believes it is parroting and hasn't actually thought about--at all.
It requires one to be brain dead to believe that the super-secret Antifa tapes exist, and there is a conspiracy to prevent Trump et al from playing them for the J6 Committee.
MLAA
(17,247 posts)Septic creatures should never serve in government.
Martin Eden
(12,844 posts)What remains to be seen is whether the consequences to the chief criminals will be commensurately greater.
That unanswered question, sadly, is why I am unable to get very pumped up.
However, that dose of skepticism does not affect my engagement on this and the imperative of kicking Repug ass in November.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Much worse.
I think that many of us have had let downs in the past. For we have come to recognize that government doesn't work when a segment of elected officials are intent upon preventing it from working, and a justice system that isn't just imperfect, but too often perfect for the obviously guilty.
We know who is trying to clog the system. Come November, we must pump them out of the system. And a lot of those toxic wastes can only be safely spread through the prisons.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)If only it would back up into the DoJ's bathtub so they would see this is a real, extensive, ongoing emergency. They appear to still be picking at a hairball in the sink and ignoring the shit spilling all over the floor.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Really well said, indeed.
We need to stop the nonsense, and work in a coordinated way to pomp the clogs out of the system, from local to state to national.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)I have no doubt that he installed clogs that are still hindering investigations today.
J6 is back from recess now.
[ Edit to add: ] Forgetting my manners -- thank you.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)been impressed by today's hearing. Powerful.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)I'm still mad. They had Hillary Clinton as the queen of hearts in their deck of targets.
The 4 closing statements made certain that anyone listening had to recognize the threat and that it continues.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Rubin described such people as being hypnotized by an outside source/person. They are capable of killing anyone they view as "the enemy."
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)They were in a positive feedback loop of hate and disinformation, each stoking the other.
One thing I noticed in tv discussions afterward was the characterization of this as a "chain". They're still not seeing it as a web of conspiracy with trump as just another thread of it. I don't often post an OP, but this aggravated me enough to do so -- https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216917234
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)and just commented on it. Thanks!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)We have people in high office who are pumping and dumping sewage into the system even as we're trying to pump it out.
After what we've seen in the hearings, surely there is a point when disinformation is no longer protected political speech. I'm just not clever enough to know where that point is or even if it exists.
malaise
(268,692 posts)The best line so far today was that Slobby is a grown man 76 years old.
The production of this hearing is first class.
They are tying together all the strands brilliantly.
By the way the craziest of the crazies is the Slobfather.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I'd go so far as to suggest that he is an over-grown man. He needs to be trimmed back, to fit into a small cell.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)He desperately wants to be thought of as a big, tough mob boss.
spanone
(135,789 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)nolabear
(41,932 posts)White Nationalist MAGA cult madness on parade. And he cannot pretend he doesnt love it.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Thank you for that. We need the truth to be spoken about the implications.
Saoirse9
(3,676 posts)I keep hearing people say that there was no voter fraud sufficient to affect the result of the election. Barr said it, Cippolone said it, and now even Jamie Raskin is saying it.
sufficient to affect the result of the election
Why do they keep putting it that way? There was no fraud to speak of. All the fraud that was found, was committed by republicans.
Now that I have that BS off my chest, I am impressed with the hearing so far. I was at work when it started so right now I am listening to Mr. Van Tatenhoff speak about the white supremacist groups involved in the insurrection. He's very worried about the future for his daughters. I am way past worrying. I am scared.
How do you feel about Garland prosecuting 45? People keep saying he's being a wimp and he won't step up to the plate. What to YOU think?
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)is what we might call "legal talk" intended to be understood by non-lawyers. And I agree -- all of the fraud that I've heard was uncovered was done by republicans.
I don't really know enough about Garland to say more than I think he is similar in many ways to Cipollone in that both are what I view as "careful" lawyers. Guys who believe in the legal system that they have pledged to work in. Neither are the type known for rocking the boat.
I said that, to say this: the pressure on Cipollone reached a point where he decided to actually testify. And that same type of pressure is on Garland to prosecute the higher-ups in this conspiracy to overthrow the government. Not just the freaks who invaded the Capital, but those higher up -- including Flynn and Stone, as well as Meadows and very likely Trump. I would also include the gang of assclowns that assured Trump that their plan could work, like Sidney Powell and Rudy.
Saoirse9
(3,676 posts)Then I read something by someone smart who is fed up with waiting for the DOJ to act, and who doesnt trust Garland. And then I lose faith.
So I go back and forth. I want to see a sign of his personality and I just dont. There are no clues so I cant relax and let him do his process in his own time.
I cant imagine the pressure he is under. And its hard to imagine him taking no action after everything weve seen and heard. But I also dont know how to measure him. In speeches he seems sorta wishy washy.
We may well be grateful for his slow methodical careful approach some day. But not today.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)is, "would this be good for the country?" I have two responses: first, this question involves -- but is not limited to -- politics. And the DOJ shouldn't be effected by politics. I do understand and appreciate that indicting, prosecuting, and convicting Trump will result in an increase in violence. That's real. But not doing it will also result in an increasein that same violence.
Thus, I say indict.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,245 posts)For the good of the country, he should be proven a liar once again.
Justice must be seen to be done.
Easterncedar
(2,260 posts)And a very good example, H2O Man, of how to have a respectful conversation with someone whose mind has been warped by the newsewage -"snewerage?" ? gotta work on that - that has so tainted our country.
We have been subjected to a relentless and devastatingly effective campaign designed to sow division in our country - and indeed across the western democracies - and the results are now now sickeningly engrained. How to find common ground and what we used to think of as commonsense is the challenge of our time, I think, because we can't fix the one most urgent and horrific thing, climate change, if we don't come together soon. And we are running out of time.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I appreciate that you mentioned how the nonsense handcuffs our ability to focus on the climate -- which I consider the most pressing issue. And we cannot begin to deal with that, as a people, without democracy.
One of the things I find most interesting about living in a rural area, where republicans and independents outnumber democrats by significant margins, has to do with people I grew up with who hunt, trap, and fish. They are republicans, who talk a lot about Amendment 2, and tend to think "climate change" is a hoax. Yet when we talk about hunting, trapping, and fishing, they are able to identify significant changes in the environment in our area over the last half-century.
As we inhabit an area with numerous toxic industrial waste dumps, for example, there are many, many places that, as young people, they once hunted, trapped, and fished with their fathers and grandfathers, which due to these dumps, they no longer would consider viable. They can identify differences in the water table, etc. And this is the foundation that I patiently attempt to help them build upon, so that they are able to grasp what the future holds if we do not confront the severe damage we have done -- and are doing -- to the environment.
Easterncedar
(2,260 posts)Everyone I know can see it the evidence, but the big picture seems too much to take in - I'm frozen in despair myself: silent spring is upon us as the insect populations are crashing. The decline in the songbird population evident here in Maine is shocking. I see no swallows at all where there were long-established colonies, for one example, and all I hear from non-birders is that it's great that mosquitos aren't so bothersome this year.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)of work with Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman, I learned a lot of their predictions for the Euro-American destruction of the environment -- which, of course, soon involved the contributions of the global industrial society. The message of Handsome Lake in 1798 has all come to pass, and we have entered a different phase. It will involve human suffering and death, sadly. But unlike man's law, Natural Law has no mercy. You can't hire a fancy lawyer, or make a plea deal.