Finally, sensible talk about what really needs to be done! Ration Gas.

[rgbecker]

At least the Europeans are considering a workable, proven method to address material shortages caused by WAR. A 15% cut of use would really stabilize prices and availability to essential uses...like food production...rather than vacation drives etc.

I suggested this months ago and was met head on by the DU "free enterprise wing of the Democratic party."

Rationing worked in 1942-5, it could work today. This needs to happen with Natural Gas and Gasoline.

[link:https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/07/20/world/ukraine-russia-war|

[gratuitous]

1. I could make some bank on this

I commute by bicycle, so I'd be happy to sell my coupons to someone who needs more gas to get around. Cut rate, if I like the person. Triple the cost if they have a Trump sticker on their vehicle (stupid should cost).

[former9thward]

2. Rationing happens when you have shortages.

We have no shortage of gas, Natural or Gasoline. No one will ration gas under those circumstances. Europe is in another circumstance. They do have shortages.

[Scrivener7]

3. I guess the planet boiling isn't reason enough.

[NickB79]

27. It's pretty obvious the only way to stop climate change is draconian measures

And that, in a democratic society, any politicians brave enough to say as much would be eviscerated in the next voting cycle by politicians telling people to ignore the problem.

We've really backed ourselves into a corner here.

[robodruid1]

34. Nuclear is the way.

We can do it, if we just had the will.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

4. It's more like

a refinery issue not a gasoline shortage issue.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. I remember the rationing in the '70s.

Apparently we only had a shortage of cheap gas.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

6. So you want us to get annihilated in the midterms?

Because that's exactly what would happen if we try to force rationing now. Also, rationing is in response for shortages and we don't have shortages on gas right now. Diesel, on the other hand, is at risk of a regional shortage at least. The northeast's supply was running low a couple months ago, not sure if that situation has gotten better or not yet.

[Chainfire]

7. I guess you could abandon rural America, and bring us all to where mass transportation is available

There is only about 60,000,000 of us. Give us a viable alternative and most of us would happily accept it. I would gladly use an electric or hydrogen fueled vehicle if I could figure out how to pay for it.

In my particular case, I am six miles from the nearest post office or convenience store, ten miles from a police station, I am 11 miles from the nearest grocery store or pharmacy, and 37 miles from a hospital. There is no public transportation. I would look damn silly trying to pedal my 70 year old butt the 37 miles to the hospital while suffering from the sudden onset of a medical problem because I had pissed my gasoline ration away going for groceries.

Us Rural folks might suggest the we throttle back power to the cities, perhaps electricity on odd or even days. It would accomplish the same goals, and perhaps on a grander scale...

Everyone wants someone else to sacrifice.

[meadowlander]

8. Not advocating for rationing

but you would be able to buy additional gas vouchers from people who didn't need them.

So yes, it's an additional cost to you, but the person living in the city is paying more in rent than you to live somewhere they don't need to be car dependent. And they are making other sacrifices to convenience, privacy, personal space, access to natural and green environments, noise and air pollution, etc.

So it's not a question of "city slickers want rural folks to sacrifice". People make choices and those choices have trade-offs and consequences. And tax payers have been subsidizing individual car use for people who choose to live in the suburbs and rural areas for decades and politicians have been pretending that climate change and the end of cheap fossil fuel just aren't things.

Unfortunately, reality shows up eventually and these are some of the choices we need to start making.

[inthewind21]

9. Great response

[Chainfire]

11. It is a matter of people trying to snatch simple solutions out of thin air without thinking.

So, would you approve of my suggestion for rationing power to people in cities, while I do without gasoline? Perhaps you could buy vouchers from your neighbor so that you can run your heat on even and odd days during those long cold Winters. Perhaps doing away with hot water to bathe and eating cold food would help. You could do that starting today. Perhaps we could shut down the subways and people could walk to work...We could open the windows in the high-rises and do away with their internal climate control; think of the power that would save.

Until a viable system of transportation, using alternative fuels, you wont get much change. After all, it is not my driving to the grocery that does the biggest part of the pollution, I drive a KIA... it is hauling your food from the fields to the grocery store and hauling your Chinese knick-knacks from China to California, and from California to you home sweet home. It is the cement production facilities that make the products build the buildings you live in, and on and on. You can't fix climate change by curtailing personal driving.

My point is, is that it is a complex problem of not only mechanics, but politics, that will not be fixed by knee-jerk solutions. Yours or mine.

There are things that could be done if we had the political will. We mandate high mileage vehicles only and do away with the person who drives a 3/4 ton diesel pickup to his office job. We don't have the political will. It is my opinion that we will not have the political will when Miami is a man-made reef, or when Las Vegas has returned to the sand dunes from which it sprang either. We are a nation that can't even universally agree that man-made climate change or Covid is real....

[SickOfTheOnePct]

12. Well said n/t

[meadowlander]

13. As I said in my previous post,

I'm not advocating rationing gas. My point was that if we did it's not a sacrifice that is being arbitrarily demanded of only people who live in rural areas. Sacrifices of living in urban areas are already baked in to higher housing costs for less space.

Reducing emissions is a complex problem and the truth is everyone is going to have to sacrifice across the board and probably a lot more than people realise at the moment. There isn't one action that is going to "fix" climate change. There are a lot of them that will maybe stave off some of the worst consequences. We need to cut emissions significantly in transport and agriculture and energy and industrial processes.

So it's not ultimately that helpful to say "I'll cut down my use of fossil fuel powered vehicle use only when you city dwellers put on an extra sweater in winter and stop buying produce out of season". We all need to pitch in and do what we can.

[Demsrule86]

15. How well did 'sacrifices' go over for Carter? Very poorly in fact. We have a good chance for the

midterms...let's keep it that way...no to rationing...folks this is not 1970.

[meadowlander]

18. "Ask not what your country can do for you" went over pretty well for Kennedy.

There's a point where reality transcends politics and neither party doing anything substantial about the obvious global existential crisis we have been facing for forty years catches up to everyone in terms of lower voter turnout.

And for the third time, I'm not support rationing. But at some point, we need to do something and we need to stop enabling people to be in denial about the scale of what does need to be done. Because the alternative is mass extinction. And the answer is leadership, not telling people what they want to hear.

[Demsrule86]

19. Kennedy less than one term- was assassinated and despiste the adualation here. I think Johnson was

a better president in terms of legislation. Leadership is not forcing crap down people's throats, it is trying to bring them along in terms of ideology.

[meadowlander]

21. The people are there

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2021/4/19/voters-support-green-new-deal

"The Green New Deal remains highly popular, enjoying a 31-percentage-point margin of voter support. This includes nearly all Democrats, a majority of Independents, and over one-third of Republicans.'

The problem is that the people who make the big political donations are not on board. It's a lack of courage, not a lack of popular support.

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/06/23/two-thirds-of-americans-think-government-should-do-more-on-climate/

"A majority of Americans continue to say they see the effects of climate change in their own communities and believe that the federal government falls short in its efforts to reduce the impacts of climate change."

[Demsrule86]

24. No, they say it but it is not a voting issue...rationing would be like a lead balloon and we would

lose the midterms thus delaying any actions for God knows how long. They also claim to be against guns...but again not a voting issue.

[ripcord]

28. In California rural areas are the only places with affordable housing

But you have fun going after people who are only trying to get ahead and can't afford $2500 a month for a two bedroom apartment or $750,000 for a house.

[meadowlander]

29. You literally haven't read a single thing that I said.

[Demsrule86]

16. Absolutely not.

There would be hell to pay...you don't force policy down folk's throats...you educate them and send out people to win their hearts and minds...or they punish you.

[Demsrule86]

17. We do not have a public will. I wish we did but we don't.

[rgbecker]

26. Are you saying you couldn't find a way to cut your gasoline use by 15%?

People need to be motivated to make all these concessions you suggest. They won't do it without leadership and they will never get that leadership from the GOP. People would not be wearing seat belts with the seat belt laws. No air bags in cars without the laws. As you know, the country is driving around in cars that get less miles per gallon than in the 1960s because of jerks like Trump and Manchin.

Time to lead this country away from end times, wild fires and destruction of the environment. We need to reduce gas prices to win the midterms. Name your ideas to accomplish that.

[roamer65]

20. People did barter for rationing stamps during WW2.

Gasoline no so much so. Police actually watched for joyriding and out of place cars They would write citations for it and the people could lose their ration.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/automobile-rationing-world-war-ii

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. No thanks n/t

[Demsrule86]

14. Fuck no...that is just nuts.

[iemanja]

22. That will hand Republicans the election

There couldn't be a worse political disaster for Democrats.

[Sympthsical]

23. As a member of the "Not Losing in November" wing of the party

Newp. Politically dead in the water.

Is it the right thing to do? Of course it is. People should drive less if they are able.

But you may as well put President Biden up there telling people to put on a sweater.

It would go equally as well.

[roamer65]

25. I wouldn't worry too much.

Soon Mother Nature is going to start rationing humans.

[Kaleva]

30. Gas prices have dropped by over a dollar recently where I live

[TheBeam19]

33. Same in mine (mid-size metro area).

I just looked at Gas Buddy and my home city (five hours away and larger and more affluent than the one in which I currently live) and the lowest price there is $0.10/gal lower than the lowest price here.

This whole situation has sucked, especially for those on the lower end of the economic ladder, and it’s definitely due to companies charging more simply because they can and want to (it’s not some inevitable “free market” forces, at all) but it has definitely improved over the last 6-8 weeks and continues to do so.

Senator Whitehouse says it perfectly when he talks about this: it’s cartel pricing.

Anyway, that’s my long-winded reply in agreeing with you.

[Model35mech]

31. Rationing requires a shared unity of purpose within society

Resistance to imposition of rationing would seem an indicator shared unity doesn't exist.

The same could be said for reducing speed to save fuel. For the last month I-94 traffic in WI has been doing 80-85 in posted 70 mph zones. I have no sense that a majority is willing to take slightly more time traveling to reduce use and thereby demand.

Identifying as personally privileged means never accepting being mandated to contribute to a greater good for society.

Sharing a burden in a common cause is antithetic to the perception that personal rewards follow from privilege.

[Bettie]

32. There are no shortages

just high prices because there is no competition in the industry and they can charge whatever they want to.

I get where you are coming from, but rationing is unnecessary.

Also, our population is very different than it was in the 40's. Lots more ugly people with a "Fuck you! I do what I want!" attitude.

Unfortunately, there is no "pull together and we'll all benefit" going on now.

[Baggies]

35. Cute!