A speculation about outsourcing -

[hedgehog]

It used to be that if you bought an American label appliance, it lasted forever. Now, you had to pay for that because things were overbuilt. Substitute a piece of plastic for metal, go to a lower gauge wire and you have a less expensive product that doesn't last as long.

Now, I don't want to go into a discussion of that . Some manufacturers passed the savings on with lower prices, others sold cheap crap under a formerly reliable label. What I want to discuss is a new phenomenon: loss of manufacturing control.

It used to be that a given product was pretty consistent: if you bought a GE Double X iron, either every GE Double X iron was great or every GE iron was a piece of shit. You knew that if you wanted a good iron, you bought the Triple X. Or you knew that the Double X was fine. Either way, you knew what you were buying.

Now, go to Amazon or target or any other big site that sells appliances and check the reviews: they are all over the place. One person loves a vacuum, the next person describes how it fell apart into its component parts the first time it was plugged in. When small appliances were made in America, they were made at specific sites under company control. Someone somewhere was responsible for every unit that went out. Now I think they are made under contract with an assortment of suppliers. And maybe last June the buyer in Nanjing got a deal on widget 25, so his outfit made a slightly bigger profit. Unfortunately, 6000 customers got a blender with that widget and it broke after 2 hours. So maybe this November, the blenders were made by a shop in Hanoi. The widgets were up to spec, but that contractor ran the line a little fast and the soldering at point Z is weak.

If this is what is happening, it shows how the American consumer is just as screwed by outsourcing as the American worker.

[tawadi]

1. Of course the consumer is screwed

Cheap means cheap.

[hedgehog]

5. Again, this isn't about cheap vs expensive -

it's about not being able to judge what you are paying for until you have it home and in use. Your neighbor can buy Product X and sing its praises to the high heavens. You go out and buy the same product, except that your machine was made six months later at a different factory using parts from a different supplier. Your neighbor has a gem and you have a POS!

Corporations like GE and Black and Decker used to manufacture things. Now more and more they design and market things. No one is doing quality control!

[tawadi]

12. The true definition of cheap used to mean inferiror

That was my point.

[DocMac]

2. Thats why people should build their own stuff

when they can. Book shelves, coffee and end tables, picnic tables, etc.

You can get drawings and instructions for building these and other things for free online.

I got a Shaker wall clock kit and built it from red oak. That was 1999 and it still works fine.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

3. Did you hear the one about the guy that built his own toaster?

True story!
http://www.npr.org/books/titles/143224422/the-toaster-project-or-a-heroic-attempt-to-build-a-simple-electric-appliance-fro

[DocMac]

4. LOl!! That guy just needed something to do.

He could have mowed the lawn of his entire neighborhood and had some $ to show for it.

I don't like to see people playing with electricity unless they understand it.

See, I would have stopped as soon as I saw 400 components.

[Nay]

6. Don't forget that the price squeeze that Walmart puts on small electronics suppliers has been shown

to force those companies to contract with who-knows-who to produce a more cheaply made product for Walmart, but it is allowed to put that cheesier product IN THE SAME BOX, WITH THE SAME MODEL #, as the better-built product sold in higher-end stores. In other words, you find that great deal at Walmart on the GE Double X iron, and you think it's the same iron you priced at the appliance store, BUT IT ISN'T. This should be illegal, but seems it's not.

[hedgehog]

7. I'll have to keep that in mind.

I wonder how that applies to certain large on-line retailers?

[WingDinger]

8. Um, I was a product designer, moldmaker.

First off, plastic is not always lower quality. Second, planned obsolescence, is built in, for a reason. And since you finely engineer in failure, that makes quality control MORE important.

As an example, a fellow moldmaker was told by a boss, to grind down the core, on a trashcan mold. It had significant weld aplied to it. He asked, what was wrong with the product? Boss said, nothing, they just wouldnt wear out. So, thin the cross section on the bottom.

to add to this, they print on any device, no user serviceable parts.

Also, when you move the plant to far away, packaging, shipping and wait time, makes customer service, and warranty moot.

Breakage, is a term that applies. In rebates, it is the bother. Or time limits etc.

[hedgehog]

9. Sometimes plastic serves a vital purpose -

for example - my thirty year old stand mixer has a small plastic gear in the drive train. If the beater is jammed or overloaded, the gear breaks. It's a lot easier and cheaper to open up the mixer and replace a plastic gear than a burnt out motor!
Planned obsolescence has two meanings. One is silly; for example adding tail fins to a car or new gimmicks to a cell phone to make last year's model look old fashioned and worthless. The other type of planned obsolescence is to design a product for a certain life span and select components accordingly. For example, if you figure a radio should last 10 years, you don't install a switch that will last 20 years. All that does is add cost to the product without increasing its usefulness.

[sad sally]

13. Thank you for validating something I've said every time a toaster goes kaput.

Husband has told me for years I break 'em; I've said, no, they're built to break so we'll have to buy a new one - keep the cycle going.

[WingDinger]

14. Actually, I;m a terrible designer. I only know how to make things last.

course, it takes a LOT of testing, to verify that the device will fail, AFTER, and not before the warranty runs out.

[hedgehog]

16. You can pay big bucks for a monster toaster that will last, but

who wants to do that?

One good reason for planned obsolescence is that it allows you to take advantage of the latest technology. My in-laws are very proud of their 30 year old refrigerator. It has to be manually defrosted, has no ice maker and consumes more power than a new model would. Both my brother and i are getting along fine with our 15 year old televisions, but obviously they don't have the features of a new flat screen!

[Zalatix]

10. The problem is planned obsolescence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002172345

[hedgehog]

11. I'm thinking of a problem that is the opposite of planned obsolescence.

Planned obsolescence implies that every single model of a machine has a particular life span: this car will go 100,000 miles, that iron will last 1000 hours, that waffle maker will go for 200 hours, etc. You can make a car that will last forever, but it will be too expensive for anyone to buy.

What I'm talking about is a collapse in quality control. It used to be that certain brand names implied a certain quality. You knew that you could buy an off brand for a cheaper price, but you also knew that there was apt to be some sort of problem with the off brand. You made the decision to pay extra for quality or go with something cheap for the moment. The problem is that you have no idea what you're getting for your money any more. I buy an iron and it lasts forever. You buy the same iron at the same store, and it lasts 2 hours before it burns out.

[WingDinger]

15. Those good brands, are cyclical.

Build your brand, then rest on that, to rake in profits. Let quality slide, till you suffer for it. Start over. And as for off brands, almost all the good brands, retag.

The real problem is customer service in general.

Oh, and quality control inspectors arent mechanically adept. They only know what they need to know. As a process eng, I taught more, and studied their procedures, as much as production. Most couldnt speak english.