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Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:07 PM

I've lost 30%

Look, I'm in the top 20% of incomes. The events that DO affect me is that in the last year I've lost 30% of my investments. I'm not looking for sympathy because of course in the 20 - 21 time frame I doubled my investments despite any real effort or strategy on my part.

My real point is this. I don't "blame" Biden for this. My investments rise and fall on the benefits of many people. What I achieve and don't isn't about me, it's about whether we are ALL doing well. I'm willing to understand that in really good times , I benefit from the overall improvement in what we call "our economy". But I also understand that when it "goes down" it is because I'm part of an economy that effects us all and I may "suffer" a greater impact in certain situations than others, and also benefit disproportionately on the up side.

My basic point is this, I don't care politically about the DOW. I don't care about NASDAQ (despite how much it influences my own "wealth". What I care about, despite my personal situation, is how many people are on WIC. How many need free lunches at school. I see people at corners asking for money and food. Yeah, I know, but some of them really need help, just not necessarily money. So I carry food bags of edibles of chicken, tuna, peanut butter, fruit, etc. I'm the classic democrat in which I'm more concerned every day if someone is not getting what they need, than what the basic republicans wakes up every day concerned about is that someone, somewhere is getting something they don't deserve

We need to stop worrying about "me", i.e. the top 20%. We need to worry about those that are having trouble balancing their check book. You want to worry about who will benefit, help the bottom 20% and you'll help the top 20%. Call it "trickle up" or whatever you want, but when we all do better, we ALL do better. Raise taxes on me, I should have been paying Social Security taxes for the whole year, for the last 10 years of my career, not just until October when I hit the "maximum". It was a joke.

A basic measure of any economic measure at the governmental level should be this, will it help the bottom 20%. If it does, it will help everyone. The rest of us will accommodate whatever situation that creates. But trickle DOWN has been demonstrated to never work. Trickle up on the other hand has always benefited my investments.

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Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply I've lost 30% (Original post)
zipplewrath Sep 22 OP
Maraya1969 Sep 22 #1
Walleye Sep 22 #2
True Blue American Sep 22 #12
Walleye Sep 22 #13
True Blue American Sep 22 #20
viva la Sep 22 #3
ret5hd Sep 22 #4
maxrandb Sep 22 #5
TeamProg Sep 22 #7
soldierant Sep 22 #27
TeamProg Sep 22 #6
zipplewrath Sep 22 #11
edhopper Sep 22 #24
zipplewrath Sep 22 #29
edhopper Sep 23 #34
True Blue American Sep 22 #15
doc03 Sep 22 #8
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 22 #9
True Blue American Sep 22 #18
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 23 #30
True Blue American Sep 23 #31
Evolve Dammit Sep 22 #10
brooklynite Sep 22 #17
Evolve Dammit Sep 23 #38
JohnSJ Sep 22 #14
True Blue American Sep 22 #19
JohnSJ Sep 22 #22
brooklynite Sep 22 #16
multigraincracker Sep 22 #21
llmart Sep 22 #25
edhopper Sep 22 #23
Bucky Sep 22 #26
Warpy Sep 22 #28
True Blue American Sep 23 #32
Warpy Sep 23 #36
True Blue American Sep 23 #39
Warpy Sep 23 #40
True Blue American Sep 23 #42
FreepFryer Sep 23 #33
Johnny2X2X Sep 23 #35
Dysfunctional Sep 23 #37
RazzleCat Sep 23 #41
True Blue American Sep 23 #43
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 23 #44

Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:15 PM

1. I lost a lot too but then I look at what my house is going for and it's kind of

a wash. Plus I realize that the stock market will go up and down. I just don't look at it as much when it's going down.

Also I still feel very fortunate to have a retirement at all. Because a lot of people don't.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:16 PM

2. Yes, a society is judged on how they treat the less fortunate among us

I have lost money in my investment account as well. Iím nowhere near the top 20%. A couple of times in the 80s I maxed out on Social Security. Anybody who invests in the stock market expecting it to always go up is in for a rude awakening. I remember 1987 October. Iím lucky in that I could actually live on my Social Security if I had to

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Response to Walleye (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:11 PM

12. I also know the market can go up

As fast as it came down. Happened during the Bush recession. Came back,earned a lot more.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:14 PM

13. I have learned not to panic over the stock market.

Thank you FDR and all the rest of the Democrats for getting us Social Security

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Response to Walleye (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:26 PM

20. Republicans are threatening to gut it all if they win.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:19 PM

3. Last year I gained about 10%

This year lost much of it. But oh, well, easy come easy go.
And investments are "easy come" compared to working for a living.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:20 PM

4. I have posted before:

Why the f@@@ are the rich so fín worried that us ďlesser-thansĒ get anything???

I mean, it all ends up on their pockets anyway. Within 2 or 3 transactions, itís ALL back to them!

Buy some clothes? Walmart thanks you!
Pay the electric bill? PG&E thanks you!
Buy some food? Safeway thanks you!
Pay the rent? Some investment fund thanks you!

Even if you spend your paycheck at the neighbor kids lemonade stand, within a few transactions it is ALL back in their pocket anyway!

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:29 PM

5. I have always been told

You don't lose anything until you sell for a loss. Markets go up. Markets go down. I just stopped looking at my TSP and won't look again until I need to start drawing it.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:34 PM

7. Exactly. nt

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:45 PM

27. Until you hit age 70 and a half,

if it's a 401(k), that's true.

However, I don't have the option to forego a minimum required distribution payout, which is roughly based on the balance at the time the payout is made.

Fortunately, I don't need that to live. However much or little it is will go into my cushion (which took a hit this year but hopefully won't again soon, and I still have over half of what it was..)

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:33 PM

6. 30% ?! Yikes. Something is wrong. If you invested any time before the last two years you should

still be UP from when you first invested.

Perhaps you mean DOWN 30%, you haven't actually LOST anything forever until you sell low.


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Response to TeamProg (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:01 PM

11. This

Like I said, in the 20-21 time frame I doubled. I'm 30% down from my peak of 2021. I'm still "up" overall, which generally is true of most investments. Over 10 years one is generally "up" in absolute terms. And really, even comparing to putting one's money in a fixed interest account, one will generally find themselves "up".

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:03 PM

24. The Dow topped at 36,000

It's now about 30,000. That's off 20% from a temporary high.
What were you invested in to lose so much?
A good diversified portfolio shouldn't be down more than 10% from that short term high.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 11:14 PM

29. Agrressively invested

I'm relatively aggressively invested in that I don't need any of it for about 10 years. Which is to say I'm willing to take significant short term risk for long term gain.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 07:42 AM

34. I see

Well you have to accept the risk then.
Outside of a fascist take over in 2024, you should do pretty well.

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Response to TeamProg (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:17 PM

15. Much like the opposite.

Gamblers tell you how much they won. Not a word about how much they lost.

In this case nothing about how much they gained over the last years, but how much they lost this year.!

On the other hand wages are way up, SS recipients get a 10% raise this year. Interest rates for savers going up., inflation will ease.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:34 PM

8. The value of my investments are probably down 20% too. But since I haven't sold them I

haven't lost anything. Last year they were up probably that much, this year they are down.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:45 PM

9. I understand.

My investments are down a similar amount. I happen to have an excellent financial advisor who I trust very much. He has done very well for me over the years. In retirement (I'm 74) my income has gone up. Not a huge amount, but enough to keep me comfortable.

Early in my working life, in the mid-70s, I maxed out the SS deduction for the last two paychecks, and it was astonishing how very much more my paycheck was, even though it wasn't a lot of money.

I have volunteered at a local homeless shelter. I donate food or money to various food or money things. I have more than once mailed checks to personal friends in need.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:22 PM

18. We always looked forward to that max out time. As if you got a raise.

At first it was gained in 6 months, then they raised it. Win some,lose some. You are quite right on a broker or adviser.. For years Mutual Funds averaged 8%.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 03:40 AM

30. Over time, the Dow gains 10%. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes a negative number.

Two out of three years the Dow goes up. Investing and hanging in there is the best plan.

My advisor is wonderful. He is politically far more conservative than I am, but we tend to avoid such conversations. He explains his investing strategies in appropriate detail. He makes sure we speak at least four times a year, and sometimes more often. He doesn't want me to be left behind, not understanding what is going on with the investments.

I am very happy with what he's done for me. One thing is that about a decade ago he got me into two annuities. I know that annuities are generally trashed here on DU, but trust me, they can be wonderful. As mine have been. About two years ago I started taking payouts from them. The payouts are guaranteed money. One annuity has actually upped its payout twice in the past two years, because the basis has increased, hence the increased payout. Not a lot of money, but still nice.

The other investments through him are such that while on the up side I may not go as high, the down side is much lower than the Dow itself. Which is very reassuring. The end result is that I have a stable income, and stable investments. I am very fortunate to have this man as my investment advisor.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 04:28 AM

31. I just left Spectrum

For Metrnet. Then I began to get cards from Spectrum that I was eligible for free internet, letters, phone calls. I finally agreed. Government program, apparently from the infrastructure bill. I know most of the programs are for low income. No questions about that. I now have free internet. The service man said he understood it was for 2 years.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 08:57 PM

10. Good post. Got out when Orange Chosen One was threatening "fire and fury". It's legalized gambling

anyhow.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:22 PM

17. No, it is not "gambling"....

Unless you're investing blindly or emotionally, in which case you shouldn't be investing. Gambling is generally against a random outcome. The market is not one.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:51 AM

38. I think 1929 would dispute that

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:15 PM

14. I lost nothing. You only lose if you have to sell at a loss

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:24 PM

19. I watched many get scared

Cashed out their Mutual funds, lost a bundle. Not me,soon went up,gained.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:42 PM

22. A good number of people panic and do that. Some have to because they need the money

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:20 PM

16. I have too, BUT...

My investments are my investments until I cash them out. In the medium to long term I expect them to recover much of their value.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:27 PM

21. Now in my 70s and find that I'm

spending less and less every year now.

Most of my investments are in good quality stocks with a history of dividends. SS, pension and those dividends are working well and I sleep good at night. No loans like car or house notes.
If I had to, I could make it without my investments.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:23 PM

25. I am in the same place as you are.

In my 70's and having to take my RMD's. I lived without that money before and was just fine, but I have been a frugal, non-materialistic person all my life, have lived below my means all my life. Yes, it's nice to have those monthly RMD checks, but I can live without them, so they sit in the account most of the time. I haven't used credit for years. No mortgage, no loans, no credit card debt.
I feel sorry for people who become so attached to material possessions. I mean that in a kind way. It's so freeing not to have the worry about it all.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:53 PM

23. Your

Investments have too much risk. The Dow is down less than 20%

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:34 PM

26. My portfolio is down 17% over the last 2years. That just means prices are going down before the next

I fear we won't get a surge like what Obama gave us till we get some real buying power back in the working class's budgets

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 11:12 PM

28. "Trickle up" is actually called the multiplier effect

Every dollar spent at the bottom increases in value as labor is needed in order to spend it: farmers, processors, transport, warehouses, more transport, retail, as demand increases for goods and services.

Trickle down is infamous because it doesn't. Every dollar spent at the top pretty much sits there, there are only so many personal jets, yachts, seasonal mansions, and such that people want, so it inflates things like the stock market and scarce items like art and antiques. It employs very few and a constantly inflating stock market makes sure the money stays where it is and doesn't budge into the larger economy. And while crumbs might occasionally fall from the banquet table, they don't fall far.

I've been trying to explain this shit for 55 years (my dad called me a Communist). Now that "trickle down" has been proven to be such a catastrophic failure for 99% of the people in this country, maybe people who aren't on DU will finally listen. DU has been ahead of them since I've been here.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 04:36 AM

32. If you do not have the money, do not buy.

Credit cads are great but pay them off every month.

Many places are now charging if you use a credit card. I tod my Son long ago to read the small print. He noticed on vacation a small sign that said,10 cents a gallon if you use a credit card!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #32)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 09:38 AM

36. Oh, hell, just invest in a paperback cookbook and learn how to cook

Scratch cooking saved me more money than anything else ever did. It doesn't have to be elaborate and it can be quick.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #36)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 12:11 PM

39. I have done scratch cooking

Last edited Fri Sep 23, 2022, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)

All my life. Came from a long line of great cools

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #39)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 01:13 PM

40. My own mother hated cooking and it showed

so I had to learn out of books. Julia Child also came to the rescue.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #40)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 02:05 PM

42. Sorry my post was messed up.

I can tell you today Food Network is my best friend! No matter how good you are, there is always something new to learn and experimenting is half the funn.

Making peanut butter or chocolate fudge from 2 items? A jar of peanut butter and a can of cake icing makes, soft creamy fudge. Who knew? Chocolate chips, icing,same, or white chocolate chips?

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 04:42 AM

33. speculation is speculation because its speculative. if you invest, invest long term & leave it alone

hawking and second guessing your strategy by chasing a chaotic market is a great way to lose big

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 08:05 AM

35. I've lost nothing

You only lose if you sell.

If I invest $100K and it goes to $150K, and then back down to $120K, what did I lose?

Most people are in blended funds that take a lot of the risk out of their 401Ks anyways. My balance is down maybe 7% from its high.

And top 20% is middle class. Here's the problem, even top 10% is still middle class, the problem is that the rest of the 80% has a lower standard of living today that they did a few decades ago. Trickle down didn't work.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 11:08 AM

37. I have been out of the market for a long time.

When I owned stocks, I did not consider their worth as mine until I sold them.

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Response to zipplewrath (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 01:59 PM

41. I just did the math, I am down 23% but

I have also withdrawn funds, so more like 20%. My investment advisor has always told me that at some point I have to be emotionally prepared to expect to loose up to 50% at any given time and to be financially prepared to ride out that sort of loss. So I am financially prepared to pare my self down if I should loose so much.

Unlike some other posters I am retired, so that the losses are very scary as this is what I have planed to live on for the rest of my life, but again I have been told over and over to be set to take a huge loss at any given time, and budget myself to live on just my retirement/Social Security monies if I have to. I can mostly do so, but they do not cover any extras including unexpected expenses such a major home repairs etc.

Another poster commented on the increased value of there home, and I do not consider it an asset, it is not liquid and if you sell it you still need to purchase another one, so even if downsizing the realized gains are not the entire value of you home just a percentage of if. So I sell my home for 550K, go to downsize I will need to spend around 330K then add in moving costs, agent fee's etc. and the profit is not that much. Remember if your home is rising in value so are all the homes you may move to, excluding leaving a HCL area for a less expensive location.

With all that rambled off, I don't blame the current administration, its just the way the market is. If you put money in over the long term you will realize a profit, but you need to accept downturns and keep the ability to just ride them out with out the need to sell when they happen. To those who are going to say use bonds and annuities, they are valid, but they don't keep up with inflation. If I have a bond returning say 5% its loosing vs our current inflation, so I am invested in mostly blue chip dividend stocks at this time. Current annual dividend amount anticipated earnings are 40K a year.

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Response to RazzleCat (Reply #41)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 02:10 PM

43. Yes, sounds like a lot of profit

When you paid 1/3rd of that for a house, but it is paper profit if you buy another. The only ones who make money are those who do not buy another house.

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Response to RazzleCat (Reply #41)

Fri Sep 23, 2022, 02:45 PM

44. To be prepared to lose up to 50% at any given time

suggests to me that your advisor has you invested far more aggressively than you should be. And the most important thing is not to panic sell in a downturn.

My advisor got me in to two different annuities about ten years ago, and I started taking payments about three years ago. People here like to trash annuities, but there are some very good ones out there, which my two are. Whatever residual value is left when I die, that will go to my beneficiary. Meanwhile, one of them has slightly increased payments recently, which is nice. We're talking an increase of $4.00 per month, but it's still nice.

I am 74, and while I live alone quite nicely for now, I anticipate that some day I will want to go into independent/assisted living. The sale of my home should help finance that.

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