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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSingle dad trying to take back home occupied by OWS
OWS leaders and Brooklyn Councilman Charles Barron, an OWS supporter, met with Ahadzi before the press conference to discuss the future of his property, he said. Ahadzi hoped that the group would help him regain his footing.
Why cant you fight for me? he asked them.
They told me I dont qualify, he said. So my lawyer asked what the qualifications are. [They said] I have to be with an organization and theyll deal with the bank and you have to be homeless.
They said they couldnt help me, he added.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/ows_home_invasion_z9ApqDP6Q0boFviq8CjvAL
This is pretty fucked up.
Broderick
(4,578 posts)On many different levels too.
RKP5637
(67,101 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
hack89
(39,171 posts)Broderick
(4,578 posts)Can you post a source that isn't either Rupert Murdoch run or a right winger site?
Please don't sit there and claim that Murdoch and Murdoch controlled media are not known to twist the truth, or outright tell lies.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)YOU provide some evidence.
And YOU really should offer some reason why you are so opposed to OWS if you don't want people to question your history of extreme bias against the movement, and pretty much doubt the credibility of such posts.
If I posted material that constantly was anti-Democratic, or anti-Obama, I'd expect people to not exactly take me seriously if I posted yet another thing that was anti-Dem. You know?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Here is where it is.
Conservative News
FNC
NYP
Sorry, but this sounds like Debka creating a story line. Standard thing in explosive things like this is... WHO the fuck is running it? When you have no others picking this up, it usually means that there is more to the story than what FNC is presenting.
Just in case you have forgotten Murdoch is still in the midst of a scandal in the UK for making up the news and breaking privacy laws. And the FBI is looking at them for some of the same shit.
That is just a tad of dot connecting to you, not that it will matter to you.
Look, you always have to look beyond just it is on the web... m'kay
hack89
(39,171 posts)ok - I understand your reluctance to dig too deep.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am just telling you that there is a LOT MORE to that story than FNC or New York Post is telling you.
Digging really deep means CALLING this father and asking some pointed questions... Since I am in San Diego, and we rarely do stories outside the county (though we are right now)... well I have to call the Sheriffs on a guy who escaped after murdering somebody on Tuesday. That be in San Diego County.
But word of advise, anytime you see any explosive story that is NOT picked outside a series of publications owned by the same owner, that raises some questions. The exception to this rule are Reuters and AP, since they are picked up by like everybody and their sister.
Will give you an example since I used Debka as an example, We are working on a story involving Syria. Debka, which writes some creative news... mentioned a base on the Latakia mountains for Bashar el Assad and his cronies. Ok... that sounds interesting, even half way plausible. When I did a deep google search I got one FB page claiming same... after that BUCKUS... you think I believe Debka on this? They have a history of creative writing... though they are good for fiction ideas, I will grant you that.
FNC has a similar problem, especially after it's problems in the UK. And the NY Post is known to be creative with their news. Remember News of the World? They have similar issues.
hack89
(39,171 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You take a second hand quote from BoA at face value, when you are perfectly capable of looking at the title record for the property in question yourself.
hack89
(39,171 posts)"I am just telling you that there is a LOT MORE to that story than FNC or New York Post is telling you."
So why is she unwilling to tell us the rest of the story? Perhaps because she pulled it out of her ass?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I wasn't appointed den mother.
However, a statement from BoA indirectly quoted in the Post is not what I consider to be authoritative either.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)the mortgage which you said banks don't buy.
If the foreclosure proceeded as usual, they bought it in 10 of 2008 then sent a 60 day notice to vacate which puts them about 2009.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)look at what cerridwen found
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=172481
Now those are hard facts that don't require anybody to check, And what I told you on how you deal with explosive information is standard journalistic practice, not a secret, or part of a secret society.
hack89
(39,171 posts)they purchased it the year before foreclosure.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)has no claim to it. See how that works and why the Post pulled that story out of it's ass?
Good.
We are done...
If you cannot understand this, I really cannot help you, I suspect you do not want to understand, but that is another story. You are, as it's been noted, on an Anti OWS warpath. Look on the bright side, I am disgusted with this place (not about OWS) right at the moment. And quite frankly have a story that is tragic, but at least not in rabbit holes, to pursue. So quite frankly, at this point I really do not particularly care how many ways from here to Sunday you try to prove to the world that OWS is an ugly anti obama conspiracy, probably funded by the Koch brothers.... I am sure you'd believe that. I forgot they are also collectivist, socialists and communists too.
Have a good day.
hack89
(39,171 posts)the one that has been conveniently overlooked.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)you are on a crusade and take Murdoch's word for it, good luck with that.
1.- Reporter has a history of writing biased stories re OWS
2.- The NYP has a history of writing creative fiction in general.
3.- Explosive story staid within the universe of Murdoch Media
Have fun with that...
Yes, there is a far out chance that like stuck clock they gave you all the facts and have a hot story... but they do not have that reputation.
I guess if Murdoch printed that OWS ate a child you'd believe it too...
There are news papers in this country that run yellow journalism and that are not usually trusted for anything... the Post is one of them.
So good luck with that, and you keep posting stories that ONLY run on the POST... that happens to have that reputation.
By the way, I will admit it. I read the post... for the same reason I read Debka... STORY and in FICTION story ideas.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)are you missing? The property was foreclosed in 2009.
If you want to take the word of a paper just above the National Enquirer, that for the record has actually broken some hard news... good luck with that.
The rest of us are free and clear to question your source from here to sunday, as well, at this point, as your motives.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nothing has been provided to show foreclosure.
I have shown that there were two mortgages - you choose to focus on the much smaller 2nd mortgage and ignore the first one. The large mortgage of $339,000 has not been sold or transferred.
I have shown that the deed for the property has not been transferred to BoA.
And I have provided a quote from BoA saying they are not the owner.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)have a good life, welcome to my ignore list. I really do not have time to take your hand, and at this point I am CONVINCED you will believe the NY Post when they run the inevitable, murder tied to OWS, or drug trafficking or what have you. And they will. You are DESPERATE to believe anything bad about them, and I mean anything... since they will not play your games. So like Randome, join him.
Good bye, and good luck in the General. Some of us will be busy covering actual history, while you keep them partisan glasses on.
hack89
(39,171 posts)from the same source.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)What followed should have been a notice of sale followed by a notice to vacate. That would have put them about 2009.
Of course, if the nypost says it happened in 2009 I'd start checking that out, too.
But, as previously noted, my time today is limited.
hack89
(39,171 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)but it's worth only $150,000.
Do you believe this "day trader" wants his grossly underwater property back?
What has he done to show a good faith desire to live in the home?
He moved out years ago, enrolled his children in schools in another neighborhood. He did nothing when the police initially called him to tell him about squatters.
This a pretty crappy attempt to smear OWS, honestly. The dude is not credible and the Post is not credible. OWS is right to try to help out Ahadzi's old neighbors by renovating the property he (and/or the bank) left vacant and abandoned.
hack89
(39,171 posts)what's the point of fighting against the system - it is foolish to think anyone can take on the big banks. Oh wait - isn't that what OWS is all about? Fixing the system and righting wrongs?
What bunch of hypocrites. And there are the enablers like yourself that immediately attack the only victim in this story - the guy who lost his house.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Is he alleging foreclosure fraud? Did his mortgage broker forge documents? Did the loan agent lie to him? Does he actually have a legal argument here?
This guy appears to have walked away from his house. Smart move on his part, and one that I fully support. But since he left, the property has been neglected. Occupy did the right thing here, start to finish. They have nothing to answer for.
hack89
(39,171 posts)sounds like some bankers I know.
Do you agree that the housing bubble was a huge scam concocted by Wall Street to siphon off billions of dollars of the public's money? And that there were many innocent victims caught up in it? Except this guy of course - he got what he deserved I take it?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)The critics complain that OWS is just lazy kids trying to get free stuff.
Here OWS has done the right thing to try and restore a blighted neighborhood and to help a homeless family. There is really nothing they can do for Ahadzi. He will never get the house back unless he can demonstrate crimes were committed by the bank (and even then, the odds would be stacked against him). His mortgage is simply too far underwater.
The banks would have Ahadzi strapped to this mortgage forever, if they could. I was one of the people who vociferously supported strategic defaults from the very beginning of the housing crash. Ahadzi defaulted so he did get what he deserved: freedom from an unbearable debt load on a grossly inflated property. If he just wants a free house, he should go see Oprah. That's not what OWS is about.
hack89
(39,171 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Ahadzi stopped paying years ago and the foreclosure process is well underway.
If he wants the house, he needs to make an effort by sending in payments or by fighting for the property in some manner. By abandoning the house and letting it rot, renting in another neighborhood, enrolling his children in schools in another neighborhood and ignoring police calls about squatters living in the property, Ahadzi has demonstrated that he is not interested in making this his home.
randome
(34,845 posts)But I think you're right about this.
hack89
(39,171 posts)So there is time to stop the foreclosure - right? The Bank could work with him - right? Except he has no one powerful to fight for him and OWS just stabbed him in the back.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)So NY Post good.. DU bad... Got it.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)OWS is such a clusterfuck. Disappointing.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)You've been anti-OWS with a passion. I genuinely wonder why. Anything you can think of to smear the protests, make snide comments about it, or generally display disapproval with OWS, you do so with zeal.
Care to explain why you have such an extreme bias against OWS?
hack89
(39,171 posts)lets stick to the facts instead of smearing the bearers of unpopular messages, shall we?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to ask what your motivations are in constantly bashing OWS. Do I support this? No, and it harms the movement - if it actually happened as stated. This is a Murdoch run publication, after all.
Questioning your motivations, however, seems pretty reasonable. Just what do you have against OWS as a whole, this incident notwithstanding?
hack89
(39,171 posts)there is an election coming up and they are doing everything in their power to make them selves irrelevant. We need their help electing Democrats to office. Shit like this or "fuck the police" parades are stupid and damaging.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)A RUPERT MURDOCH site, that would do ANYTHING to smear anything remotely liberal? LOL. Excellent strategy.
Again, why do you hate OWS? I don't believe all of this "Fuck the Police" parade business that right wingers and rw media and sites spew.
Why do you, and why would you want to do something to support the RW?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Can't answer a direct question so you go on the attack and accuse me of exactly what you are now doing? LOL.
Nice try.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If you critically examine them.
See my post downthread.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)EDIT: Excuse me, I responded because I thought you were responding to me. Later, I realized you were responding to the other person. I'll let this stand because it is my opinion, but know that this isn't directed at you since I have later discovered my mistake.
There is a LOT of spin going on here. I'm not going to take the word of a Rupert Murdoch rag and a clearly anti-OWS poster that this article is all there is to the story, and neither should any thinking person.
Bias is bias. If this is the truth, I will condemn the actions of this part of the group. Don't expect me to condemn the entire movement, however, with a broad brush as the OP has attempted to do. It's a movement with many actors and no clear leaders. I don't condemn all Democrats on the basis of one Democratic party affiliate's actions, so don't expect me to do that here, either.
It shocks me that on the word of one very anti-OWS poster there are those eager to condemn the entire movement. Sorry, I won't be doing so any time soon.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"desperately trying to renegotiate his mortgage"
He's been "desperately trying to renegotiate his mortgage" for four years?
Really? He's still trying to "renegotiate his mortgage" after foreclosure has completed and title belongs to the bank?
That's the steamy essence of something rising up out of that bouquet of words.
He's suddenly come out of the fog several years later, and frankly, it looks like he's just trying to capitalize off of the publicity any way that he can. Naturally, the NY Post doesn't care about whether or not it's true as long as it pushes a Murdoch point of view.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)vehicle notorious for its infidelity to the truth.
Shame on the OP for posting this drivel here.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I was starting to think that this was a genuine screw-up by OWS, but now I'm starting to think otherwise.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and we all took different angles, You might want to read the thread.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and article from the NY Post, since they tend to lie and distort the truth. If someone posted something from Fox News condemning Obama, I'd be equally skeptical, as should anyone else.
Zhade
(28,702 posts)We're not interested in enabling a broken and corrupt system where both parties fuck the little guy and gal over.
That explains why you hate on OWS so consistently -- you don't get it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)are those of us that support Democrats and their campaigns the enemy of OWS?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)No serious. NOT WORKING on his campaign does not mean they oppose it. IF they were working for oh RON PAUL... you'd have a point. They are NOT endorsing any NATIONAL candidate... and they may, don't count on it, endorse a local candidate. Even that... pigs fly.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)This didn't start with Obama, and it won't end with his re-election, either. We need to raise consciousness about the issues facing our nation and that is beyond Party-A and Party-B. The discourse needs to change from that of being an opportunist-inclined nation to that of one that cares about everyone in our nation, and not at the expense of the most needy.
Changing the discourse doesn't happen in a battle between politician A and politician B. It happens when everyone in the nation starts talking about issues. That's where movements begin, after all, and that's when politicians, political parties, and debates refocus on what is important to the American people.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but they are NON PARTISAN... and it is a critique of the SYSTEM...
Chiefly CITIZENS UNITED.
Right under, the BANKING SYSTEM and A NATIONAL HEALTH SYSTEM.
The day OWS endorses a candidate, the way it is working right now, I will eat my shoe. Not saying it could NOT evolve that way... but RIGHT NOW... no, not really. That does not mean they are the enemies of EITHER PARTY in the way you are thinking it.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Declaring yourself "non partisan" when there's a choice between a party doing the best they can and one out to fuck the world is kind of like declaring yourself a pacifist for not taking sides between a mugger and a victim, and then patting yourself on the back for your moral purity. It is one big stinking pile of crap, and anyone with experience in politics should recognize that the trumpeting of "non partisan" causes is one more way of saying "let's decry politics while not doing anything at all to change it," another symptom of a simplified, low-information, and primarily outrage-driven view of government.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)To refocus the issues and keep bringing up the ones that important to many Americans. Look at what the movement has already done - it has moved the debate away from "OMG, BUDGET DEFICIT!" to more practical issues such as Wall Street accountability and reform.
The problem has been the conversation in political debate - most Americans could give two shits about the budget deficit if they can barely feed their families, keep their homes warm, and a roof over their head. They don't want to hear wealthy politicians talk about how they need to take personal responsibility when Wall Street got bailed out and is getting richer while politicians bicker about how deeply to cut them when they are already to the bone.
It's about CHANGING the DEBATE, not about changing the politician. Changing the politician is what political parties are for, and politicians are responsible for recognizing that the debate has changed.
Movements change the discourse and the debate. Partisanship is always about politics, problems are always about the problems themselves and recognizing them is achieved by discussing them, not ignoring them.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)By the way, here is a serious mistake you are making... I am willing to bet, from the OWSers I personally know, they are among the most politically aware and informed people I know. Low information is not precisely the term I would use. Now that is a term I would use with Tea Parties RIGHT NOW... and one reason the T Party is going away is precisely that these people are starting to realize how far they were used.
The problem for PARTISANS (on both sides) is that they cannot harness the energy in this social movement. And let's be honest, OWS is a direct challenge to the system... but that gets me into a whole different discussion. See my sig.
But I get it... why partisans (on both sides) feel that way.
If you want equivalents, well the Bonus March is a good example. They were non partisan either. Oh yes, before you say it, they got mowed by the army... and their camp was burned... but you know what? It was due to THAT that Americans became aware of a lot of shit... and you know what is even better? The New Deal is partly their doing. If they were at home starving to death there would have been zero pressure to do anything in DC... silly shit that happens with social movements.
You want to know ANOTHER non partisan movement? The Suffragettes...
Then there is the anti slavery movement...
Women's Rights, while right now mostly trending dem, did not start that way.
Civil rights, DITTO.
It is not my fault most people are quite ignorant of the damn arc... but I get it, why you feel this is just shit and wasted energy. Your predecessors felt the same way with many other social movements. I am so damn glad I am NOT a partisan. Makes looking at life not as a team sport much better. And this is particularly the case when it comes to politics.
hack89
(39,171 posts)if they come out against him, what do you plan to do?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)or Beoehner or the Koch brothers.
This is what is giving you tummy aches, Suffice it to say THIS CYCLE... SOME OWSers will run for office, it's already happening. But you will NOT see any General Assembly endorse a candidate.
You may see them endorse a state wide petition though.
They are not being critical of the President, they are being critical of the SYSTEM. I know this is so hard to wrap YOUR HEAD around. And for that I feel sorry, I truly do. Perhaps some day, well after the dust settles, you will figure out how far they have already pulled the administration to the LEFT. And how much the running on a populist agenda is coming straight from OWS. But for that, you wil need to take off those partisan glasses I fear.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)the movement is NON PARTISAN
Get over yourself, this has been explained to you MANY FRACKING TIMES. At this time I have to conclude you are incapable of comprehending that.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)your perception of the dynamics at work.
I'm a Democratic voting, work the campaigns, donate money, preaching in the checkout line kinda guy but I ain't really buying it.
I don't believe the people with votes believe it at all. The victim does not want bipartisanship with the mugger and the little engine that could doint their level best wouldn't end up getting some of the worst pieces through or making others a consensus.
Largely, we are reduced to fighting for their old (and often rejected) ideas which they pretend (and are allowed to pretend) are unholy, unAmerican, and Communist because we like to pretend our policies aren't yesterday's crappy Republican policies, the media is super lazy and is designed to distort and distract, and the political memory of such things is about as long as that of a goldfish.
Implementing the conservative agenda in a less brash and sane fashion than the current crop of the Birch Society that is all the rage on the Reich isn't the best we can do nor is facilitating many of the worst acts in lockstep.
We fucking de-funded ACORN for crying out loud and didn't need a single TeaPubliKlan vote to do it.
That said, Poppy seems a saner choice than Romney, Nixon seems better suited than Paul, I'm more comfortable with Reagan over Gingrich, and hell if you wake me up in the middle of the night with a gun to my head I'd give shrub the thumbs up over Dog on man. So much the better Barack Obama and the Turd Way Syndicate but nothing like a tolerably better position, just better because of the depths of depravity of the eagerly still digging opposition.
As a former thinker along these lines for many years, it is my observation that what we are doing is making the situation worse, not as bad as I'd imagine the worst the TeaPubliKlans could muster-not as fast anyway and in a more demographically fair way along the path.
More than a dime of my money in difference for sure but completely unacceptable no matter how far beyond shitty the out fascist party is willing to go.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but no, they will not be walking precincts, and if that is all you think involves politics, I feel sorry for you SOME OWSers will, but a GA will not endorse ANY candidate as of right now. Try taking those partisan glasses off for a minute. The world is not all about that.
hack89
(39,171 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and Mic Checks are fun.
(From a working reporter's point of view they are also quite the opportunity to get action photos)
hack89
(39,171 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)they already did
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And by trying to make it one, you just show how you misunderstand the movement. It's so much deeper than one politician or one political party. Those that keep trying to cram it into a little container so that it can be used by one politician or one political party prove that they really don't understand what it is about beyond using it for their own ends.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I am actively involved in a campaign - can I count on OWS to help?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because it isn't a political movement. That's what I mean - it's not meant to be used for any particular person's own end.
What campaign are you actively involved in, if I may ask?
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)And I think you can count on that for the foreseeable future.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And people need to wake up to that fact. You and I have disagreed on a few things, but on this, we are in absolute agreement. You can't change the politicians until you change what the issues are, and what is relevant to the political climate.
OWS has made the plight of the 99% noticed in the minds of the American people, which are the voters, after all. Before that, nobody gave a damn. This is an apolitical movement, but it will of course have political impact, and SHOULD. Politicians should be waking up and realizing that the American people are pissed - not about whether a woman has to make the horrible decision about whether to have an abortion, whether two people of the same sex are in love and get married, and whether children should be forced to study creationism in school.
The American people are pissed because our land of opportunity is being pissed away and handed over to the 1%, who won't even follow the rules they already have, much less the bullshit interpretations of "the rules" they want to enforce on every man woman and child in the 99%.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)They should start by EARNING it.
Just sayin...
BumRushDaShow
(128,712 posts)OWS is a diverse conglomeration of folks with a myriad of grievances needing to be addressed. And different sub-groups seem to form to take on a specific problem to focus on and these will plan non-violent actions that they feel will begin to address the grievance... E.g., whether to "occupy" a bank, setup food banks for homeless, or march against state, local, federal government in support of a variety of things (union, public education, anti-war, etc). This sub-group apparently "occupies" previously foreclosed homes (and have apparently done so in a number of cities).
So one cannot just broad-brush the actions of an individual or subgroup with some negative banner because of what that subset did that you don't agree with.
Hell, as an AA, I get broad-brushed 24/7 by the lamestream media every time some knucklehead AA teenage punk knocks down a pedestrian and runs away - and then here come the gasbags on the air, insisting that this one incident was a "black problem".
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Murdoch run. I'd take it at face value about as soon as I'd take Fox News or the World Nut Daily at face value.
BumRushDaShow
(128,712 posts)is the king of tabloids!
The rap group PE had a whole song dedicated to them - "A Letter to the New York Post".
"The worst piece of paper on the east coast"
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)if only to hold our own feet to the fire when there's a screw up.
Unless you have any other evidence that the father in the OP is somehow telling a bullshit story (do you?), I have to believe there's been a huge miscarriage of justice going on for the guy at the hands of OWS in this particular case.
Again, let me reiterate, I am a big supporter of OWS but I don't think covering up problems will help us
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I think I'll wait until I hear it from a less controversial source before I leap to conclusions that it is 100% true.
I also think it is valid to question the motivations of a person that has so far proved to have an extreme bias against the movement.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)We certainly don't have the full story here at all.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And thank you for saying that.
:hugs:
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)Spazito
(50,234 posts)I don't believe a damn thing that is printed there.
hack89
(39,171 posts)do you have any real facts about the matter that are different from the OP?
Spazito
(50,234 posts)and.....nada.
Yes, I have NO doubt the Murdoch empire would LIE about OWS, no doubt at all. The very concept of OWS is a threat to 1%ers like Murdoch and his enablers.
Do you have any facts that can be found outside of the Murdoch rag on this matter?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Spazito
(50,234 posts)there is NO other news website that can be found to have this 'story' on it. Thanks for backing me up on that!
One should not trust anything put out by the Murdoch-owned piece of crap known as the New York Post, imo.
We are waiting for you to link something that doesn't go straight to a RW rag or a RW site.
I would expect people to question me if I posted something from Fox News that seemed extremely damaging to any view that is "anti-corporatocracy".
obamanut2012
(26,050 posts)The onus is on the "accuser," which is you, to provide a source that isn't Murdoch. I can't find it anywhere else.
hack89
(39,171 posts)RedCloud
(9,230 posts)This happens way too frequently. RW smears whatever it can. Gullible snarf it up. You have not retreated one iota and blindly accept what they say.
How many times til folks get it? How many lies came out of RW rags in the past few years? 100? 1,000? At some point even the most naive have to say, "Well I finally learned my lesson!"
And have these smear rags ever "fixed" their lies completely?
That rag does not pass the credibility test.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Without fail, every story I could find either linked back to the NY Post or UK Daily Mail, both right-wing smear sites.
Spazito
(50,234 posts)Using NYP as a source for anything other than rightwing propaganda is a fool's errand, imo. The same goes for the Daily Mail and Fox News network.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)acknowledge that the NY Post just downright effing lies....on a regular basis. It bothers me that you've continually stuck up for the NY Post story and can't even acknowledge that the fact that this story isn't covered anywhere but a couple of right-wing rags (I found it in the Daily Mail, UK, too -- another right-wing rag that often takes its stories from Murdoch papers). At least acknowledge that YOU may not have all the facts. You keep insisting others don't have "facts," yet you're basing your "facts" on a right-wing Murdoch rag KNOWN to lie, twist the truth, omit information not in-keeping with their right-wing twist.
This is like taking something that Newt said about Obama as FACT. The NY Post is an equally reliable source.
LiberalFighter
(50,825 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I don't understand - he says he moved out shortly after foreclosure proceedings began. Nearly every TV news station has been bellowing "Don't move out until they kick you out since it can take years before the house is foreclosed on and sold.." So he moved out way too early, and had no idea that the house was still under his name. Then he finds out the house is under his name and OWS moved someone in and he's pissed. There's a few puzzle pieces missing here...
hack89
(39,171 posts)The Post visited the Vermont Street home last week six weeks after OWS announced that the Carrasquillos were moving in and the family was nowhere to be found.
In fact, the only people occupying the house were occupiers themselves.
They only stay here sometimes, a protester named Charlie said of the Carrasquillos. Theres not enough room for the kids.
salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)The guy claims he "lost his job as a day trader in 2009." I didn't realize people were actually employed to do day trading. I thought it was essentially highly risky self-employment at best. Admittedly, I'm not very knowledgeable about that kind of thing. On edit: Wiki says there are institutional day traders so I guess I'm wrong about that part.
On the other hand, it appears to me that OWS is using the poor family they claimed to be moving into the house as pawns in a public relations game. In other words, politics as usual.
hack89
(39,171 posts)The Post visited the Vermont Street home last week six weeks after OWS announced that the Carrasquillos were moving in and the family was nowhere to be found.
In fact, the only people occupying the house were occupiers themselves.
They only stay here sometimes, a protester named Charlie said of the Carrasquillos. Theres not enough room for the kids.
csziggy
(34,133 posts)There seem to be two in Brooklyn with that name - and one is the founder, publisher and CEO of WisePennyStocks.com. According to their website, "Wise Penny Stocks´ team of experts delve into the micro and small-cap world of stocks, searching for equities that are undervalued, yet show great promise of future growth."
This seems to fit with the "day trader" label of the guy whose house is in question. But he also seems like the sort that could be happy to work with a Murdock publication to discredit OWS.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)call the police lock them out, charge them. Sooner of later in this the bank is going to come and do a lockout, a 4yr old foreclosure. The owner can neither sell it or pay for it. Whats interesting how they think thay can just claim it.
niyad
(113,209 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)of the person posting it. This person has been a relentless OWS detractor. I think it is more than fair to question it and the motivations of the person posting it.
BumRushDaShow
(128,712 posts)niyad
(113,209 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)I just noted what was omitted. I would imagine that freep, and the other right wing site link to the Post article, just like DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I guess you must agree with the NY Post and the OP's take on it. It's entirely your business to do so, but I just figured I'd point out what was omitted.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Transparency. So I didn't omit it. Do you make a note of all your recs in your posts?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that such information is available.
Usually when I rec a thread, I do mention it somewhere.
It's pretty revealing of people's thought processes when you take the opportunity to see who recommends posts, particularly ones quoting unreliable sources, as good posts.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)to see who can rationalize theft. That's pretty black and white for me. I realize that it's pretty gray for many.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Wall Street has perpetrated enough theft to last a life time, yet I still see people justifying it as though those who steal billions, destroy hard-earned pensions and destroy lives are more honorable than someone who robs a convenience store at gunpoint threatening someone's life.
Equating what Wall Street did with people that moved into a house owned by a bank isn't even a fair comparison, since the people that moved into this house didn't evict anyone - BoA did. This false outrage that they are "squatting" and "stealing" by occupying a house taken away and owned by a bank from four years ago is rather sickening, wouldn't you agree?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)who owns it. Occupy doesn't. It's not theirs. It's that simple for me. So, no, I don't agree and I'm not going to.
I noticed you skirted the other points of my post, though.
Too many people have justified away Wall Street, defended them, and protected them while they destroyed families, lives and financial futures. I DO CARE if they are occupying a house owned by BoA, since it ultimately wasn't BoA's, either. BoA STOLE it from someone else by fooling investors into buying crap, coerced people into loans they shouldn't have gotten by lying to them, and then turned around and cried for a bailout from the taxpayers.
I care very much who owns it, and it isn't the financial institution that claims they own it by virtue of their wholesale theft from the American people.
Do you condemn the actions perpetrated by many actors on Wall Street to steal the pensions, homes and financial futures of Americans by fraudulently packing up securities that were crap and then getting them labeled as AAA so they could sell them and rob the public? Because if not, your self-righteous indignation about the definition of theft is hollow.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I simply stated my opinion. You obviously don't like the fact that I don't agree with you. I really don't care.
We'll just agree to disagree.
Peace to you.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)handmade34
(22,756 posts)occupy Brooklyn...
http://newspaper.occupybk.org/2011/12/16/updates-from-702-vermont-street/
hack89
(39,171 posts)a political activist associated with OWS? They couldn't find a real homeless family?
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Seriously, you might try getting out more and just see what sort of people have become very effective movers and shakers in our country. Homelessness has affected practically every single segment of society and organizing to build solidarity and actually do something about it is very much a grassroots movement.
hack89
(39,171 posts)why didn't OWS fight to help the owner?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is Countrywide (Now BoA), and has been for several years?
Why is this guy who is claiming it is his house's motive for speaking up now after he was foreclosed upon 4 years ago? Umm, he wants publicity, and if smearing OWS will get him a free house, he'll take it.
It's pretty plain on the face of things when you view the history of the property. He vacated the property years ago, it belongs to the bank.
hack89
(39,171 posts)from the OP:
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Property records have already revealed that the bank has owned it for four years.
If your source isn't credible, and the NY Post isn't credible by any stretch of the imagination, what difference does it make what that source says? They could say the earth is flat, and it wouldn't make it true just because they said they "confirmed" it.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)not fighting to help them, that's why.
How do you know that Occupy did not approach the former owner, the guy yapping in that article, first, to see if he would like to make a statement by joining the action to occupy his former home? How do know that OWS didn't try to engage that man, but he turned them down?
And people are "hand picked" all of them time, during the course of social movements, such as union struggles or other types of community organizing, to be a speaker or to be spokespersons representing some action, specifically because they know how to express progressive ideals and can be clearly understood during public gatherings.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)the house and left it vacant, now he's upset someone else has it?
According to the Occupy reports at the time they took over the house, some of the neighbors reported the house had been used by "drug dealers" and those dumping their trash on the property. Some neighbors were happy to have a family there and the Occupiers were working to make the house habitable as it had apparently fallen into disrepair after being left vacant for 3 years.
I also find it weird that I can only find reports with this particular slant; most of which refer back to the nypost article; on obviously right wing sites.
Here are some snippets from which I garnered the above using non-nypost and non-r/w sites:
The initiative comes after organizers temporarily halted renovations at the 702 Vermont St. residence when police threatened to evict volunteers for working there without a permit during the first week of occupation. Many organizers say the police don't have a legal basis for entering the home, and to date, there's no eviction notice posted for the residence.
<snip>
Berger said a stream of squatters had used the residence as a drug house since the home went into foreclosure three years ago, causing dismay among the block's homeowners.
"This house had been a problem in the past," Berger said. "There's huge excitement that there's going to be a family in the home."
<snip> from [link:blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/12/two_weeks_later.php|this link]
Neighbors say that since Countrywide Financial foreclosed on the house three years ago, people have come to both loot the house and to dump waste in its yard. Bank of America, which bought Countrywide in 2008, now holds the mortgage.
<snip>
These homes need to be filled with families that need them, thats all there is to it, Alfredo told MSNBC host Chris Hayes on his show last week. This is not just about my family, this is about improving the lives of all families that are directly affected.
Other residents of Vermont Street have expressed relief that a family will move in to the space they say brought instability to the neighborhood.
<snip> from [link:newspaper.occupybk.org/2011/12/16/updates-from-702-vermont-street/|this link]
The whole situation stinks. The spin also stinks.
It appears there is much more to this story than the nypost is reporting; approximately 3 years of back story being at least part of it.
edit for formatting
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Well of course it does. It's Rupert Murdoch, and has been posted by a person that attempts to bash, smear or invalidate OWS every chance they get.
When something gets spun to the point where it's clear you aren't getting the whole story, then it's time to question the source and anyone pushing that version of events.
hack89
(39,171 posts)why did they pick a political activist that works with OWS? They may have valid reasons but it smacks of political theater.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)smacks of political theater because it doesn't tell the whole story, and is of course, from the NY Post which is going to make sane people question its credibility in the first place. I certainly don't take anything from Fox News at face value, given their history of lies and distortions of the truth.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)can't be a "real" homeless person, is kinda weird to me, hack89. I've worked with advocates-for-the-homeless who were, in fact, homeless at the time of their activism.
Next, you'd have to ask the OWS people; 1) did they know the owner, 2) did they talk to the owner, 3) if they knew him and talked to him, why did they make the choice they made?
I wasn't there. I don't know. I'm not even sure from reading what I've read what the complete story is.
Let's start with; did the owner in fact leave the house vacant for 3 years?
edited for more specific language
hack89
(39,171 posts)I am sure it was a hard choice to make.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)one of many. It also begs the question, why is he now trying to move back into his home? What has changed?
There are a whole lot of pieces missing from this puzzle.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I am not sure that if OWS hadn't occupied this house he would have been attempting to move back in. But if OWS is going to fight for someone, why can't it be him? Why pick someone else instead of the family that was forced to abandon the house in the first place.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)many of your questions. If I spew enough of them I might actually hit the target...or not. LOL
It'd be great if there were actually someone asking those questions and reporting the answers; preferably in a reliable news venue. I'm afraid we won't see those questions or their answers in a publication such as the nypost.
Maybe as time goes by more answers will come to light. Right now, it just looks like a smear job against the Occupy Movement; or at the very least, a convenient event to exploit.
Here's hoping we'll get more answers from reliable sources.
(let's see if I can make this one post without a freaking edit)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)His claim to the house is long time-barred.
The house was foreclosed years ago and is bank-owned.
There is nothing to "fight" for on his behalf here. Title has long passed, and his loan has been written off.
And you should know enough about the law to have sussed this out by now.
This guy didn't rise from the graveyard of legal claims on his own, he was exhumed. That should be apparent to you as well, given that his story seems to be something of an "exclusive". How did the Post get the scoop on this? Do you at all ask yourself that sort of question when reading the news?
hack89
(39,171 posts)He has never given up. His stuff was in the house. The police seem to think he is the legal owner. The Bank says he is the legal owner.
Response to hack89 (Reply #135)
jberryhill This message was self-deleted by its author.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"desperately trying to renegotiate his mortgage"
Bullshit. Foreclosure was completed on this property years ago. There is nothing to "renegotiate". The bank has title.
He gave up on this and moved on years ago.
Where has he been living all this time?
hack89
(39,171 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Non-authoritative source, hack.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/detail?Doc_ID=2008102700199001
On edit: The most likely explanation here is that Bank of America stated it did not own the property, which is correct. The interpretation applied to that by your source is incorrect.
Broderick
(4,578 posts)if there is a mortgage? Not sure how that works to be honest. Just wondering.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If banks held title to mortgaged properties, then they wouldn't need foreclosure proceedings in order to obtain title.
Broderick
(4,578 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)my mortgage has been sold three time since I have been in the house.
"ASSIGNMENT, MORTGAGE" is the tip off.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)was sold and/or transferred to another servicer?
hack89
(39,171 posts)The second document simply shows who owns or services the mortgage.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)This man appears to be a penny stock pump and dump clown. Hardly the type who would ally himself with Occupy Wall Street.
hack89
(39,171 posts)a little political theater perhaps?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)you don't have any evidence to verify this claim, either, outside of the Murdoch rag you've already linked to, and if you respond to this post it will be with more baseless attacks on OWS.
hack89
(39,171 posts)i_sometimes
(201 posts)is dated the 8th of December, also says home was vacant for three years.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-12-08/news/30492605_1_protesters-homeless-activist-multifamily-house
And a little more about this operation at LATimes dated 21st December
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/21/nation/la-na-squatters-20111222
And this about Ahadzi, day trader?
http://www.investorschatroom.com/about-us.php
Seems legit.
otohara
(24,135 posts)they lie, a lot, everyday -
pnorman
(8,155 posts)I'm saving this thread for later intensive Googling.
nadinbrzezinski
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pnorman
(8,155 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)read the bottom, for the rest of the story go here...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/15/single-dad-trying-to-take-back-home-from-occupy-wall-street-protesters/
It is going back to a murdoch pub
Also read Cerridwen's post bellow this
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)The guy who claims to be the owner, no longer has his name on the property. It looks as though it's bank owned.
I'm not sure how the info will show via link, so here is the link for the lookup. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml
The first doc image is in Wise Ahadzi's name a mortgage in the amount of $84,900 http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/detail?Doc_ID=2007012501041003
The most recent doc image is in the name of MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC.
3601 HEMPSTEAD TURNPIKE LEVITTOWN NY 11756 US and ALLIANCE MORTGAGE BANKING, CORP.
3601 HEMPSTEAD TURNPIKE LEVITTOWN NY 11756 US with 2nd Party listed as
PARTY 2
COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS, INC. 7105 CORPORATE DRIVE PLANO TX 75024 US
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/detail?Doc_ID=2008102700199001
If the links don't work, the info for the search is
Borough: BROOKLYN / KINGS
Block: 04300
Lot: 0115
And click document detail when you get the search results.
This looks suspiciously as though the owner the nypost is quoting, is no longer the owner but that the bank is.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I will need to learn that handy trick
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)I used it to make sure any rentals we looked at weren't in foreclosure. I also used it to track the proceedings against my mother's house; "she'd taken" a reverse mortgage.
Most local governments, in my case it was the county, have property records available for inspection, many online. Generally, start at the county (or parish or whatever that gov't division is in your state) website and begin searching and clicking. The ones I've used are available for free; but some do charge.
Oh, and to check on business entities, you're usually looking to search the Secretary of State website of the particular state; Texas charges for most of their searches, other states make part or all of the record available for free.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)for some fancy investigative reporting.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Bust some chops and keep 'em honest, nadin.
Though, I do want to note, it's not very fancy and is, so far as I'm concerned, very prosaic; and very old-school.
pro·sa·ic/prōˈzāik/
Adjective:
1. Having the style or diction of prose; lacking poetic beauty.
2. Commonplace; unromantic.
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)Wow.
I almost spewed wine all over my keyboard. In my neck of the woods that's called alcohol abuse so I managed to avoid it. But I did LOL when I read your reply.
It reminded me of the editorial cartoon with the spine standing in the corner. "What is it?" Only in this case, it was plain, old-fashioned facts. And not very difficult to find, either. *sigh*
And honestly, who wouldn't be skeptical of anything from Rupert Murdoch in the first place? Plain old-fashioned facts showed the entire article to be a bunch of spin, distortions and lies. In other words, the norm from anything owned by News Corp.
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)I'll be appearing here all evening.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)their server.
'Tis only fair, yaknow.
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)I haz five bucks!
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)DO NOT search google images for 'five bucks.' Just, ick.
Blech!
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)I just did . . . aside from Sharon Stone in a bikini, there's no "lemon party" grossness going on?
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Mayhaps google serves images based on past google history. Wow! That says something about me and it's ain't good!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)mortgage are bought and sold all the time. Lets see a title.
hack89
(39,171 posts)that confirms his story?
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)At least, I don't have time to keep up which still trying to research facts.
Oh well. Such is life in the big city.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and went off spinning a story based on the small second mortgage.
hack89
(39,171 posts)my mortgage has been sold three times in 10 years.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)mortgage at any time it was purchased?
If it was, you'd better do some quick phone calling. You should be listed as either party #1 or party #2 when the holder of the note changes otherwise you might discover you do not, in fact, have any rights to your home. (Perhaps party #3 if there are enough mortgage holders involved).
If you look at the history of the records on the property being discussed in this thread, you will note that Mr. Ahadzi's name has been removed from the note assignment process.
If you have substantial proof that I've mis-read the documents, please provide it. Right now all I see is an assertion with no viable information provided.
hack89
(39,171 posts)mortgages are bought and sold all the time. Lets see a title.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)me twice, but please see my reply to your first reply...my post #155. Thanks.
hack89
(39,171 posts)one documents the actual mortgage. The second document the transfer of servicing rights and ownership of the mortgage.
Look at your links: one says "DOC. TYPE: MORTGAGE" the other says "DOC. TYPE: ASSIGNMENT, MORTGAGE"
Also, look at the dates: this transfer took place in 2008 - he was foreclosed in 2009.
And finally - banks don't buy foreclosed mortgages - they are worthless. They get titles to foreclosed property.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)at auction.
I'm not an expert so I'm going to holler out in the forum for an expert to come check the history of this property.
If I'm reading the history correctly, again, I'm no expert, the property was purchased for 425,500. The next document shows a mortgage for 339,600; perhaps a refi? The next transaction shows a mortgage for 84,900; sold at auction? The final transaction shows a reassignment of the mortgage to a 'new' mortgage servicer.
A little snippet on the general foreclosure process:
At auction, an opening bid on the property is set by the foreclosing lender. This opening bid is usually equal to the outstanding loan balance, interest accrued, and any additional fees and attorney fees associated with the Trustee Sale. If there are no bids higher than the opening bid, the property will be purchased by the attorney conducting the sale, for the lender.
The part I highlighted was to address the idea that the bank, i.e., the lender, doesn't buy mortgages. Here's the link for the above and please note the process is in generalized form as the foreclosure process is specific to each state in which it occurs. http://www.biggerpockets.com/foreclosure-process.html Oh yeah, I don't know much about the site but the process it describes is almost identical to what we went through with the 'foreclosure' on my mother's home after her death.
hack89
(39,171 posts)2008 does come before 2009.
Mortgage companies sell mortgages all the time - many don't actually service mortgages, just sell them.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)or the bank bought the mortgage?
Is it strenuous to keep moving those goal posts?
hack89
(39,171 posts)which in turn makes them responsible for foreclosures if needed.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Here's but one article about that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/business/us-settlement-reported-on-countrywide-lending.html
If you'll click this link: http://www.countrywidebank.com/ you'll have additional proof.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Do you have proof of that?
I now see what you're doing. Multiple one-liners with no supporting evidence makes it much easier for you to get out your message while those of us who are trying to nail down factual information are at a disadvantage since it takes time to research.
I've tried to deal with you in good faith. You've returned my efforts with spin, and 'gotcha' one-liners.
I have some studying to go do; interestingly enough about real estate and lands.
Consider yourself the victor. You win. I've no time to continue this farce. Though, maybe I'll throw out a couple of one-liners on my way to study.
hack89
(39,171 posts)
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/662005_Mortgage_Servicing.asp
Looks like BoA is responsible.
Cerridwen
(13,252 posts)Yes, I believe that was the point.
hack89
(39,171 posts)you documented that BoA services his mortgage.
The only official record does not show BoA as holding the deed to the property:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2007012501041001
hack89
(39,171 posts)there are no further records regarding this mortgage.
He most likely did an 80/20 no money down mortgage.
Here is the record showing the deed transfer to Ahadzi.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2007012501041001
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)But the transaction involves MERS, which always seems to muddy things up.
T S Justly
(884 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The story characterizes the previous owner as being somehow "fighting" to get his home back, as if he is engaged in some sort of ongoing struggle.
That's obviously not true.
The house was foreclosed on years ago, ownership taken by the bank, and unoccupied since prior to the foreclosure.
In other words, that prior owner had moved on and not been fighting or attempting to renegotiate ANYTHING with ANYONE.
But now, after years of having since moved on, and no longer owning any title or other claim to the house, this guy is dug up and portrayed as if he has been fighting a struggle to keep the place.
THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE.
So, I'd like you to exercise some critical thinking skills of the sort you should whenever you see a news story and ask the initial question - "How did this story come to be?"
Hack89, in your best estimation, why do you think this guy popped out of the woods after having given up on this claim more than four years ago?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I suspect you will get a bunch of accusations if you get anything, because the credibility of the article has been blown to hell. I doubt you will get anything though, but expect a new article to crop up later that bashes, smears or attempts to discredit the OWS movement. There are some who are desperate to shut it down by any means necessary.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I believe hack89 is an insightful critical thinker, and he has demonstrated that time and time again.
I don't believe that anything or anyone is above criticism, including OWS. This is a discussion board and that's what should go on - discussion.
It does seem to me that he's not asking himself some critical questions about this story.
If "exposing" OWS as having engaged in political theater is the point then, well yes, certainly, OWS is engaging in political theater. That's not really a damning indictment of OWS, though, if you think about it.
Yes, stunts get attention, and simply getting attention is one of the hurdles that any set of ideas faces in what has become our all too literal the "marketplace of ideas".
There is no sin in that.
However, hack89 does not ask the first question here - how did this story come to be?
Given the clear bullshit impression that this guy has been waging a struggle he lost and abandoned years ago (and I mean abandoned in all of its equitable, common law and statutory glory), how this guy comes to be portrayed this way is a question worth asking.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I question the motivation for the continuous assault against OWS, though. After a point, it becomes valid to question the motives of someone that will post any old thing to discredit a movement.
Once people get to the point where they are posting articles from questionable sources, it's time to point out that maybe they need to examine why they feel so strongly that they will accept any argument that supports their bias whether credible or plausible.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and point taken. I don't believe anyone or any organization is above criticism, including yours truly .
I do tend to get incensed over clear hit pieces, though. Our media in this country sucks and has sucked since the moment Rupert Murdock was allowed to operate here.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)I have to disagree with you assessment of the definition of critical thinking (CT) then. From Wiki;
"Critical thinking is the process of thinking that questions assumptions. It is a way of deciding whether a claim is true, false; sometimes true, or partly true. The origins of critical thinking can be traced in Western thought to the Socratic method of Ancient Greece and in the East, to the Buddhist kalama sutta and Abhidharma. Critical thinking is an important component of most professions. It is a part of the education process and is increasingly significant as students progress through university to graduate education, although there is debate among educators about its precise meaning and scope."
You may know of posts where Hack89 does engage in this process according to the above definition. However, I have reread the posts he/she made here and I find them lacking in CT.
Here is one of his posts;
62. "So you are categorically saying the story is false?
ok - I understand your reluctance to dig too deep."
Here he is commenting on a post by nadinbrzezinski (59) where she is saying not to take Murdock's take on the news too seriously. Hack89's response is to attack the messenger and question their analytical skills. Another post;
60. "So should OWS actively oppose the reelection of President Obama?
are those of us that support Democrats and their campaigns the enemy of OWS?"
This again is in response to Zhade (58) where the poster comments on the reasons why OWS is not party specific and lays out reasons what OWS is about. hack89's response is to change the subject and begin the attack anew against OWS with charges that OWS is now heading the charge against reelecting the president. And yet another post;
20. "I am willing to wait until you have some actual facts. Take all the time you need. nt"
This is in response to Spazito (17). hack89 is trying to get his detractors to do the fact checking even though several posts have already done this and given links. There have been no media mention to this case EXCEPT for Murdock owned media and the usual Conservative lapdog boards-freepers, etc... obamanut2012 replies downstream,
106. "You cannot prove a negative.
The onus is on the "accuser," which is you, to provide a source that isn't Murdoch. I can't find it anywhere else."
There are many more posts by hack89 to this OP that fit MY CT analysis why I believe your assessment of the poster is a fail.
You post later in the thread;
97. "My enemies I fight. My friends I criticize."
If this critique of mine makes me your enemy then so be it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)How about you cool those jets which suggest that you are making either "friends" or "enemies" by discussing a topic with strangers on the internet?
Quite obviously, my point is that hack has failed to apply basic critical thinking to this story. Quoting from this thread has nothing to do with my opinion of his postings on other subjects over a number of years.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)This does beg the question though. A lot of people foreclosed upon didn't deserve it. A lot of unoccupied residencies are out there. Perhaps in the future a goal should be to find the last occupants, those who were foreclosed upon, and tell them you'll support their reoccupation of the premises, as opposed to creating your own narrative.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Bucky
(53,986 posts)Ad-infinitum...
Wind Dancer
(3,618 posts)...from the OPer since they're quoting an article from a well known right-wing rag.
I don't believe this story. Why were you so willing to believe it and then start a thread without more research? This is a hit piece on OWS, pure and simple. Don't know why it's being posted on DU.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)most like is skewed to reflect the propaganda they wish you do believe. If you google the reporter who wrote the story, Candice M. Giove, she is the author of many hit pieces on the Occupy movement. She seems to come out of the Ann Coulter school of journalism and that is to spread any diatribe she can think of to discredit that which she is opposed to. No truth or real research is needed here. There is no unbiased reporting coming out of her.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)really quite beyond the pale.
Welcome to my DU3 Ignore list.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Otherwise you're just spreading RW propaganda.
ClassWarrior
(26,316 posts)I've heard that the NYPost is pretty fucked up.
NGU.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Gold Metal Flake
(13,805 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Always so anxious to say "I support Occupy but...", and always the first to hop on the smear train.
So fucking transparent.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)Not willing to even look at anything a Du'er posts about "the rest of the story" but willing to blindly accept Fox News or the NY Post.
This place is getting bad. It's getting to the point where IMHO it's more harmful to Democrats than helpful.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I agree that OWS shouldn't be breaking into and knocking around a house that still belongs to a person. That person is legally liable for the damage. So I don't think there is any excuse for what OWS did here. Why the guy didn't call the police I don't know.
BUT the article also seems to imply that OWS moved in a family they had picked and didn't want to help the man who owned the house, but who loses a job as a day trader? If you are a day trader you work for yourself. I guess he failed at it. So I doubt there is anything OWS could do to help the legal owner/speculator.
hack89
(39,171 posts)why isn't the "homeless family" living in the house?
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)it has been kind of quiet. I have been repeatedly told it will pick up in the spring.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)All over the globe, and right here in the US OWS has been extremely active and building this movement. They have been exposing a corrupt system more effectively than any other single entity in living memory for many people.
From Oakland to Brooklyn where over one thousand churches have joined them in occupying homes and helping homeowners to stay in their home, including respected Civil Rights era Pastors.
Chicago, NYC, Albany, SD, SF who are in the process of starting their own banks, a model that hopefully will spread around the country, town after town across the country has been extremely busy and active in thousands of ways, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from.
Maybe don't rely on Murdoch's rags where all you get is propaganda. The Murdoch Empire of lies is crumbling and not a minute too soon.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I guess they have given up on mobilizing the masses.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)mobilization? As I said, stop reading Murdoch's rags, already exposed over the past few months for their lies about OWS, which is why I was so shocked to see that rag given any space here, and if you really want to know what OWS is up to, find more credible sources.
They have been hugely successful over the winter months on a number of extremely important issues including growth of the movement, and have in fact totally changed the political dialogue, aside from all the other issues being dealt with and ongoing.
This movement is only at the 'beginning of the beginning'. It is going to take years to fix the problems this country has and the early successes of a movement not yet four months old, are simply stunning, way beyond anything anyone had expected.
It has been a great four months so far and all the actions planned for the next few months will certainly be even successful in keeping the focus on the real changes that must happen in this country before it' too late.
Murdoch's Empire are on their way into the dustbin of history and he and his propagandists may end up in jail where they belong. The Post is one of the worst of his tabloids, and why anyone would give any credibility to anything emanating from that source is beyond me.
Not to mention, it grows each and every day and will continue to grow until it is no longer necessary which will be several years from now at least.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)hence all the emotional responses I guess.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Fox New and the New York Post would never be anything less than objective when reporting on OWS?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)published by a sleazy right wing paper with a reputation for lies and distortion.
hack89
(39,171 posts)should be easy to find some facts to support OWS.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)There were no facts in piece from Murdoch's paper, just hearsay from disreputable sources printed by an even more disreputable organization.
hack89
(39,171 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)Ahadzi wants OWS to fight for him, but he has not demonstrated that he has a claim worth fighting for. The title may be in his name, but he abandoned the property long ago. There is good reason to believe that the foreclosure proceedings will continue to be uneventful. Ahadzi stopped paying his mortgage in any amount years ago. He made no effort to stay in the home and renegotiate the mortgage. He did not participate in the modification program.
This was likely a flip that went bad since Ahadzi bought at the absolute peak of the market. He and his children seem happy renting across town. Why would he even try to get back into this mortgage? My guess is that he got paid for the story.
hack89
(39,171 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)It seems like that's what you really want to do anyhow.
hack89
(39,171 posts)chrisa
(4,524 posts)OWS - Hosting "Fuck the Police" rallies. Screaming / acting like spoiled children
The owner of this house - it's been owned by the bank for years, and he just suddenly decides to throw a fit about it now?
hack89
(39,171 posts)According to the bank he is still the legal owner - the foreclosure has not been finalized.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Together with Fox News and the entire Rightwing Noise Machine.
Nice try, maybe go find some credible sources and get back to us.
The Reichwing we know, has been attempting, unsuccessfully btw, to discredit the American people who are trying to change a system that created monsters like Murdoch.
No surprise there, but to see this trash on a Democratic board is pretty sad.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)You give the surface impression that this guy was occupying the home and OWS shoved him out in favor of another family when he was apparently doing nothing not paying, not living there, not in any proceedings, nothing.
What would he like them to do? It doesn't appear at all to be the occupation of the home. What is it they are to be doing on his behalf, exactly? Absent some other mission, what they are doing works for me. Homeless folks need a roof, and homes are sitting under control of the banks. Fine by me.
By the way, I don't take the story at face value. First off the guy hasn't been in the place in years which means it starts off at questionable and goes from there.
hack89
(39,171 posts)if he is the legal owner of the house, then OWS should work to help him. Why can't he move back in instead of a political activist with ties to OWS? They are acting just like the banks they decry - "sorry - can't help you. Just accept your fate." Looks like they agree with and accept the status quo concerning the mortgage crisis. They are either a game changing movement or they are not. Looks like the latter to me.
And handpicking a political activist with ties to OWS pisses me off too - looks like they are more interested in a compliant "homeless family" that won't rock the OWS boat.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)It still seems you want them to morph into a refi/credit councilling outfit but won't admit it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They could move him back into his house for starters - instead of picking a OWS connected activist.
Perhaps I am asking to much of OWS. I thought they were a game changing organization - this particular group appears to just be a bunch of squatters.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)pretty shitty thing to do. Looks like OWS is good for political theater and nothing else.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I personally know one of the organizers of this action from college. I was never impressed with his contribution to the conferences I was in him with, and am not surprised they didn't do their homework before taking this action. He never expressed much of an opinion in favor of either Hegel or Marx, in fact, he barely spoke a word and often seemed unprepared for conference. That he has suddenly *now* decided to express his political feelings makes me wonder where he was when I was defending Marx twice a week for a semester.