General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlease stop w/the Trump running in 2024 "stuff" because he can't. 14th Amendment Section 3
Trump saying he will run again is just a vehicle for him to grift from his rubes and or hoping to forestall
his upcoming criminal trials and prosecution. The DoJ, the Congress (they can refer things to the DoJ),
Fani Willis in Georgia, and the IRS all have the receipts on Trump and company's crimes. I really doubt
that shits like Mark Meadows, Flynn, Rudy, Stone, and so on will take the fall for Trump
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or
elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil
or military, under the United States, or under any State, who,
having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or
as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an
executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the
United States, shall have engaged
in insurrection or rebellion against the same . . .
snip
Section Three is once again relevant due to the extraordinary events at the Capitol and the widespread condemnation of the attack as an insurrection by Republicans and Democrats in Congress. This characterization, reinforced by the article of impeachment adopted by the House of Representatives that expressly invoked Section Three, strongly suggests that anyone who shall have engaged in that insurrection after having sworn an oath to protect the Constitution is now ineligible to serve.
https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/enforcing-the-14th-amendments-bar-on-insurrectionist-officers-and-candidates/
Lovie777
(12,237 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(16,784 posts)It was telling how Republicans need several more state houses to take over for a Constitutional Convention to take place. But he also stated that it could take years to redraft the Constitution due to the complexities as to who would have rights, and who would not. Repealing the 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th, and 19th Amendments will not be easy. Nor rewriting the Bill of Rights will be a cakewalk.
Mad_Machine76
(24,407 posts)38 states would have to ratify for any proposed changes to become law. We need to keep our eyes on this but unless some blue states get completely taken over by radical right-wing Republicans, it will be hard for them to reach the designated number of states to even call for a convention, much less ratify any changes to the Constitution.
msfiddlestix
(7,278 posts)when such things could be relied upon as a respected and important component to our democratic form of government which will no longer exist once that is violated.
Scrivener7
(50,949 posts)jimfields33
(15,785 posts)I dont think he will win in 2024.
msfiddlestix
(7,278 posts)those who say, 'he's not running', based on the Constituion or based on the fact that he hasn't filed, is to me, irrelavant because all norms, legally speaking, ethically speaking, practically speaking, etc no longer have any bearing on reality.
No longer can we assume safeguards against misignant forces remain in place as a defender of our democracy.
We can only hope our one and only existing avenue of defense, the power of the ballot, remains in place despite all efforts to invalidate it's legitimacy.
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,784 posts)So he can indeed still be indicted for crimes when he was POTUS.
FBaggins
(26,729 posts)Unless he is actually convicted on the crime of insurrection or the senate votes by 2/3... the only way to beat him is at the polls (either primary or general).
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Botany
(70,498 posts)https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/top-national-security-prosecutor-joins-trump-mar-a-lago-investigation/ar-AA13uqDd
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/trump-criminal-referral-sent-to-prosecutors-and-irs-by-letitia-james.html
America has had 3 people who were found guilty of espionage @ the level which Trump might have very well
been at and they were the Rosenbergs (executed) and FBI Agent Robert Hansen (15 life sentences Colorado Super Max)
Although, I think I have the same fears that you do and that is what would happen if the republicans took back
power? I think so many republicans were involved in the attempted J-6 coup and had knowledge of the Trump
Russia connection they will fight like hell to keep things "all covered up."
FBaggins
FBaggins
(26,729 posts)If your county passes a law that says that you can't be a police officer if you exceed the speed limit - it wouldn't matter even if you were caught on camera doing it and everyone in town believed it. Unless you're convicted in court of speeding, the penalty can't be applied.
It sure looks to us as though they have "the receipts," - but unless they charge and convict him, it doesn't matter (as far as 14A goes). And the conviction must be for insurrection. Incitement to riot won't do it... and certainly not fraud by a company that he owns.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,328 posts)J_William_Ryan
(1,753 posts)the problem would be enforcing a Section Three action.
GoCubsGo
(32,080 posts)If he runs, he loses his "Save America" PAC (a.k.a., SAP--as in you're a sap if you contribute to it) cash cow. And, the RNC will cease to pay his legal bills, which are likely through the roof at this point. They're almost certainly going to get worse.
Chainfire
(17,531 posts)It doesn't go to a jury without an indictment. Where is the indictment?
ColinC
(8,291 posts)Maybe suggesting to him that they will not charge him with insurrection if he does not run🤷♂️
Chainfire
(17,531 posts)If you don't rob the bank again we will not charge you for robbing the bank this time.
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)Insurrection isnt a we know it when we see it definition. He hasnt been indicted much less convicted of anything. Nothing will prevent him from running g if he wants to.
Botany
(70,498 posts)n/t
Scrivener7
(50,949 posts)brooklynite
(94,503 posts)And if youre going to tell me he sold documents, thats also not insurrection and hasnt. Den proven. We dont block candidates based on we know he did assertions.
Botany
(70,498 posts)espionage. He had documents about foreign intelligence assets both American and foreign and
HIGHLY CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS ABOUT OUR SPY SATELLITES. I have a family member who
worked in that program and to this day she/he can not say one word about it. Why he is still
walking free is beyond me. Even though Putin invaded Ukraine for a 2nd time after TFG was no
longer in office we have had remote sensing satellites in geosynchronous orbit over Ukraine and
that part of the world for years and I have no doubt that some of the stolen documents had
information on that program and since Trump is an active Russian asset he gave up that info
to Putin.
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)"I have no doubt" is not an argument to make in Court.
FBaggins
(26,729 posts)Any judge who would allow a "did you vote for Trump?" question to disqualify a juror would have to allow a "did you vote against Trump" question to do the same.
sarisataka
(18,608 posts)When people post a link that undercuts their claim.
It clearly says enforcement would be up to the courts and suggests Congress adopt a resolution that he is ineligible (something they have not done). However the author notes-
Autumn
(45,057 posts)That's a joke because they respect nothing.
newdayneeded
(1,955 posts)So far all I've seen is the J6 committee document his wrong doings and a visit to his property to take back some documents, and then leave with a cordial good bye.