General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis Couple Died by Suicide After the DEA Shut Down Their Pain Doctor
It was a Tuesday in early November when federal agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration paid a visit to the office of Dr. David Bockoff, a chronic pain specialist in Beverly Hills. It wasnt a Hollywood-style raidthere were no shots fired or flash-bang grenades deployedbut the agents left behind a slip of paper that, according to those close to the doctors patients, had consequences just as deadly as any shootout.
On Nov. 1, the DEA suspended Bockoffs ability to prescribe controlled substances, including powerful opioids such as fentanyl. While illicit fentanyl smuggled across the border by Mexican cartels has fueled a record surge in overdoses in recent years, doctors still use the pharmaceutical version during surgeries and for soothing the most severe types of pain. But amid efforts to shut down so-called pill mills and other illegal operations, advocates for pain patients say the DEA has gone too far, overcorrecting to the point that people with legitimate needs are blocked from obtaining the medication they need to live without suffering.
One of Bockoffs patients who relied on fentanyl was Danny Elliott, a 61-year-old native of Warner Robins, Georgia. In March 1991, Elliott was nearly electrocuted to death when a water pump he was using to drain a flooded basement malfunctioned, sending high-voltage shocks through his body for nearly 15 minutes until his father intervened to save his life. Elliott was never the same after the accident, which left him with debilitating, migraine-like headaches. Once a class president and basketball star in high school, he found himself spending days on end in a darkened bedroom, unable to bear sunlight or the sound of the outdoors.
I have these sensations like my brain is loose inside my skull, Elliott told me in 2019, when I first interviewed him for the VICE News podcast series Painkiller. If I turn my head too quickly, left or right, it feels like my brain sloshes around. Literally my eyes burn deep into my skull. My eyes hurt so bad that it hurts to blink.
After years of trying alternative pain treatments such as acupuncture, along with other types of opioids, around 2002 Elliott found a doctor who prescribed fentanyl, which gave him some relief. But keeping a doctor proved nearly impossible amid the ongoing federal crackdown on opioids. Bockoff, Elliott said, was his third doctor to be shut down by the DEA since 2018. As Elliott described it, each transition meant weeks or months of desperate scrambling to find a replacement, plus excruciating withdrawals due to his physical dependence on opioids, followed by the return of that burning eyeball pit of despair.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxnyb9/dea-fentanyl-doctor-patient-suicide
I have worked with chronic pain patients and I believe the DEA is overreaching. There's a difference between them and the doctor-shopping addicts. I know, my ex DIL was one of the latter.
marble falls
(57,013 posts)... pharmacies filling prescriptions in the hundreds of thousands of pills in counties with populations under 10,000. Screw the DEA.
ProfessorGAC
(64,854 posts)There was one pharmacy that doled out over 3 million pills in 33 months in a WV County that had only 12,000 people.
Turns out that pharmacy was selling to other pharmacies, some across state lines.
And, nobody at the DEA noticed? But, they noticed this doctor?
Seems awfully odd.
marble falls
(57,013 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,854 posts)I don't know how they miss one and find the other, but they do.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Further, palliative care should always focus on making the patient as comfortable as possible and focus on those aspects of their lives that support a pain-free existence, including readily available access to pain-reducing drugs.
No one should be forced to live with debilitating pain.
Farmer-Rick
(10,140 posts)In the end my spouse was looking forward to dying, just so the pain would stop. There were reasons why hospice could not help us.
But yeah, it was a constant struggle to find a pain clinic that would help.
But the worst pain you can experience bar none is shingles. More people commit suicide from shingles than any other disease. Get your chicken pox and shingles vaccine. It may save your life.
blugbox
(951 posts)I just wanted to add that shortly after recovering from what I believe was a very early case of Covid in 2020, my immune system must have been shot, because I came down with shingles...
On my freaking face/head!
That was the worst pain I've ever experienced. Like my brain was being dipped in acid. There were times when I was just stuck laying on the couch, grasping my skull and completely frozen solid in pain. That was with a perscription for pain meds too. The doctors said I was very lucky I wasn't blinded, because I had shingles spots in several places around my left eye. The really sucky part is that it did permanent nerve damage to my forehead/scalp area. The sensation of touch in that whole area is permanently screwed up, and I randomly get jolts of nerve pain that shoot across my scalp.
The reason I came into this thread is that I'm having a particularly painful time of things as I type. I had no idea about the suicide rate with shingles, but I can absolutely believe it.
happy feet
(864 posts)My mom had shingles horribly for almost a year...still feels nerve pain on occasion. Scared me into getting my shingles shot. I can't imagine having it on your face/head. So sorry to hear.
blugbox
(951 posts)The nerve pain really stinks, because it is totally random, and often goes away suddenly on its own. Makes managing it almost impossible.
BTW, I am currently 37, so I got it when I was 35. I never saw it coming, but totally would have taken the vaccine if I knew I was that at-risk.
LudwigPastorius
(9,110 posts)I'm on Cymbalta now, and its effectiveness is wearing off...just like all the other medications they have tried so far.
I (only half) jokingly tell my friends that the antidepressive I'm on doesn't really stop the pain, it just keeps me from killing myself.
So yes, any other folks reading this. Get that shingles vaccine! You don't want this.
Jilly_in_VA
(9,941 posts)It's a schedule drug, but not an opioid. It works pretty well, and also works as a migraine preventative. I notice the shingles pain starting to return if I miss more than one dose. My brother, who is an MD, takes an insane amount of gabapentin for chronic migraine.(I wouldn't be breaking confidence if I told you he was once addicted to opioids because of that--he freely admits it.)
Farmer-Rick
(10,140 posts)I understand the horrors of shingles. Seems you got the kind that damages you and keeps going.
Please hang in there. There are ways to manage that pain. Some anti depressants have been found to give relief. Yeah, weird that psychological prescriptions can help take away the pain. But they can cause other side affects too, so your doctor has to be involved obviously.
Catherine Vincent
(34,486 posts)I can't believe we have to suffer the pain from shingles with no helpful pain meds.
Catherine Vincent
(34,486 posts)I was out of work for a month and returned last week but had to leave early due to pain. The burning pain is still there but not as severe. I am glad it's not on my face. I have it on my back, my left breast, left arm and underarm and it is not pleasant. I can barely touch the areas affected. I had a lot of sleepless nights. Hydrocodone didn't help me. The only relief that helped was a heating pad and ice pack. I've always heard of shingles and now I understand. I pray once it's fully gone that it doesn't come back.
Lochloosa
(16,061 posts)In order to get a very low dosage of Hydrocodone, I had to go once a month to the doctors office to physically pickup a prescription.
No calling in the prescription. It had to have the doctors wet signature. I used to get a 90 day supply, now I could only get a 30 day supply.
Then, I had to find a pharmacist willing to fill the prescription. Walgreens stopped filling my script. The pharmacist said I had been on it too long and needed to try something else. He didn't have my med records showing me trying different procedures and non-narcotic pain relievers. He just said Walgreens would not fill it anymore.
Then Florida decided that you couldn't get a 30 day supply anymore. That's when I threw up my arms and said the hell with it and just live with the pain.
I was in no danger of becoming addicted at the dosages I was taking. My doctor and I had several discussions about this. That was the last thing I wanted to deal with.
The Feds and my fucked up State have gone way overboard with the crackdown on pain meds. Some people truly need them.
Maraya1969
(22,462 posts)a prescription in. Somehow he stopped doing that (I should ask).
I think 30 days is absurd but I think the DEA is absurd and I think FL legislators are absurd.
ProfessorGAC
(64,854 posts)But, that problem was solved by every doctor refusing to prescribe them. Including pain management doctors.
She was on the same stuff you describe. Low dose hydrocodone. And, 30 day supply, 2 per day that actually lasted her 6 weeks. So, clear evidence of no abuse.
Didn't matter.
flying_wahini
(6,578 posts)who left (still leave) post op or uncontrolled pain management to the regular General or Primary physicians to manage so they dont flag their numbers.
Most Drs shun pain management patients because they screw up their numbers at the DEA.
Even patients with understandable pain (like post op surgery) are having a hard time getting pain meds. This has been going on for decades and has actually contributed to more Rxs being prescribed. What a mess it is.
Blues Heron
(5,926 posts)these zealots are infringing on our rights
MarcA
(2,195 posts)Another failed War on Something. Could Medical MJ be a solution in some of these cases?
ratchiweenie
(7,754 posts)We lived in Oregon and went through hell getting him very low dose (5mg every eight to ten hours) oxycodone script each month and often he had to go several days after a prescription ran out to get another LEGAL prescription filled. We moved to Montana 3 years ago and he has not been able to get his medication. His hands are so bad he sometimes can't pick up a fork. His elbows ache all night long. He does not drink or smoke or use any other drugs.
Several physicians have told him that they agree that it's ridiculous that an old man in chronic pain can't get anything to ease that pain but their hands are tied by the DEA and the State of Montana. They have given him gabapentin which doesn't relive the pain and just makes him "stupid" and all the doctors (who of course have never had chronic pain) seem to think he should be okay with that and stop complaining. It really is a travesty to have to watch people suffer so much when the cure is so simple. My husband is not an addict and even if he was, he laughingly keeps telling the doctors, I am 76 years old, the pain is killing me. Who cares if I am addicted to a medication that causes no other problems in my life and makes my life bearable.
There is a reason there are lots of old oxy and heroin addicts but not many old serious alcoholics. Low dose Oxy does not destroy the liver or other organs. It does not rot the brain. It is a crime to be left to suffer because a lot of crooked fat cats got rich off addicting people. I am so sick of these Christian Conservatives and their lack of morals.
Farmer-Rick
(10,140 posts)I have found that taking a lot of carbs and all artificial sweeteners (the artificial sweeteners are really bad on my pain) out of my diet noticably reduced the pain in my hands. It took about 2weeks before I started feeling relief.
I am not a doctor and you should talk to your doctor about these things before you use them. If you have a heart condition or kidney issues you really need to check with a doctor first.
That said, some cannabis creams can help. I stock up when in LA. Look for the creams that have a lot of CBD oil in them. The straight CBD oils don't work for me at all. But those with some level of THC work. It doesn't make you high at all. And it takes awhile for you to feel relief, like a couple of hours.
Also Kraton, which is legal in some states but not in others can help. I don't use it but as a last resort because it puts me to sleep. But it does take away the pain for me.
I can't take aspirin for my arthritis, and my doctor said I was taking too much Tylenol and it was damaging my liver. So I'm always looking for stuff that is outside the medical establishment for it. Doctors don't seem to want to help me with my pain anyway.
ratchiweenie
(7,754 posts)his joints. In addition to an import business, we used to buy very old houses and restore them after people had done horrible modernizations on them. He doesn't do too bad on carbs but he is addicted to ice cream which does make it worse. He is mostly concerned with taking things that make him feel rummy or sleepy. He's sort of type A which is of course how he got this way in the first place.
We can't get the really good CBD oils here but my sister lives in Spokane and we need to go there and get the best. She's a health nut and used to work in a medical dispensary there.
So yes, good suggestions. I also have arthritis and tried the Kraton but I could not get it down. I can't take large capsules and it's just too foul mixed with juice or whatever. He too avoids lots of aspirin and Tylenol because he was once a drinker and is very careful of his liver. His liver however is in great shape since he hasn't had a drink in 30 years but he is still paranoid.
I will talk with my sister about what might work for him. He needs sleep at his age. We both do. LOL.
Warpy
(111,160 posts)as people who are denied the means to control it decide to end it permanently.
The DEA are a bunch of bored meathead cops who know nothing about medicine, and they need to butt the hell out of pain specialist offices. No, they're not dealing dope to vulnerable people, they're saving lives. While areas that are suddenly flooded with doses of opioids need to be looked at carefully, there needs to be some sort of medical review process to be able to tell the difference between a legitimate pain specialist and a Dr. Feelgood, a pharmacy and a pill mill.
This leaning on doctors who prescribe opioids has got to stop. It's killing people like the couple in the OP. Someday it will most likely kill me unless these assholes are reined in, preferably with a curb bit.
(Back in the late 60s, I knew of a Dr. Feelgood in Boston who used to write small scrips for drug addicts when a big drug bust would leave them crashing and sick. I went to him for other things because he was one of the kindest, most caring docs I ever met. The closest thing to a feel good scrip I ever got from him was some loaded cough syrup when I had ambulatory pneumonia)
not fooled
(5,801 posts)veterinarians will no longer prescribe effective pain meds (buprenorphine, an opiod) for my kitties after surgeries. Idiocy--the amounts are tiny--but the Drs. no longer want to deal with the DEA-required documentation.
James48
(4,427 posts)Oxycodone for years because of incredible pain- back and hip pain.
Doctor says there isnt any long term data on chronic pain relief by opioids.
Well, of course not. Nobody has done a long-term study, because everybody knows that it works for pain.
As a result, they keep trying to reduce it (Im down to 3x 5 mg a day), but it kills me if I run out at the end of the month.
ratchiweenie
(7,754 posts)he was out of luck period. Now he just suffers. He was on 5mg about three times a day too. It was just enough to make the pain go away and not interfere with the rest of his life. Something needs to be done. It's very cruel to make people suffer this way.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)not nearly enough. If only sufferers would organize politically and economically, instead of suffering alone.
In the nature of things, many pain sufferers will die before too many years pass; they need to leave a strong organization carrying on. And many, many others will experience dreadful, intractable pain as part of a final, debilitating illness. When it's too late to become active.
Political organization is needed to create enlightened laws that serve people with pain, better education of medical personnel, and to fund accelerated research. A national medical "moon shot" for pain.
It's not that not enough voters are affected, and this problem affects people of all ages and ideologies. According to the NIH, well over 100M Americans are in pain. At least a quarter of them, likely far more, have chronic pain. The suffering is enormous.
childfreebychoice
(476 posts)Fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. Got to ER at 7am, took them til 7pm to figure out how to put me to sleep, cuz of my many allergies. Got one dose of Dilaudid and had to add that to allergy list. Finally, ended up getting versed, and epidural, that stayed in my back for 7(seven days.) Was worthless, as only numbed pelvic area. Anesthesiologist had gall to say, "roll around a bit, maybe that will help the pain." Needless to say, my response can't be printed here. Had temporary external fixator applied, to stabilize bones. Had to go back next week to get 14 pins, and two plates.
Only med I can tolerate is muscle relaxer, soma. So I have not gone back to have pins/plates removed. Luckily I found doc willing to prescribe soma, which due to abuse, is now considered control substance. I hoard pills...cut them in half, potentiate with Benadryl, out of fear that one day, will not be able to get meds. Most of my friends, with chronic pain, due to fibromyalgia, are suffering cuz they can't get soma in their cities, states, disgusting
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and that giving national and state power to mean, backwards people in 2016 worsened an already terrible pain problem. And there you and your friends are, living the realities.
From what I've read, those elections tragically interrupted a long-delayed professional attention to pain that had finally developed and turned to government for crucial legislative assistance, as well as funding.
If the election of Democrats hadn't been derailed in 2016, they would have been working with problem solvers who believe government exists to serve the people. Instead, our governments were controlled by troglodytes who thought cutting off supplies, actual punishment as policy, and telling sufferers to "tough it out" (!!!) were .
We've all been living the consequences of that election, which are still playing out and threatening to swamp us, but some have had it a lot worse than others for sure. I'm so sorry. And this subject scares me. We're old now and it may be us before long. My husband's recently been diagnosed with cancer.
I can't get the article this quote below is from in the New Statesman to open; that the author was a first-person observer to his father's suffering would explain the emotion load (reminds me of Olbermann's anguish over his father's entrapment in a world of pain), and this thread made me want to read it:
The American politics of pain has three levels: the sadistic, the sadomasochistic and the sadopopulist, writes Timothy Snyder. Gravely ill in hospital with sepsis, Snyder had a revelation on how Donald Trump transformed the USs inequalities into a suicidal tribalism.
Have a nice evening.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,258 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)just imagine the effect of pain on workforce size and productivity alone. The Republican Party and their big donors should care about that even if depraved indifference is the most they can manage for the individuals themselves.
Blues Heron
(5,926 posts)Seems to me it should be a core right just as much as self defense against violence
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)The DEA has gone caveman on this. I think partly because they dropped the ball in the first place in being in front of this epidemic. Anyone who was in a treatment program or caring for someone, a family member maybe back in the 00s could see this was going to be a problem. Doctors used to give my grandmother 180 Vicodins a month (15mg tab) after she had a surgery. I remember calling the Doctor asking them to please not fill anymore because they were causing more issues then they solved.
To make up for that IMO the DEA has gone with a response that lacks any common sense when it comes to the pain management of patients.
Maraya1969
(22,462 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)Backseat Driver
(4,381 posts)A neighbor and friend suicided many years ago, in the 80s, suffering from chronic pain issues due to progressive spinal degeneration. The other two are still alive I am told, but I have either never met them face-to-face but read daily of their tribulations on this issue or have lost track of their personal situation.
Ms. Toad
(33,999 posts)In the past, in similar threads, there have as many defenders of the war on opiates as there were defenders of those in chronic pain. I don't see anyone in this thread sayings the restrictions are reasonable and necessary due to the opioid crises.
So it seems that it is relatively accepted, here, at least, that the extreme restrictions are a problem. That is a start on solving the problem - more agreement among those most likely interested in solving the problem that there is a problem to be solved.
Coventina
(27,063 posts)I'm shocked to see that there are so far no supporters of this insane war on sufferers.
RussBLib
(9,003 posts)How about some compassion?
How about removing cannabis FROM FUCKING SCHEDULE 1?!?!