In general -in terms of now, do you think the military industrial complex is a good or bad thing?

[ColinC]

Please take this question in the context of current global affairs.

Wikipedia article on the MIC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex

11 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	It is a good thing.
	0 (0%)
	It is a bad thing.
	8 (73%)
	It is neither.
	0 (0%)
	Something else (please share below).
	3 (27%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[ProfessorGAC]

1. It Has Value

But, not at the price we're paying.
It has intertwined itself into the overall economy to a degree where they're too big to fail.
That's never a good thing.

[ColinC]

2. I agree we are paying too much for it

But I still think we are likely better off right now for it, than not.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. My Issue Is, How Do We Know?

Since it's all treated as a sunk cost, we don't know the point at which security flattens and the added dollars are just excess.
We built an aircraft carrier the Navy said they didn't need.
Then, we have the F-35.

The F-35’s price per unit, including ancillary costs like depot maintenance, ground support equipment, and spare parts is $110.3 million per F-35A, $135.8 million per F-35B, and $117.3 million per F-35C. Those totals do not include the nearly $1.3 trillion in life cycle costs to operate and sustain the aircraft over its 66-year life cycle, making it the most expensive weapons system in U.S. history.

How much safer are we because of that? Would we have been just as safe with 2/3rds of those fighters? Half? Who knows?

[ColinC]

7. But then my question is -if we are safer with a set amount

Substantially lower than what we have, would that be successful without the MIC in place? How much value does the MIC have in making us safe?

I assume a lot. But maybe not?

[ProfessorGAC]

9. And, There Is The Dilemma

We're both guessing, and that means neither of us actually know.
I'm uncomfortable with that fact.

[ColinC]

13. Same

I’ve only recently come to terms, honestly, with the idea that the military is a necessary evil only because other militaries are controlled by more nefarious powers. This leads us to Eisenhower’s warning and how we heed it.

I guess?

[WarGamer]

22. +1000 absolutely.

The F22/35 program was a waste of money.

100% waste.

New F-16 variants are already the best fighters in the world.

The whole concept of a 5th generation fighter is idiotic... for one, it's debatable if the Chinese or Russian versions even qualify as gen 5 and even more... gen 5 fighters are already obsolete.

We SHOULD have stuck with modern F-16's and invested in the next gen planes which are pilot-less.

The next fighter will be unmanned because the human is the weak link.

It's ALL because the MIC wants the contracts and in a few years will demand money for next gen planes...

[ProfessorGAC]

26. What You Said

Agree completely.

[Turbineguy]

3. I think McDonalds should send all their customers to the Pentagon

for a few weeks. Then they come out and gladly pay $500 for a Big Mac.

[ColinC]

4. ...

Truth.

[brush]

6. It's needed but come on, we over do it.

We're lucky with our coasts on the two biggest oceans to protect us from invasion, not to mention peaceful nations north and south of us.

We do need some protection whoever as there are criminals like Putin and Kim Jong-un in the world with ballistic missiles that can reach us.

[Doc_Technical]

8. The military industrial complex

was created out of necessity following the
US direct involvement with WW II.
The Cold War and Korea and Vietnam and other
incidents keep it going.
This Complex also put a man on the moon.

[Dysfunctional]

12. The U.S. does not need to be fighting all the wars it has fought such as Vietnam

and Afghanistan. The money used to fight these wars could be better spent.

[ColinC]

15. It's hard to say how much those wars are needed to

Keep the MIC healthy as periodic demonstrations of their products could be required to satisfy the funders.

[Dysfunctional]

16. So, U.S. military personnel need to die to help the MIC.

[ColinC]

17. Possibly

As well as innocent civilians in other countries.

[Sneederbunk]

10. Don't rely on Congress for oversight. Too many thumbs in this Christmas pie.

[WarGamer]

23. Post.Of.The.Day.

[Takket]

11. i guess i'll answer a question with another question

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2022, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

What would the USA look like without it?

Honestly is it bloated beyond belief. We send a trillion dollars into every year without even questioning it in any way. i remember a few years ago the military actually complaining that Congress was ordering tanks the military didn't even need.

But on the other hand we can't just depend on the industry popping up from nothing if a war comes. so it is sort of like buying insurance in that my house might not be on fire today, but if it ever is, i need to know i can get what i need to recover.

I feel it is good that it exists, but lots of fat need to be trimmed and allocated elsewhere.

[ColinC]

14. Absolutely agreed

[WarGamer]

19. Without it?

It's not a 0/1,000,000,000 question.

We need to tell the DoD, "Your budget is cut by 10% next year and 2% a year for the next 10. Make do with what you have"

[ColinC]

20. Without proper audits I can see this turning into a grifting Russia type sitch

[WarGamer]

21. 5 straight failed audits.

The DoD can't account for over a trillion dollars.

[ColinC]

24. And if we give them less money, suddenly our planes start falling apart while Contractor CEOs buy

Bigger boats

[WarGamer]

25. I don't know the solution...

Congressional oversight isn't working.

Need some independent body, immune from campaign donations.

[ColinC]

27. Agreed

It’s pretty bad. I think it’s a bit of blind luck our stuff still works as well as it does.

[WarGamer]

18. $21T spent since 9/11

I think we probably could have gotten away with $10T and been A-OK and safe...

And taken the rest to make life better for Americans.

[Mr.Bill]

28. It is the federal governments #1 taxpayer-funded jobs program.

One can only imagine what the unemployment rate would be if it shut down tomorrow.

That being said, Imagine if education and/or health care was the #1 taxpayer-funded jobs program.