TX 12 year old boy kills Sonic employee by shooting him repeatedly with an AR15..

[Demovictory9]

[onecaliberal]

1. When will karma get the people arming sickos in this country

This is fucking ridiculous.

[elocs]

41. When karma appears to work, everybody points it out.

When karma doesn't work, nobody seems to mention it.

[wnylib]

49. Only when the relatives of RW legislators and

gun manufacturers are murdered in a brutally horrifying setting will there be a chance of change. No guarantee of it, but a slim chance at least.

[Historic NY]

60. possibly

[intheflow]

80. Doubtful.

It will just sharpen their resolve to arm everyone because the problem was obviously no good guy with a gun.

[SYFROYH]

82. Dead Republican family membere will only lead to calls to arm up civilians.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Damn! Then you start clicking on the little arrows on the right...

and the news gets worse.

And worse.

[NowISeetheLight]

3. Prosecute

OK… whoever owns that gun and let a 12 year old get a hold of it needs to be charged with something. Maybe we need a new “crime”. Like ‘Allowing access to a firearm which led to death’. Make it a felony with mandatory prison time.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

5. There's already such a law on the books,

it's called accessory after the fact or accessory to the crime.
I hope the DA's office looks into this to see if it could be used in this instance.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. But it's Texas so . . .

We'll see.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. Touche'. nt

[TNNurse]

30. Accessory to murder is a felony isn't it???

[Duppers]

74. Bingo.👍

[grantcart]

45. The guns owner was fighting with the Sonic employee who

came out to tell the gun owner to stop urinating in the parking lot.

[Smackdown2019]

50. You freaking kidding me?

Why are these wackos allowed a freaking gun? Intelligence is a must, or it should be. But in Texas, gun in one hand and beer in the other...

In this case, a twig in one hand......

Freaking Rednecks!

[AndyS]

4. I have it on good authority from some other DUers that this could be

easily avoided by not doing drugs, not staying in an abusive relationship, living in the right community and just being an average person. Yeah, I was told that earlier today in a thread right here on DU.

We're all perfectly safe. I heard it here.

[brooklynite]

6. Focusing on a dramatic shooting doesn't change the odds, which are vanishingly small.

[AndyS]

8. Here ya' go . . .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1172212948

[brooklynite]

9. I'm not addressing the causes of shootings, I'm addressing the likelihood.

[AndyS]

11. Yeah, what a coincidence that the phrasing is so close . . . nt

[TexasDem69]

33. Where does anyone on DU

Say what you claim in that thread? I just see a couple of comments from you.

[AndyS]

65. Don't want to get specific because TOS has rules about 'calling out' others.

It's right here in this thread and others-- the odds are so low it isn't important. Adjectives like "vanishingly small" or "statistically insignificant" and "tiny". Usually followed by something like 'it happens but not where I am' which is to say it's over there with those people, the others.

[electric_blue68]

70. Er... what kind of "those people" and "the others" are you talking about?

Race? Class? ______ what else?

I've lived in 3 majorly Latino neighborhoods in the past 13+ years. A mix of white to black. Also with some African-Americans, and naybe non-Hispanic whites. From poorish to working, to maybe lower middle class. The stats are probably higher than a middle class white neighborhood, but I generally felt, and feel safe. Yeah the first year I was in my previous neighborhood some blocks away was a painted monument to someone who might of gotten shot. The next year in the block around the corner one of those high lifted cop observation stations. That went away and never happened again in the 11 yrs I was there.

Previously a white and Carribean American, some African-Americans. Except for some ?drug raids the first step year or two a block over or so (helicopters at night in a non high traffic [cars] area).
Again an area that might be considered less safe? I was fine

[intheflow]

81. As a white person,

Last edited Tue May 16, 2023, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

I’ve noticed white people bend over backwards to “other” everyone. It’s the same mentality of the people who still post “Is this America?” after every shooting, lynching, insurrection. White culture loves othering others because as “decent white folks” this (whatever) behavior doesn’t happen in my backyard. It’s not a conscious thing, but that’s the insidious nature of white supremacy culture.

[f_townsend]

35. Prove that the odds of getting shot in the US are "vanishingly small" n/t

[brooklynite]

38. Deaths from gun violence in 2022 were 20,138...

The US population in 2022 was 333,287,557

That's one death per 16,550 or 0.000049

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/12/gun-violence-deaths-statistics-america/
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=us+population+2022&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Thunderbeast]

47. If you walked into a basketball arena...capacity 16,550

with the certain knowledge that one person in the arena was to be shot and killed...

Would you still walk into the building?

[brooklynite]

48. But I wouldn't...

...because that's a NATIONAL estimate. The number of people at risk in any geographic area is even smaller.

As I said before, I went to a Broadway show this weekend and walked through the huge crowds in Times Square. Didn't think about the risk of a shooting for one second.

[AZLD4Candidate]

54. Okay. Let's do nothing because you feel safe. Meanwhile, the slaughter continues.

[electric_blue68]

68. Wait. Why do you think he doesn't care? I also feel safe in general in the same city he's in. AND

I want that AR-15 and similar guns banned the way they were before the friggin Repuglicans let that law ?sunset.

If some kind of ammo limits can be imposed somehow - great.
And other possible laws I don't know about.

I wish we could take all those AR-15s and similar guns away from people!
You don't need weapons of war.

Keep your pistols, rifles, shot guns etc. But would it be so wrong to even limit the amount anyone has of those?

[AZLD4Candidate]

73. I believe all guns should be regulated as hard as alcohol.

[electric_blue68]

75. I don't think you answered my question. Why do you think brooklynite doesn't care...

bc he doesn't believe exactly what you believe as regards gun control?

Now I don't know what brooklynite believes are far as gun control goes.
All he said was he felt safe going to see a play Midtown Manhattan. Unless I missed something.


Btw Interesting thought on guns regulated like hard alcohal.

[AZLD4Candidate]

77. "that's never happened to me" is one of the most flippant, dismissive responses ever

it's tantamount to saying "maybe you're at fault for what happened because THAT never happened to me."

It's about as flippant as "tell me how you really feel."

[AndyS]

56. So, it's not OUR problem, it's those people over there who are at risk.

You are right about geography. In Alaska the risk of being shot is ~ one in 1,300 in Hawaii it's one in 13,000. Seems strict gun laws work.

National average is one in ~ 2400 at risk of being shot. Just not us. It's the others. Those people not like us.

How low does the number have to go before 'we' feel at risk? One in 1000? One in 500? Or just the day someone 'we' love is shot.

When does it get serious enough to make Hawaii's laws national?

[brooklynite]

59. "How low does the number have to go before 'we' feel at risk?"

I can't answer for "you" or "we". I can answer for "me". However, I'll point you to the responses to the latest "Do shootings make you afraid to go out?" thread (universally "no" )

[AndyS]

63. I have a post in that thread. nt

[AllyCat]

58. this

Other countries don’t have the 16,000 deaths because they don’t have all the fucking guns.

[EX500rider]

66. You mean besides the 60 countries with a higher homicide rate?

Including the Bahamas, Jamaica, Costa Rica
Etc

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[electric_blue68]

71. I might. I could be run over by a car that someone (medical emergency, or intentionality) in my big

city.

[Kaleva]

76. Would you get in a car knowing the odds?

My guess is that you do and you do so feeling quite safe despite the fact that over twice as many people die in car accidents then by gun violence.


My view is that most people who say they need a gun for self defense don't actually do. The odds of needing a lethal weapon to preserve life or limb are extremely small for the great majority of us. That's the situation for me and thus I do not live in fear of guns or of being a victim of a crime involving a gun.

[f_townsend]

83. You're ludicrous contention is called: Lying with statistics

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

APRIL 26, 2023
BY JOHN GRAMLICH

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That included record numbers of both gun murders and gun suicides. Despite the increase in such fatalities, the rate of gun deaths – a statistic that accounts for the nation’s growing population – remained below the levels of earlier decades.

Here’s a closer look at gun deaths in the United States, based on a Pew Research Center analysis of data from the CDC, the FBI and other sources. You can also read key public opinion findings about U.S. gun violence and gun policy...

[brooklynite]

84. "More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021" is "many", not "a significant percentage"

It is a fact that you're less likely to die by gunfire than in a biking accident.

Since you've accused me a lying, please enlighten us with the truth about the chances of being shot.

[f_townsend]

85. What's the chance of being a victim of a gun crime in the USA?

Get back to us when you want to stop the bullshit.

[brooklynite]

86. I'm sorry that you're so scared of something that's likely never to happen to you.

[f_townsend]

87. How would you know what's "likely" to happen to me?

I deal directly with the general public everyday, where any random person might confront me with a gun. That's a similar situation I share with many millions of other Americans.

I see from your background that you're privileged enough to not have to deal with that, so your opinion about gun violence statistics doesn't mean jack shit.

[brooklynite]

88. "you're privileged enough to not have to deal with that"

Because I'm upper income, I don't deal with the general public?

I live in the largest city in the nation. I ride crowded subway cars. I walk through hordes of tourists. I go to crowded restaurants and theaters. When I was working (now retired) I engaged with the public (frequently a grumpy group) regularly.

The reality, again, is the the statistical odds of a gun crime happening to you is below minimal.

[AllyCat]

40. Vanishing?

Increasing gun violence but vanishing….how? Because we have more people every day? And yet, it could be vanishinger if we didn’t have PHUCKING GUNS EVERYWHERE.

[brooklynite]

42. VANISHINGLY (adverb)

"so as to be almost nonexistent or invisible"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vanishingly#:~:text=%3A%20so%20as%20to%20be%20almost%20nonexistent%20or%20invisible

[AllyCat]

57. Guess I interpret that definition in the same way

As the families of the victims of the hundreds of mass shootings we’ve had this year and it’s not even fucking June yet.

[Demsrule86]

14. What thread?

[stopdiggin]

19. we are considerable safer from harm

at the hands of an incident such as this - than we are a whole host of other things. It's the exaggeration of the threat to our own, individual, personal safety ...

I think most (OK, vast majority) here on DU will readily agree that gun violence is a serious, and crescendoing, issue. Way too many guns - and way too many of them in the wrong hands. Where you're likely to meet resistance is when it is suggested that we should all be cowering under our beds - or hesitant to go out for groceries, visit a sick friend, or to pick up a prescription. That level of fear (paranoia) is simply not justified.

Edit: (went back and read your posted thread) What a completely contrived strawman! Show me I time when anybody here is saying, "No need to do anything about guns, because ..." Does my post sound anything like that to you?

[AndyS]

25. Not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that it's only a matter of time.

The problem is more serious than we know.

National death rate is (rounding) 14 per 100,000. That's 1.4 per 10,000. That's one per 7000.

That's for DEATH from guns. Injuries usually occur at a rate of twice deaths. That makes being shot odds of 1/2300.

If you live in Alaska the numbers are 1/4000 to die and 1/1300 shot.

Gettin' more real now?

[plimsoll]

21. I'm not going to justify the comment, but

From a purely statistical perspective that's almost certainly true. At the same time people do win the lottery so there's that.

It's also true that Fox wants us to be afraid. If you can accept that many of these suicide shooters are getting radicalized by the same political sources, you can see that the right wing terrorists have been waging war for the last 30 years.

It's less a matter of is it safe, and more a matter of do we submit to the terrorism?

[AndyS]

26. Or do we REACT to the terrorism. nt

[plimsoll]

43. We react regardless.

How we react matters.

I'm not prepared to give in to the terrorists. As one of their darlings said a few years ago, "your either with us, or you're against us" when it comes to terrorism. If the right insists on pretending that the violence isn't coming predominantly if not exclusively from their side, obviously they're against us.

I dearly want to see gun violence reduced, but I am also tired of hearing that 2nd amendment people saying that it infringes on their rights. If the only way to protect their rights is by encouraging terrorism, then it's pretty obvious that they are the ones trampling on the rights of others.

This is a problem their own media likes to highlight, but also likes to disappear the rightwing politics accompanying it. Fox lies people die. Newsmax, Objectively Pro-Terrorist. Still need one for OANN.

[yonder]

51. +1. Good post/points.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

22. In my experience, this kind of rhetoric always comes from people

who have NEVER experienced gun violence, seen it happen (literally) in front of them or had to deal with the fall out of that tragedy.

I say this as a survivor. ANYONE who tries to sell me this shit, gets a verbal ass-kicking they will never forget.

[AndyS]

32. Get your shoes on you're gonna need em.

Had two guns pointed at me but survived--only one discharged.

Lost a nephew to suicide and YES that is gun violence.

Acquaintance's daughter survived gunshot wound to the chest because he had military experience with sucking chest wounds.

Grand children had three active shooters in their school district in one year.

Have I been shot? No. Do I have to be shot to react viscerally? Again, no.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

34. Sadly, Andy, you are correct.

One does not need to experience something to express feelings of empathy, sympathy or simple human compassion. But it seems all are sorely lacking in our society today.

And, I have a whole closet of shoes for selected occasions.

But I will never normalize this sh*t or accept it as the "new normal" as I have been coached to do lately.

[AndyS]

62. I miss-read your reply. Seems we are singing from the same hymnal on the same page

and same verse.

The odds of being shot in the US is about 1 in 2400. Put that in perspective. How many times do we touch a light switch in a day? A month? If we were severely shocked once every 2400 times we touched a light switch how would we approach that switch?

It isn't just those people over there anymore. No longer the inner city, the gangs, the poor. You know, those 'others'. It's happening to Wally and the Beaver at the local fast food joint.

I don't know how you were touched by this pandemic of violece but I've seen it in the eyes of other survivors.

[phylny]

78. From my point of view, it's more than the odds of

being shot. It’s children who go through active shooter drills in school. It sounds terrifying.

[Maru Kitteh]

27. Last week I heard women shouldn't be allowed to moderate tfg,

especially the skinny ones. Because that was the problem.

[Zeitghost]

67. It's clear you did not understand my post

Or are intentionally misrepresenting my position.

If you want to challenge my claims, please try to get them correct.

The facts are that your chances of getting shot are reduced dramatically by: not engaging in gang banging or the drug trade, not living with abusive violent people and not shooting yourself. Random acts of violence against strangers, while tragic, is simply not a statistically likely way to get shot.

[Red Mountain]

89. Don't forget.....

not working at Sonic.

[Fullduplexxx]

7. Maybe if he understood the ar doesn't stand for automatic file

He'd wouldn't have fired

[Sky Jewels]

10. WHY?!?!

[BlueCheeseAgain]

12. A 12 year old!

Geez. Such a depressing story.

[Eko]

13. The fact that this is not the Onion

Shows how far we have come from sanity.

[Freethinker65]

15. So much wrong with this.

Why couldn't the dad have pissed in the bathroom? Why was the kid conditioned to grab an AR and start shooting? Why was the guy driving around with a loaded AR in the car and his 12 year old at a Sonic? Why is the first thought of that TX woman to plant a cross, teddy bear, and fu$king Mardi Gras beads and talk to the press thinking that will make the situation easier for anyone?

The neighborhood woman gets it. Why TF did the 12 yo kid have access to a lethal weapon and why was shooting it repeatedly the option he took? Have a disagreement, go get yer gun, that's how you settle things in TX. Insanity.

[Blue Owl]

16. A little Kyle Rittenhouse in training

Heart goes out to the employee... someone trying to make an honest living doesn't deserved to be struck down by a juvenile delinquent playing with daddy's assault rifle....

[Initech]

17. Thanks, NRA.

[sanatanadharma]

18. Another 2nd amendment Celebration as the USA is reaching "reductio ad absurdum"

The Founding Fathers failed as logicians.

[Old Crow]

20. I am increasingly coming to a sad conclusion.

Namely this: If any opportunity to emigrate from this country presents itself, I should seize it. I have less and less faith that America will return to a path of sanity. We seem to be circling the drain.

Sorry, but how else are we respond to news like this -- especially when it's presented as, "Oh well. Just another day in the USA"?

[Maru Kitteh]

29. +1

[Firestorm49]

28. Apologies to all of our DU friends in Texas, but

what the fuck is going on down there? !!!!

[Skittles]

39. gun humping cowardice is ramant here

remember the Outlet Mall shooting? already old news

[JI7]

69. Also read a Woman was shot to death while helping her daughter get ready for prom

she wasn't targeted but got caught in between some losers shooting at each other.

[IronLionZion]

31. How do we know if someone is a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun?

It really is less important if they didn't have the gun.

I would think a lot of victims of gun violence didn't expect to be shot dead. The statistical likelihood didn't matter to those people. It doesn't make them any less dead/wounded to know the numbers behind it.

[FuzzyRabbit]

36. It is long past time to repeal the 2nd amendment,

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

55. +100

[Mysterian]

92. We just need an honest Supreme Court to interpret the 2A correctly

Consider why the writers included the "well regulated militia" clause. Was it just for shits and giggles, like gun nuts claim, or did they actually include that clause for a reason. But a full repeal would be fine with me.

My opinion: Let people own bolt action hunting rifles and shotguns. I'm perfectly capable of protecting my home with a shotgun. No semi-autos or handguns in private ownership. The vast majority of gun crime is committed with handguns.

[Cha]

37. I looked it up.. I 'd rather read about it..

Keene Sonic worker killed by 12-year-old with AR-15 rifle, police say

End Snip****

According to police, this started when 20-year-old Angel Gomez of Fort Worth arrived at the Sonic with others in his vehicle.

The 12-year-old suspect is at a juvenile facility in Granbury.

"A 12-year-old in this day has access to a gun and kills someone. Breaks my heart mainly," Elliott said.

Davis’ family tells FOX 4 he leaves behind a 10-year-old son. His mother is working to bury her son in Louisiana, where he’s from.

Gomez allegedly began urinating in the back parking lot, so Davis came outside speak to him.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/keene-sonic-worker-killed-by-12-year-old-with-ar-15-rifle-police-say

TY.. Another life destroyed because of Assholes with AR15s

[yonder]

53. Me too, thank you. Awful story no matter how learned of.

[grantcart]

91. Cue "stand your urination defense".

[Ziggysmom]

44. House Republicans Launch Bid to Make AR-15-Style Rifles the "National Gun"

"Four Republicans in the U.S. House — including gun enthusiast Lauren Boebert of Colorado and Andrew Clyde of Georgia, a gun store owner who handed out lapel pins shaped like assault rifles to colleagues this month — want to make an “AR-15 style rifle chambered in a .223 Remington round or a 5.56x45mm NATO round” the first official gun of the United States. AR-15-style rifles have been used in some of the country’s deadliest mass shootings.
The bill’s primary sponsor, Alabama Representative Barry Moore, unveiled the legislation at a gun shop last week. Representative George Santos of New York, embroiled in fraud allegations, is also backing the bill."


https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/ar-15-national-gun-boebert-santos/


They are NUTS

[Smackdown2019]

52. They need to throw an AR15 Party

Send a massive Party invitation in each 50 states and have all their Republican Representatives attend.... pass out all the ammunition and all the liquor.... and get them all worked up. Block their exits! Lets see how those Republicans contend with insensible minds of gun crazed people with the "American Gun". Scary right? That is what normal people fear everyday!

[JI7]

46. Charge him as an adult and lock him away for life

[dlk]

61. Greg Abbott would give the shooter more guns

It’s beyond depraved.

[jmowreader]

64. This reminds me a little of Jerry and Joe Kane

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_West_Memphis_police_shootings

The Kanes were sovereign citizens who were driving a car with no license plates and a brick of marijuana on board. The cops pulled this car over, found out Jerry Kane was a wanted man, and proceeded to arrest him. Joe Kane, 16 years old, jumped out of the car with an AK-47 and killed both officers. They were eventually gunned down by a game warden who happened to be in the area.

[electric_blue68]

72. Hideious. A 12 yr old w a AR-15, WTF?

[pecosbob]

79. I grew up in Houston and was caught up in two different shoot-outs just a couple of years apart.

Both involved robberies and both involved owners returning fire on the perpetrators. Both involved rounds impacting around me and easily could have ended my life.

My take is that this sort of thing is not at all 'rare' in Texas.

[SYFROYH]

90. Hopefully, Gomez, the 20-yr old, get life for felony murder

I don't know what you do with a 12-year in this type of situation. It was an impulsive reaction to setting his family member get into a fight, but I knew not to shoot people at 12-years old even though there were accessible guns.