Blue collar job discrimination. Is this common?

[tridim]

I recently applied for a job doing survey work. My brother works for the company and put in the good word for me.

Today I found out his boss doesn't want to hire me because I've "never worked outside". Now maybe I'm overreacting, but WTF is that supposed to mean? I have a freaking degree in architecture and could do this job with my eyes closed. It sure feels like good old fashioned discrimination. My previous (now dead) IT career is absolutely killing me in the blue-collar job market. I'm overqualified for everything even though I don't own a single white collared shirt. It's not my fault that I'm good at programming computers.

Has anyone else experienced this? Initially it was kind of funny to witness, but it's not so funny any more as I'm starting to eye refrigerator boxes as potential homes.

[ZombieHorde]

1. I have a friend who used to hire people for restraunt jobs.

He told me he wouldn't hire people who were too smart or too educated because they would leave at the first opportunity. He said the best employee was the one who was just smart enough to do the job.

[tridim]

2. I've been told that dozens of times by potential employers.

That too feels like discrimination.

[kelly1mm]

4. Can you honestly say that you would stay at the survey job

if you were offered a job similar to the one you had before in IT or a position with an architecture firm? I have a small business involved in the automotive field but very basic and have two employees. Last position I hired for I had MANY ATE certified mechanics that applied. The position I had available paid about 1/2 of what they were making before (one was about 2/3 higher). Do you think they would (or should) stick it out in my business if they get another offer? I just don't want to deal with the hassle of hiring employees every few months.

[tridim]

6. Absolutely, it's a good paying job with great benefits.

I want a job where I can work outside.

I would however leave say, a minimum wage job at Home Depot. Really a moot point since they won't hire me for the same reason.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Agreed

The criterion is applied because it is a real problem.

[HopeHoops]

3. The biggest discrimination I've run into is being "over-qualified".

If I'm willing to take a job for whatever salary is offered, wouldn't it be a benefit that I've got a shitload of experience? Apparently not.

[kelly1mm]

5. There are costs and hassles with hiring employees and having employees leave.

It is better to hire someone for the job that has the skills/experience required and comenserate with the pay so they will stay in the position. The overqualified person will do the job for the salary offered but will generally (and I am not blaming them) leave if a position that pays a higher wage in accordance with their experience.

[HopeHoops]

9. I can walk into pretty much any job and do it within a few hours.

It costs a shitload more to teach someone with more experience on an Xbox than a computer than it does to let a veteran just sit down and start working. That's not the way the bean counters think. I (and my peers) can out-code any upcoming star, and I don't mean that to be demeaning. I was an "upcoming star" when I got into the business over 30 years ago. They called me a "wizz kid" because I knew the difference between a serial port and a parallel port. Go figure. I also knew machine code on several processors but nobody in the hiring process had a fucking clue what that meant.

The assumption is that if you have experience (in any trade) you cost too much. Why do you think our country is falling into third-world status in many areas? Companies want throw away workers at low salary. If it costs too much, they'll outsource it to under-qualified off-shore contractors for more than it would cost to hire a veteran worker. (NOTE: by "veteran", I'm referring to an elder of the industry in question, not a member of the services. I have the highest level of respect for veterans, but the word does transcend the military use.)

Older workers are also the ones most likely to stay in a position. Training costs are substantial and the turnover for younger people is rather high. Why the fuck can't companies grasp that? I'm doing contract work now and making an okay living, but I would take a position if a company offered it. I can do the work of ten upstarts in half of the time. That's not an insult to the "upstarts", just a reality check for employers. The young kids need a chance too. I make more doing contract work than I would in a salaried position, but it isn't as consistent and requires a lot of jumping around between technologies.

I've been a subject of managers and a manager handling employees, so I know it from both sides. End of rant.

[TheWraith]

7. Sometimes companies don't want to hire people "too smart" for the job...

For a few reasons. One is that they assume that you'll just then find a better job, somewhere else, and force them to go back and find another candidate after they already hired you and started training you.

Another reason is sometimes they assume that someone who's "smart" and usually has a more intellectual field is going to be no good at something requiring physical work, or they'll be lazy, or do it sloppily, etcetera.

[tridim]

8. Precisely. It's discrimination.

They are NOT an EOE.

[xmas74]

11. The third is that the boss is worried about their own job.

I remember a few years ago sitting in on a hiring board. Interviews were held and each person had a question to ask the potential employee. One young man was perfect-highly intelligent, knew exactly what the job entailed, had a bit of experience in the field, etc. His family still lived in the area (less likely to up and move) and he had a school age child. The board made a recommendation for him to be offered the position.

We gave the results to our boss and our recommendations. His answer? "Sounds like he'd put me out of MY job in five years" and then shredded the paperwork in front of us.

I decided that was my queue to find a new job asap.

[doc03]

10. I have been laid off many times from a job in a steel mill represented by

the USW. Everyone around here knows if you were a member of a union you just as well not apply at most employers. Another reason we couldn't get hired anywhere is they knew if the mill called us back would quit.

[WingDinger]

12. Many want a malleable starter. Not some we did it this way.

A lot of times, top notch places will not hire anyone with a lot of exp. they want to train them in the only way they will know. that makes them somewhat useless anywhere else.

[tridim]

13. Again, textbook discrimination.

Every bit as unfair as discrimination based on sex, skin color, age and sexual preference.

Last time I checked, employment discrimination is illegal.

BTW, the job in question specifically stated that it "Requires no experience".

[surrealAmerican]

14. Even when a job is listed as requiring "no experience" ...

... they usually will prefer an applicant with some relevant experience if they find one.

[tridim]

18. There's nothing wrong with that.

But that's apparently not the reason I was disqualified.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Having a set of criteria for what makes a successful worker

and applying those is not "discrimination," or, rather, it IS discrimination, but the good kind.

The question isn't whether you CAN do the job. It's whether you WILL do the job, or jump ship at the first office job you find. That's something this particular manager has probably seen before, so he has a little criterion for 'working outside.' There's actually nothing wrong with that, even if it does hurt you in this instance. He's making a reasonable judgment about your potential based on past experience, and based on a completely non-personal criterion.

[tridim]

17. He hired my brother, who had no "outdoor" experience short of being a caddy one summer.

But he also doesn't have a college degree and a long record of desk jobs. I've also been a paper boy, a lawn mower, a snow shoveler, a delivery driver, a restaurant shift manager and a high volume line cook. None of which apparently matters because I applied myself and taught myself how to program computers later in life.

It's discrimination, based on his (wrong) opinion of who I am and what I can do.