I've never been so excited

[MannyGoldstein]

about maintaining the status quo.

Man, has victory been redefined for Democrats.

[madrchsod]

1. i guess the alternative was worse

[djean111]

2. Bwah! How perfectly and elegantly true!

[patrice]

3. Identify your ground. Make a stand. PRESS forward. Works for me! nt

[Rex]

4. I was wondering what you would opine

about the non-starter, starter deal. A lot shorter than I expected!

[MjolnirTime]

5. so raising rates on the rich is the status quo? You will never let Obama win.

Face it. You have an incontrovertible dislike for the man that you just cannot move beyond.

It's sad, really.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Isn't it just letting cuts expire?

Whatever.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. You want more? Get a Democratic house.

Or i suppose thats Obama's fault, too.

[Doctor_J]

17. We tried that in 2009-2010

didn't work. Got tax cut extensions and insurance mandates.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Right. Insurance Companies can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Scandalous, I know.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. That's a good thing.

But health insurance company stocks are near all-time highs again. Because it's a very, very expensive thing. Which I don't think it needed to be.

[liberal_at_heart]

32. and the insurance companies are getting rich off of me

I'm paying $775/month in premiums.

[Skittles]

42. they can charge what they want though

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Perfect? No. Ideal? No. An improvement? Yes.

I've never wavered in my support for a SPHC system. However, without (really) wanting to dive back into the endlessly re-hashed arguments over the mandate, the fact is you can't have guaranteed issue without one.

[sabrina 1]

72. That was a crime that should never have been allowed in this country

to deny treatment to sick people by the 'healthcare' industry??? It was unbelievable and should never have been attached to any HC bill, Congress should have dealt with the crime separately. Long ago.

But we are like abused spouses. We get beaten so many times by our own elected officials that we are sooooo very grateful to them when they promise to stop beating us for short time.

Our expectations have been lowered and lowered to the point where you can say 'but look how lucky we are, they gave sick people health care finally. Do you realize how ludicrous this is? Do you even know how we are viewed in other countries where to deny anyone treatment is considered a major crime, in fact it just doesn't happen?

Americans have been so abused for so long that we are so easily pleased now all they have to do as they take away even MORE of what we are entitled as human beings, as they did in that HC bill, is to give us back something that was ours and we fall all over ourselves kissing their feet for returning to us a right that never should have been taken away in the first place.

Tell you what, I am furious that people were actually denied health care when they needed it and that so many died, and I am furious that no one has gone to jail for denying life saving treatment to human beings.

All that is forgotten, all the people who died, because they took away the PO and gave back something they stole in the first place.

You be grateful if you wish, but remember, this is where they want us, beaten down so much we will accept crumbs with overwhelming gratitude. Well not me, they are thieves and crooks and I see no reason to be grateful to a thief or a crook for anything.

[JEB]

79. Many excellent points.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

[mzmolly]

18. No. It's the alternative to the Republican plan.

The expiration date, was put in place because Democrats refused a permanent tax cut. Democrats and the President are currently refusing a permanent tax cut.

[Walk away]

53. So we'll be running the counrty on fumes under your "no more taxes for anyone" plan? nt

[mzmolly]

61. I don't need to have a plan.

The plan I supported was Obama's tax increase for those with an AGI over 250K. You?

[MirrorAshes]

95. Grover Norquist, is that you?

You're using the same "logic."

[MannyGoldstein]

96. Yes, I'm Grover Norquist

Tagg Romney sometimes takes over this identity when I'm on holiday.

[MirrorAshes]

97. No actual response I see.

I'm Shocked! Shocked I tell you.

Just cut the defeatist bullshit, straw man arguments and RW talking points.

[MannyGoldstein]

98. I answered the only question that you asked, no?

Perhaps my reading skills are failing?

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Oh, I don't think it's for the man

Gnaw mean?

[MADem]

7. .....

[JoePhilly]

50. Perfect response!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

8. I guess thats as close to an expression of approval

As some people are ever gonna get.

[MannyGoldstein]

39. See post 15

And weep.

[spanone]

11. with this congress, we're lucky to get anyfuckingthing. blame them.

[ProSense]

12. Here's something

to get excited about that's not the "status quo."

New Affordable Care Act tax hike for high earners kicks in with the new year
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022093669

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Definitely a good thing! nt

[mzmolly]

13. Enjoying your

crow?

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Which crow would that be? nt

[mzmolly]

16. The "Obama wants to cut S.S."

crow?

[Doctor_J]

19. He does

[mzmolly]

20. No.

That's why I called it - crow.

[Doctor_J]

21. The president disagrees with you

"But David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI, which sounds real technical but basically makes an adjustment in terms of how inflation is calculated on Social Security. Highly unpopular among Democrats. Not something supported by AARP. But in pursuit of strengthening Social Security for the long-term I'm willing to make those decisions."

- President Obama

So Obama says that Dems and seniors are not OK with benefit cuts, but he is willing to stand up to us and make them anyway.

Is English your 2nd or 3rd language or something?

[Oilwellian]

22. Crickets n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

27. You Liberals with your "transcripts" and your "math" and

all of that "reality" that you rub our noses in.

You think you're so smart.

[mzmolly]

33. The statement by Obama

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:21 AM - Edit history (1)

was nothing of consequence. It's politics, my friend.

[MNBrewer]

58. So how do you tell when Obama is telling the truth vs. lying?

Because I'd really like to know, or is it all wishful thinking on your part?

[mzmolly]

59. He didn't lie.

He said what amounts to nothing.

[MNBrewer]

63. So you're going with "wishful thinking"

[mzmolly]

66. I'm going with political

thinking.

[MNBrewer]

80. So lies, then.

[SammyWinstonJack]

81. heh.

[mzmolly]

85. Saying - "I'll make those decisions" is lying about what, exactly?

[MNBrewer]

86. What part of saying

"one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI" but not actually proposing it (in your view) isn't lying about proposing Chain CPI?

[mzmolly]

87. That's right, a proposal -

sans a decision.

Ever play poker?

[Autumn]

88. In 2016 I'm going to vote for a President that doesn't play games

like poker or gazillion dimensional chess or Charlie Brown football. If the Democratic party doesn't put one forward I'll just write in a name. Nothing wrong with dealing honest with the people who elect you. And offering a chained CPI is not honest.

[mzmolly]

91. I'm going to vote for the most progressive

candidate, with a shot in hell of winning.

[mzmolly]

31. No he doesn't.

Some, apparently don't understand political double speak.

[MNBrewer]

54. So when is it "Change we can believe in" and when is it "Change that we shouldn't believe in

because it's actually political double speak"?

[progressoid]

55. +1

[mzmolly]

60. That's cute.

I'm guessing you're of the "R's and D's are the same" stripe?

[MNBrewer]

64. Well, not exactly the same

Lots of similarities, to be sure.

one of the differences I expect is lies from Republicans and truths from Democrats. Democrats say what they mean and Republicans say the opposite of what they mean.

Where I get confused is when people say a Democrat ISN'T saying what is plainly meant by the words spoken.

[mzmolly]

65. I didn't see any declarations, other than

"I'll make decisions..."

You don't appear to expect truth from Democrats. You appear to suggest dishonesty, quite regularly?

[Liberalynn]

69. Nice try.

Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:27 PM - Edit history (2)

I am not a Puke and I don't appreciate the implication that every one who questions the President on a stand he took is. I am a Democrat full and true yet I question the President on Chained CPI.

I've always felt that it is my duty as an American citizen and as a party member to speak up when I feel our country or our party for that matter is headed in the wrong direction. They may not be wrong but they maybe. Citizens letting their elected officials know when they are happy or unhappy with the actions that are being taken is part of the basic premise of Democracy. Its what is taught in basic civics classes. No one should be offended or harmed by a fellow citizen offering their opinion as is their right to do, and the person's loyalty should not be questioned.

Its not expecting Democrats to be dishonest, its expecting them to listen to the people who help elect them. They don't always have to agree or even do what we want all of the time, but they should be expected to hear us out, even when we are critical of them. That's Democracy.

If we were never allowed to question our leaders we would all still be singing God Save the Queen.

As to the issue at hand Chained CPI:

This is a direct quote from the Meet the Press transcript from President Obama:

"but I already have, David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI, which sounds real technical but basically makes an adjustment in terms of how inflation is calculated on Social Security"

I bolded the specific part I am basing my conclusion on in regards to where the President stands on Chained CPI. Note he said "we made" meaning his administration.

I feel I am taking him at his word.

[mzmolly]

70. Ask yourself

why Rs would resist a chained CPI and if Obama knew they would.

[Liberalynn]

46. +1

The only reason it is not in a deal so far is because Harry Reid said no.

[mzmolly]

62. You don't suppose Reid and Obama

chat, do you?

[Liberalynn]

67. While I am sure they talk

I am not privileged to know what they discuss. One could guess, but then one might not be right either.

Happy New Year.

[mzmolly]

68. Happy New Year

to you, also.

[blue neen]

75. I'm sure you didn't mean to make second languages a subject for ridicule.

There are so many wonderful people I've met who have spent their whole lives learning to master the English language while working so hard in this country.

Happy New Year.

[Nutsmustbecracked]

25. It's better than the alternative.

[JReed]

26. No, these are exciting times...

...lobbyists, apparatchiks, corporate funding out the yahzoo and everyone gets dirty.

But hey can't we pretend?

[RandiFan1290]

37. It's all good!

[DJ13]

28. I'm happy

I voted for mediocrity, and thats exactly what I got.

Yay!

[ananda]

29. Let's have a bonfire of the mediocraties.

..

[serbbral]

30. Okay, did I miss something?

[NashvilleLefty]

34. Wow, talk about pessimism.

I can always count on you to bring me down.

[JReed]

38. Interesting book here

Check it out.

Bright-Sided: How Positive Thinking Is Undermining America

[Odin2005]

45. There a difference between Optimism and delusional "positive thinking".

The optimist says "What options do I have in this sticky situation?", the Positive Thinking idiot denies the sticky situation even exists.

[UtahLib]

35. A jab here and a jab there must be your preferred method of blowing off steam. n/t

[rhett o rick]

36. I always wonder about posters that put "liberal" or "lib" in their name. Does it mean you are a

liberal?

[UtahLib]

40. I like to think so, especially concerning religion and tolerance. Why do you ask? n/t

[Fumesucker]

41. Because it's a common "tell" of people who sign up to disrupt or be otherwise disingenuous

Not saying that everyone with that sort of name is a troll but it's more common than you might imagine.

[Liberalynn]

47. That is not the case in my case

I chose Liberal in my name because I am a liberal. It has always angered me that Pukes stole that "word" away from us. I consider calling one's self a "progressive" as a "concession" to the other side that "liberal" is a dirty word when it is not. So I won't call myself a "Progressive" for that reason. Yes I believe in progress but not abandoning my principles due to Puke distortion.

ETA: I don't mean to imply that everyone who calls themselves progressives are conceding to PUKES. it is just how I personally feel about using the term Progressive over Liberal.

[rhett o rick]

49. Yes, thank you. Well stated. nm

[UtahLib]

71. I don't believe the bar has been set so low at DU.

In light of your explanation, anything I might post can be seen as suspect based solely on the name I have chosen. Even so, I can assure you that I have always held what I considered to be Liberal Democratic beliefs.

I am a strong supporter of Civil Rights and unions. I hate that the faction controlling the republican party is dragging us backwards. I know that corporations are not people and believe corporate influence and money are corrupting our political system. I would like to see the lobbying of our representatives by corporatists ended. I think banks should be strictly regulated. I don't believe religious doctrine should be allowed to influence our political process or the establishment of laws. It has always been difficult for me to deal with what I perceive to be injustice.

Though I know there has been justifiable concern at DU concerning trolls, I am surprised at the implication that I might be one. Perhaps I've wasted my time by what some might see as explaining myself but there it is.

[Fumesucker]

74. When I signed up on DU I expected to make a dozen or two posts at the most

So I spent no time at all trying to come up with a clever name, I was running on financial fumes at the time and I had just come back from a bicycle ride on a road where I was almost literally sucking fumes from the tail pipes of big trucks. It was the first thing that popped into my head and I just typed it out.

What I was doing in the post you replied to was stating a fact that I have observed, not trying to imply any particular poster is a troll. It's a fairly common thing for conservatives who wish to troll DU to choose something like LibDemForevah3000.

For the most part DUers base their opinion of you on what you write but n00bs really have to watch their step because there are a few land mines around DU that will surprise the unwary and we have had an absolute avalanche of right wing trolls here in the last few months particularly so a lot of old timers are on high alert.

Anyhow, welcome to DU!

[UtahLib]

78. Thank you for responding and the welcome.

I'll admit that confrontation is not my strong suit and I don't believe screaming and name calling leads to a satisfactory result in life or on a message board. I've been witness to a lot of that at DU since the election and posted a knee jerk and ill advised response to this OP. Since I've never felt compelled to join or post on any other site, I certainly appreciate your advice. I'm still very happy to have found DU.

[Autumn]

89. I always heard that sucker in anyone's name is a common "tell".

I read it on DU. Who would have thought that. kidding I don't think for a minute you are a troll, just seemed to fit your post.

[Fumesucker]

92. Did you read my later post about how I came up with the name?

I thought about changing it during the last name amnesty but decided not to, I'm used to the jokes by now.

[Autumn]

94. If I remember correctly you explained that before. That's why I felt

comfortable teasing you. It's a good name.

[rhett o rick]

52. You seemed to be dissing the OP which is complaining about "just" maintaining

the status quo. Typically, liberals fight for improvements for We The People and dont like "just" maintaining the status quo. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

[Liberalynn]

48. Yes it means I am a liberal

I believe in Civil Rights first, last, and always. They should just exist and be accepted for all period and should never be put up to a vote. Also I believe in preserving the Social Safety Net. If that makes me a purist so be it.

[Odin2005]

44. Uh, The Baggers control the House, Manny.

Nothing progressive is going to pass the House.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Until we learn to inflict pain on the opposition

instead of giving them warm foot baths:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022102773
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022102482

[Fumesucker]

76. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples

Giving loving warm footbaths to the Republicans would be a really loving and bipartisany thing to do.

Even better than washing their cars and walking their dogs.

[hootinholler]

84. Well, two things

First that implies that the Rs are our disciples, and how did that whole thing work out for Jesus?

[JoePhilly]

51. Strike 7 ... !!!

Swing and a miss.

[progressoid]

56. It's another big fucking deal!

[blue neen]

73. You are, indeed, preserving the "status quo."

Enjoy the excitement!

[JEB]

77. Yeah, not bad

for a bunch of Corporate, warmongering Imperialists.

[n2doc]

82. Hey, when you are on a slippery slope, just standing still is a win! n/t

[randome]

83. Nicely put.

[lunatica]

90. I don't think

I will ever click on a thread of yours again.

[MineralMan]

93. I am sure that if you were truly

excited by a political outcome, Manny, I would be deathly afraid.