Do you think the President is a good "negotiator"?

[kentuck]

Or do you think he is too quick to compromise?

I do not believe he prefers conflict over negotiation. I believe he weighs his decisions very carefully. Also, I believe he does not make his decision from a Party position. In my opinion, he does what he thinks is best for the country.

Still, as many know, I disagree with the President from time to time. However, I think he has given the Repubs another opening with this cliff "deal". And I do not think they will hesitate to take it. The "debt limit" debate is their next chance to make spending cuts. Because if the House does not pass the funding that pays the debt, then cuts have to be made. Which cuts are you in favor of?

Because we are not ready to bite the bullet and let the entire Bush taxcuts expire and then fight for emergency funding for our unemployed and those on food stamps. Do you truly believe the Repubs would not fund these programs if the heat was put on them? It would be a tough battle but one that Democrats have fought for before and would not be as unusual as some novice Democrats seem to believe. Surrender to Republican demands is new to the Democratic Party - although some will argue that it started before Bill Clinton.

So we will return to this battle once again. Without the deal, we would have had enough funds coming into the Treasury to put off the debt limit vote in a couple of months. Our future economy would look much better but there would have been temporary setbacks in the market and in the economy at large. But that is the bullet we would have had to take to stop the extortion cycle that has been set in place.

This is where I disagree with the President but I am only one voice. I do believe the President's heart is in the right place.

[Angry Dragon]

1. LOL

I would not want him to be my lawyer in a court case

[chimpymustgo]

26. You have made your point expertly. Well done.

[JimDandy]

31. And that's the bottom line really.

He's simply not that great at what he was trained to do.

My brother was trained as a negotiator and, based on outcomes, he appears to be very good at it. He is only now going to law school and will undoubtedly do very well at that occupation because he is a good negotiator.

Obama's outcomes, while not as bad as the last go around with Congress, are not what most Democrats and in fact most Americans wanted. If you've got political capital then good heavens surround yourself with great negotiators who will spend it effectively.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

32. That's bullsh!t analogy.

But I expect nothing less from purists.

[Angry Dragon]

33. And you are assuming something that is not in evidence

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

2. Those who complain still can't tell us how a more liberal plan gets through

Congress. All they do is trash this president.

[kentuck]

6. The "plan" is to let the Bush taxcuts expire...

and to put the Republican extortion machine out of business. It would not be easy and we would have to fight for the most needy but it needs to be done. We cannot continue the extortion that is taking place.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. And hurt the least among us simply to win a political argument? That would be

irresponsible. Look, I work for the federal government and we have witnessed massive cuts in programs that help the poorest of the poor. I am not convinced that going over the cliff was or is a good idea. It is reckless and irresponsible.

[kentuck]

13. I don't think it can be defined as a simple "political argument".

It is much more than that, in my opinion.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. I take your point, but I ask that we think more about the consequences of going

over the cliff.

[kentuck]

16. There would be consequences...

but I tend to agree with those that argue it would be a fiscal "slope" rather than a cliff. I think the PTB, with the corporate media, have fanned a certain panic across the land to serve their own purposes. They do not wish to pay higher income taxes or higher taxes on their dividends or higher estate taxes. We should attempt to stay above their game.

[madrchsod]

3. he`s doing the best he can with what he has

if we had a democratic house it would be a bit different but as the songs says...

"....you can`t always get what you want... but if you try sometimes

you get what you need..."

[earthside]

4. I think that is pretty well established ...

... he is not a good negotiator.

And he is clearly also not a 'closer'.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. Tell me how a better plan--or ANY plan--gets through the House. Then we can talk

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. No one can ...

No one will.

What we have is a bunch of arm-chair Quarterbacks that have convinced themselves that they know, and would do better ... If only they were in the game.

[Bradical79]

5. I don't know

Honestly, like a lot of people, I'm not a good negotiator myself and really won't know how good the President is until all this is finalized.

[dkf]

7. Maybe he doesn't want to be a good negotiator.

Maybe he is more moderate than where his base wants him to be so the only way he gets to where he wants is to appear to lose.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. Tell me a liberal plan gets through the House. Lets have an honest conversation

rather than just blaming the president FIRST without holding the Republicans accountable at all.

[CakeGrrl]

8. Apparently the effect of Teabaggers controlling the House is minimized here.

This POTUS opened the door to HCR that failed in many attempts prior, and is on the verge of reinstating significant tax rates on the wealthy DESPITE nasty Republican opposition.

He's an excellent negotiator.

People can gloat when they put someone in office who manages to best his accomplishments in comparative context.

[kentuck]

12. You make a good argument but...

I don't know if you are in the majority??

[bhikkhu]

15. I don't know if being in the majority would be possible

if you look at how negotiations go, especially if there is, by design, no end to them. Government is, in one way, a long open-ended negotiation. But the "art of the deal" is to make the other side believe they got the better deal, or offer them some hope that a better deal will be had tomorrow by agreeing to a worse deal today.

Both of those have been consistent narratives in Obama's presidency - the repugs agree to a deal and declare victory - but gain little or nothing. And they justify giving up their main principles because their real objectives, one way or another, are to be on the table the next time around, and they imagine they have some kind of advantage.

Consistently, if you look at the actual results of the negotiations, Obama gets his main goals and moves the ball steadily in a good direction. That the other side clings to hope and imagines victory here and there makes it easier. That we fret here about "what Obama really wants" (as so many are convinced he really wants to cut SS, medicare and social programs) is a symptom of what has been a very effective ploy.

[chieftain]

17. I think he was naive during his first term.

That naivete was most obvious in his efforts to bring the GOP on board his stimulus package by loading it with tax cuts/credits. I think he was overly reliant on Max Baucus in the health care debates. Baucus got slow walked backwards in his futile effort to get a bi-partisan deal with people who were not going to do anything that would help the President.
I do think Obama learned from those early missteps and we saw that in this latest negotiation. He bartered from his position on tax classifications and was able to stave off attempts to go to a lower rate by upping the cut off income level. He has also made it clear that if the GOP goes after unacceptable social spending cuts, he will call for more taxes.
I agree with a lot of what you said,Kentuck, but Obama did not hand them another opportunity with the the debt limit. That opportunity was already there. It is sad to say but that ridiculous exercise is always available for GOP and Blue Dog grandstanding.What has turned it from a nuisance of a sideshow is the sad fact that the republicans have become political and economic nihilists. Their hatred of government in general and social programs in particular allows them to openly damage the well-being of the nation.
As Michael Tomasky said today, the president is negotiating with madmen. All of us sideline coaches ought to remember that as we evaluate our President.
This is a good read on the subject. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/01/on-the-fiscal-cliff-obama-does-what-he-can-against-200-years-of-bad-faith.html

[fredamae]

18. Knowing what I do

know about what is going on/what has gone on (understanding we don't know what its like "inside" nor do we know it all) -I wouldn't have budged-I'd have forced this BS to stay on their shoulders from the get-go. It's simply too obvious why the GOP does what it does...I'da left those misbehaving boys and girls in the corner unless and until they emerged behaving like resposible adults willing to protect the government of the people. Period.
Imho-PBO has failed in many ways in his eagerness to concede and compromise at the expense of "us". It wasn't worth it, I believe many knew it wouldn't work, else there wouldn't have been the loud objections from the base..and we keep getting pulled "right-ward".

I would have Ripped off the band-aid-forced their hand out of the gate (post mcconnells stupid "one term" pres mission in feb 2009)-it may have ended a whole lot of hostage taking that followed his 1st inauguration-and certainly Our govt would have been a lot different today.
And why have those who Caused the 2008 crash not been held accountable? That bothers me.

When you reward hostile children and never punish-you lose control.

[savebigbird]

19. Is he a negotiator, quick to compromise, or a strategist?

[fredamae]

28. I admit-I simply haven't figured

that out yet. In studying "the why's" of PBO's presidency, hind-site is a great thing to have in my tool box.
The Learning Curve in politics is not for chickens I have determined that I picked a really hard, unusual time in our country to begin this journey.

[graywarrior]

20. Here's what I've figured out

I don't know shit.

[NRaleighLiberal]

21. How does one separate negotiation skills from actual political leaning/preference?

Americans in part see what they want to see in Obama - and what they do and don't like about his apparent positions relative to their own. But when those of us who wish he were tougher see him give quicker/more often than we like, can we be sure it is just that he is soft - or is he, at the core, just less left than many of us are?

Translated to my current view that NOTHING in politics surprises me any more...and my expectations of any politician are sadly not very high, and dropping with each year I spend on this earth.

[kentuck]

23. Also, Repubs used to accuse Bill Clinton of being a "leftist"..

when he was probably one of the best conservative Presidents of all time. Oh, you disagree?

[NRaleighLiberal]

24. fascinating stuff, isn't it!

happy new year, Kentuck!

[kentuck]

25. Happy New Year !

[whatchamacallit]

22. More Conspirator than Negotiator IMO n/t

[underthematrix]

27. The President is a master of game theory, which

means he knows the right time, the right moves, and the right person to do the job. That's also part of leadership. The president surrounds himself with an awesome team.

[wandy]

29. Given what he has to negotiate with......

Let's face it. The republican side of the negotiations DO NOT have the country best interest at heart. Their objective is to advance the objectives of the people they represent (not necessary the people who voted for them), and protect tax loopholes for already highly profitable corporations.
I suspect President Obama is doing about the best that can be expected considering that he can't use this form of negotiations..

Come to think about it the "leader" does look a bit like a turtle.