Oh well. I was hoping Washington would not be able to make a deal and we could have some real

[RB TexLa]

debt reduction. But, once again we show how, collectively we are nothing but a bunch of selfish pigs who do not want to sacrifice.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. It is not the time for debt reduction.

It is the time for stimulus.

[RB TexLa]

6. "I want now, I want now, I want now"

no, not selfish at all.

[WinkyDink]

13. Transparent.

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. Please explain yourself

I do not understand your point. Are you mimicking Exxon and their desire to continue with their entitlements? Are you talking about the unemployed who are needing their unemployment money...they put in the system? Are you talking about the bridges and roads that need fixing?

What is your point?

[Cleita]

2. We aren't the selfish pigs.

Wall Street is. This is all about them all the time. Our politicians are pretty much in the employ of large international corporations.

[WinkyDink]

3. Who's this "we," White Man?

It's an old, but apt, joke.

[Tx4obama]

4. If there was no vote tonight it would hurt the markets in the morning when they open.

There had to be a vote on the bill tonight and it had to be passed tonight.

[W_HAMILTON]

5. What's funny is...

...this bill actually adds to the deficit and debt:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/01/news/economy/fiscal-cliff-deal-cbo/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Basically the Republicans are getting most of the Bush tax cuts enshrined into tax law permanently, which -- no surprise -- negatively affects our debt, which means the Republicans will demand even greater spending cuts to make up what is going to be an even larger debt.

[bhikkhu]

11. No tax rates are permanent

and we've seen how well sunset provisions work anyway...

[W_HAMILTON]

15. It worked pretty well for the payroll tax cut...

These tax rates are for all intents and purposes permanent. It took this many years, and this much fighting, yet almost all of the "temporary" Bush tax cuts have basically been extended indefinitely (if you prefer that to "permanent&quot . It ain't like you're gonna see income tax rates go even higher in a couple of months when the sequestration / debt ceiling talks begin. This is it for a good while.

[bhikkhu]

19. Well, capital gains goes up, and taxes on $450k and over go up

I think capital gains increases are concentrated in the top 10%, while $450k plus income is about the top 1%, or a little more. So it doesn't sound like a lot of people involved, but there is a great deal of money there at the top!

On the other hand, if taxing the top tier fairly isn't the plan, then what is the plan? You can't bring the increases down too far or you start cutting into real need, and the lower you go, the more people you affect, and the less actual money you're looking at.

I think the deal, as passed, is a reasonable balance.

[W_HAMILTON]

20. It is not a reasonable balance.

It is the largest tax cut in history.

It extends almost all of the Bush tax cuts indefinitely.

It manages to still increase taxes on almost all low and middle class taxpayers by not extending the payroll tax cut.

It does nothing to address to the deficit or debt (and in fact adds to both), which means the eventual debt it brings about will be used as further excuses to cut spending even more drastically in the future.

The Republicans are already claiming this is them compromising and now all future actions must be related to spending cuts, "entitlement reform" (i.e., spending cuts) and "tax reform" (i.e., tax cuts).

And what did we get in return for all of that? A year-long extension of unemployment benefits? Temporary extension of the EITC? That &@*$ we should have gotten by raising the $250k threshold that Obama campaigned on and by raising the estate tax threshold as part of this deal.

[Nye Bevan]

7. So you stand with Eric Cantor, against Bernie Sanders? (nt)

[RB TexLa]

10. So you stand with John Boehner, against Tom Harkin?

See what a stupid game that is?

[budkin]

8. It's always like this...

A bunch of big talk and then... well, this.

[bhikkhu]

9. Sarcasm thingey?

Who do you mean by "we"?

Most people don't have much that they could sacrifice if they wanted to. Some people could sacrifice more, but not many of them are "us"...in any case, real debt reduction will depend on good governance over time. I think we're on the right track.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Where have all the Keynesians gone...long time passing?

[morningfog]

14. Who should make sacrifices? How should they? Be specific.

[immoderate]

16. If it's military spending I'm with you...

If you want people who get inadequate services, from what should be a civilized country, to continue to sacrifice, that's ludicrous.

--imm

[RB TexLa]

17. All spending across the board, all taxes across the board

[immoderate]

21. Well, I did invoke "civilized."

Americans have sacrificed a lot so plutocrats could become more wealthy.

But it's your thread...

--imm