I just spent 10 minutes searching the cobwebbed corners of my memory, writing this response

[Quantess]

to this thread, and in the same instant, Nye Bevan pre-emptively self-deleted his OP. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022136264

Women DO have to watch out. But at the same time, you can never be 100% certain of what's going to happen.

I've never been sexually assaulted, which is something I attribute partly to being wary of certain people and certain situations, and partly to luck. But in the same breath, I am also fully supportive of people who have been sexually assaulted, and not judgmental at all. There is no way to prevent sexual harrassment, and I am here to tell everyone that. I know what it means to be regarded as nothing more than a sexual piece of meat, in terms of sexual harrassment goes.

In High School, I didn't go to those parties where girls got "sleep-bandited". I wasn't invited anyway, because I was too much of a cynical, depressed, angry, bookworm. I went to other weird and wild parties in high school, with edgy kids, but none of those guys were a rapist, at least none that I knew about. I've been to all kinds of crazy, fucked up parties in my life, ended up drunk. There have been plenty of creeps I have encountered, but I could tell they were creeps, and that's probably what saved my ass (no pun intended).

The only time I ever suspected the possibility of a date rape drug was when I was visiting the midwest, age 25, and was all by myself in a nightclub. Two random, obviously conservative, uncool guys who said they were in town for a convention sat down next to me, chatted me up in polite conversation and finally asked me where I was from. San Francisco (the city I lived in at that time). Oh... well... you could tell there was heavy judgment swirling around in their brains, about a young woman from SF, all by herself in some weird club in Chicago with some crappy techno music in the background, with pierced & dyed people flailing around in black pleather outfits, in the background. The conversation turned really annoying and stupid after that, and I excused myself to the ladies room.

When I came back, there was an unexpected pint of beer waiting for me. "No thanks!" I said politely. "I'm going home now", and I got out of there. I chased down the next bus I could find. Nobody will ever know if there was a date rape drug in that beer or not.

[uppityperson]

1. I was raped by my partner many years ago. And groped as a kid but a strange kid on the street.

I was in 5th grade, walking to a friend's house down the street where I lived and a strange kid on his bicycle stopped, ran over, grabbed my chest and crotch, ran back to his bike and rode off. It happened that fast about 4 doors down from my house in a residential neighborhood. Never did tell my parents because it was so sudden and so wtf-ish even then.

Man I lived with raped me in college. Yes, we lived together and had sex before. But he wanted, I said no, he overpowered me and voila.

I've been careful of being in sketchy situations, but the 2 times I was assaulted were not sketchy and at least the second was not a stranger.

I am grateful it was not a person with a knife at my throat, but still I felt betrayed by my partner who thought his being able to hold power over me was more important than I was.

There are ways to keep as safe as you can, but no way to ever totally prevent everything. Or as you put it "Women DO have to watch out. But at the same time, you can never be 100% certain of what's going to happen. "

[Quantess]

2. I am sorry to hear it...

I have also had my chest grabbed, mostly in junior high age, but occasionally older, and have had my crotch grabbed too, several times in my life. I just have filed it under "sexual harrassment" in my own mind. And yes, it pisses me off greatly to this day. I was just 14 when all this suddenly started happening. It felt like assault. But then in High school I got left alone by boys my own age. But I got sexually harrassed a lot anyway, with older men who should have known better.

When I was walking down the street in San Francisco, minding my own business, and get the rude comments gross cat-call noises (cultural stuff here, you readers figure it out) up until the day I moved away, about age 30. Walking home late at night alone (about age 26), some teenage weirdo jumped out from the bushes and wagged his penis, masturbated for a few seconds, then ran away. That pissed me off, too.

It is really disappointing that some men think that once they had sex with you, it's a season pass, or something. For some reason that never happened to me. I don't know, maybe it was my attitude? Or that I just weeded out every single disrespectful or creepy guy? ...but wait, that part wasn't true. Part of it was just luck.

I've probably missed out in some great interactions in life when I was younger, because I was so hypervigilant. Now, I'm middle aged, and I don't really give a shit anymore. I'm a tough old bird, now. But I can still spot a creepy guy in a moment's notice. It could still happen, though.

[PeaceNikki]

4. Many are sick of risk reduction being taught to women AS 'rape prevention'.

Imagine the potential psychological implications if all "rape PREVENTION" is directed at a women who is assaulted. In addition to the trauma of the act, there can be serious emotional turmoil when they are made to feel as if THEY did something wrong.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/06/02/jackson-katz-violence-against-women-is-a-mens-issue

Jackson Katz, an internationally recognized educator on gender violence prevention among men and boys, argues society must first transform how it thinks about violence against women if it wants to prevent these acts from reoccurring. "As a culture, Americans first must take the step in acknowledging that violence against women is not a women's issue, but a men's issue," Katz said.

Another reason why Katz has a problem with people using women's issues to describe violence against women is the issue of perpetration and who is responsible for perpetrating these acts. "Take rape for example," said Katz. "Over 99 percent of rape is perpetrated by men, but it's a women's issue?"

Kats said one underlying problem is that college campuses tend to focus on the prevention of rape and sexual violence. "But the term prevention in not really prevention; rather, it's risk reduction," Katz said. "These programs focus on how women can reduce their chances of being sexually assaulted. I agree that women benefit from these education programs, but let us not mistake this for prevention."

"If a woman has done everything in her power to reduce her risk, then a man who has the proclivity for abuse or need for power will just move on to another woman or target," Katz added. "It's about the guy and his need to assert his power. And it's not just individual men, it's a cultural problem. Our culture is producing violent men, and violence against women has become institutionalized. We need to take a step back and examine the institutionalized polices drafted by men that perpetuate the problem."

[lunasun]

5. +100

[Quantess]

6. I take that back! Sorry, I sometimes scan-read impulsively

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:09 AM - Edit history (2)

especially after a couple of beers. So, see? Judgment can be off after a bit of alcohol. Reading comprehension, too.

There you go!

[PeaceNikki]

7. ?

[Quantess]

8. Thank you for the thoughtful link!

I appreciate it.

Sexual assault and harrassment really is a men's issue, first and foremost. But the question among women is how do we respond to males' hostility and oppression towards women and girls.